<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (high54life @ Jan 26 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GG's IQ doesn't match with the triangle offense.</div> Or the motion offense my 7th/8th grade team runs. This would be a major steal for LA because they get two expiring contracts and a 21-year-old swingman who is worth taking a flyer on in the last year of his rookie contract. This makes absolutely no sense for Minnesota, however. Zero, zilch, nada. The last thing they need is another bad contract, and a player that will hinder the development of their young perimeter players. You guys also mention that LA needs size... well, Minnesota needs size 10x more than any team in the NBA. They are much better off holding onto Theo's deal and letting it expire at the end of this season like they envisioned when they traded KG in the first place. At the same time, while it does look great financially for LA - they want to make a run this year. Trading for Gerald Green and a center who can't put his jersey on without getting injured is not going to help their current direction one bit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jan 26 2008, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He was the primary ball-handler in Miami, but not the primary option. They only started winning consistently when Wade played his way into the rotation and Butler returned from his injury. Odom is great at grabbing a rebound and pushing it up the court with two wing players running the lanes to draw the defense off Odom or for Odom to dish the ball to for a high percentage shot. He doesn't move unless he has the ball in his hands which is why he's a disaster in the Triangle offense. I think he'd be a good fit for Atlanta because of their style of play. They like to get up and down the court, but the problem is their three wing players all have shoot first mentalities. JJ likes to shoot, Josh Smith likes to shoot, and Marvin likes to shoot. He could be the primary ball handler for the Hawks creating shots for JJ, Josh, or Marvin because they move well without the basketball. Odom wouldn't have any pressure to score in Atlanta just like he didn't have any pressure to score in Miami. He was solid for the Lakers once Bynum became the 2nd option and Odom became the 3rd or 4th option (depending on Fisher's hot hand) and didn't have pressure to score. The deal I proposed the only young player they give up is Childress. I agree with you 100%, Minnesota wants no part of Odom and I don't blame them.</div> Atlanta isn't an uptempo team, so I have no idea what you're talking about. They're 24th in points in the NBA, although watching them you wouldn't need to know that to tell that they don't get up and down the court.. Adding Steve Nash to their team might change that (and a coach change), but Lamar Odom certainly won't. And Odom was basically tied with Eddie Jones for leading the team in FG attempts and points that year for Miami.. and as you said he was the primary ballhandler, which translates into being the primary option if you ask me. And you can mince words as much as you would like but he certainly was no lower than 2nd on the food chain on that team--1st by most people's counts. Wade made more of an impact in the playoffs and subsequently when Shaq arrived.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tradebark @ Jan 26 2008, 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jan 26 2008, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He was the primary ball-handler in Miami, but not the primary option. They only started winning consistently when Wade played his way into the rotation and Butler returned from his injury. Odom is great at grabbing a rebound and pushing it up the court with two wing players running the lanes to draw the defense off Odom or for Odom to dish the ball to for a high percentage shot. He doesn't move unless he has the ball in his hands which is why he's a disaster in the Triangle offense. I think he'd be a good fit for Atlanta because of their style of play. They like to get up and down the court, but the problem is their three wing players all have shoot first mentalities. JJ likes to shoot, Josh Smith likes to shoot, and Marvin likes to shoot. He could be the primary ball handler for the Hawks creating shots for JJ, Josh, or Marvin because they move well without the basketball. Odom wouldn't have any pressure to score in Atlanta just like he didn't have any pressure to score in Miami. He was solid for the Lakers once Bynum became the 2nd option and Odom became the 3rd or 4th option (depending on Fisher's hot hand) and didn't have pressure to score. The deal I proposed the only young player they give up is Childress. I agree with you 100%, Minnesota wants no part of Odom and I don't blame them.</div> Atlanta isn't an uptempo team, so I have no idea what you're talking about. They're 24th in points in the NBA, although watching them you wouldn't need to know that to tell that they don't get up and down the court.. Adding Steve Nash to their team might change that (and a coach change), but Lamar Odom certainly won't. And Odom was basically tied with Eddie Jones for leading the team in FG attempts and points that year for Miami.. and as you said he was the primary ballhandler, which translates into being the primary option if you ask me. And you can mince words as much as you would like but he certainly was no lower than 2nd on the food chain on that team--1st by most people's counts. Wade made more of an impact in the playoffs and subsequently when Shaq arrived. </div> The Hawks are an uptempo team just not very good at it. They aren't up and down like the Suns or Warriors, but they push the ball and run a lot of isolation plays. They need a push push player and Odom is exactly that. Rebound the ball and go. Being ranked 24th in points is due to Atlanta being a high turnover team and not very efficient. They are ranked 24th in FG%. Lakers are ranked 3rd in scoring, would you consider them an uptempo team? How about Utah ranked 5th in scoring? I'm not mincing words, but maybe our definition of #1 option is being lost in translation. I'm talking about the #1 option to score the ball not handle the ball. Odom cannot shoulder a team offensively, but is capable of being the primary ball handler to run a fast breaking team.
No, points don't tell the story, but watching them play does. You can look at the highest scoring teams and you will find some that aren't really uptempo, but every uptempo team worth it's salt will be in the upper half of the league if not higher. I watch Atlanta and I don't see a running team at all. Isolation plays yes, running not so much.. They run about as much the average team does to my eyes. Either way, Lamar doesnt change that.. He gets the rebound and goes coast to coast on highlight plays but his game is holding the ball at the top of the key and breaking down his man to make the play.. That's how it was in Miami.. It takes a point guard to control tempo, and though Lamar has good handles for his size, he isn't that. I mean honestly if all you need to make your team uptempo is run the fast break and have a pass-first mentality, there are dozens of underused point guards that will do just that, at a fraction of the cost. Odom brings NOTHING to Atlanta that they don't already have in excess. I can promise you right now that the absolute last thing any Atlanta fan, player, or exec would want is another big 3 or 4 on the team.
Atlanta is trying implement a fast-paced system, they just don't have the point guard to make it successful yet. I don't think trading for Odom is really an ideal situation for them, though, especially with their owners being extremely hesitant to take on large contracts (rumor has it they even turned down Amare, let alone Odom). Even though Odom's deal expires after next season, Atlanta's ownership group simply does not want to go over the luxury tax just yet.
Three-way trade Lakers Trade: Kwame Brown Lamar Odom Ronny Turiaf 1st Rd. Pick Lakers Receive: Gerald Green Zaza Pachulia Theo Ratliff Salim Stoudamire Minnesota Trades: Theo Ratliff Gerald Green Minnesota Receives: Shelden Williams Lamar Odom Atlanta Trades: Zaza Pachulia Salim Stoudamire Shelden Williams Atlanta Receives: Kwame Brown Ronny Turiaf Lakers 1st Rd. Pick I don't see why Minny and LA say no to this trade. Atlanta may, because honestly, I don't know how Salim Stoudamire is playing. So, I threw in a pick to spice up the deal for them, and they get an expiring contract in Kwame Brown. Still, I think Minny would still say yes to my original trade simply because GG is disgruntled, and who's going to offer more than LO? Despite his struggles, he's still a good basketball player, he just may need a change in scenery. Just like he was showing improvement with Bynum, he may play well with Al Jefferson. Still, look for Kupchak to try and pry GG away from Minny. Remember, we almost drafted him instead of Bynum a few years ago.
As I recall, we only used Green as a smoke screen? We aren't going to go after Gerald Green and even if we do, Jim Buss will not let Odom leave for Green.
Mamba, why in the world would you want Zach Randolph? Look at the Knicks and the Blazers, is it a coincidence that the Blazers have been playing so well with the absence of Randolph? Is it a coincidence the Knicks look even worse than last year with Randolph? Z-Bo is absolutely horrible and I don't want him anywhere near this team, not even for Odom. He plays no defense and needs a ton of touches on offense to be successful, which is why the Randolph and Curry duo is disasterous in New York. When Bynum comes back, Randolph will only take away from his touches. Personally, I feel Zach Randolph is another one of those lazy half effort type of player, not to mention he has a pretty big contract as well. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakerman34 @ Jan 26 2008, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Three-way trade Lakers Trade: Kwame Brown Lamar Odom Ronny Turiaf 1st Rd. Pick Lakers Receive: Gerald Green Zaza Pachulia Theo Ratliff Salim Stoudamire Minnesota Trades: Theo Ratliff Gerald Green Minnesota Receives: Shelden Williams Lamar Odom Atlanta Trades: Zaza Pachulia Salim Stoudamire Shelden Williams Atlanta Receives: Kwame Brown Ronny Turiaf Lakers 1st Rd. Pick I don't see why Minny and LA say no to this trade. Atlanta may, because honestly, I don't know how Salim Stoudamire is playing. So, I threw in a pick to spice up the deal for them, and they get an expiring contract in Kwame Brown. Still, I think Minny would still say yes to my original trade simply because GG is disgruntled, and who's going to offer more than LO? Despite his struggles, he's still a good basketball player, he just may need a change in scenery. Just like he was showing improvement with Bynum, he may play well with Al Jefferson. Still, look for Kupchak to try and pry GG away from Minny. Remember, we almost drafted him instead of Bynum a few years ago.</div> I don't see all the love with Gerald Green. He can score, but his basketball IQ is horrible (maybe as bad as Lamar). I've also read that he can't dribble the ball and plays no defense. If you take out Ronny and the 1st round pick, then I'd say you have a deal. Otherwise forget it. If Green is as good as you're making him out to be, we can always make a run at him this offseason, because the Timberwolves didn't pick up his contract (which probably means he isn't doing too well)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 26 2008, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mamba, why in the world would you want Zach Randolph? Look at the Knicks and the Blazers, is it a coincidence that the Blazers have been playing so well with the absence of Randolph? Is it a coincidence the Knicks look even worse than last year with Randolph? Z-Bo is absolutely horrible and I don't want him anywhere near this team, not even for Odom. He plays no defense and needs a ton of touches on offense to be successful, which is why the Randolph and Curry duo is disasterous in New York. When Bynum comes back, Randolph will only take away from his touches. Personally, I feel Zach Randolph is another one of those lazy half effort type of player, not to mention he has a pretty big contract as well. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakerman34 @ Jan 26 2008, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Three-way trade Lakers Trade: Kwame Brown Lamar Odom Ronny Turiaf 1st Rd. Pick Lakers Receive: Gerald Green Zaza Pachulia Theo Ratliff Salim Stoudamire Minnesota Trades: Theo Ratliff Gerald Green Minnesota Receives: Shelden Williams Lamar Odom Atlanta Trades: Zaza Pachulia Salim Stoudamire Shelden Williams Atlanta Receives: Kwame Brown Ronny Turiaf Lakers 1st Rd. Pick I don't see why Minny and LA say no to this trade. Atlanta may, because honestly, I don't know how Salim Stoudamire is playing. So, I threw in a pick to spice up the deal for them, and they get an expiring contract in Kwame Brown. Still, I think Minny would still say yes to my original trade simply because GG is disgruntled, and who's going to offer more than LO? Despite his struggles, he's still a good basketball player, he just may need a change in scenery. Just like he was showing improvement with Bynum, he may play well with Al Jefferson. Still, look for Kupchak to try and pry GG away from Minny. Remember, we almost drafted him instead of Bynum a few years ago.</div> I don't see all the love with Gerald Green. He can score, but his basketball IQ is horrible (maybe as bad as Lamar). I've also read that he can't dribble the ball and plays no defense. If you take out Ronny and the 1st round pick, then I'd say you have a deal. Otherwise forget it. If Green is as good as you're making him out to be, we can always make a run at him this offseason, because the Timberwolves didn't pick up his contract (which probably means he isn't doing too well) </div> I understand where you are coming from, but this kid has such raw talent, he reminds me of a SF version of Jermaine O'Neal. Once he gets on a team that can really use him, I think he can be great. He swept all the awards at the McDonald's All-American games, and he's an athletic freak, even freakier than Trevor Ariza IMO. True, we do lose a ballhandler in LO, but we gain a kid who has the will to score. I think once he gets to know Kobe, he's going to acquire the same personage, a kid who just wants to be the best. Also, if he doesn't do well for us, it's not a big risk because we can just dump his contract this summer. I think the kid has the potential to become a Josh Smith-type player defensively if properly trained, and he has a T-Mac offensive upside. If we let him go, and he becomes very good in the next few years, I'm going to rip the hair out of my head! Just how Telfair and Kwame were drafted to the wrong teams, so was Green, and it's still early enough in his career to make him realize that he has great potential to become an annual all-star in this league. With the Lakers, playing next to Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum, he doesn't feel like he has to do too much, and the Lakers' style of basketball is much more his style. He and Kobe on the open court can be extremely dangerous. The Lakers have nothing to really lose except a player who has underachieved on this team before named Lamar Odom. DO IT MITCH! Also, I completely agree with you, I wouldn't trade a bag of old chips for Zach Randolph. The guy wreaks of attitude problems and cockiness. Not the kind of big I would like to play next to Andrew Bynum.
Why would I want Zach? Because he posts 17 and 10 a game. Because he has a midrange game. Because he's light years better than Lamar Odom. Phil is the absolute best at getting negative attitudes to work out. Zach Randolph would have a chance to win a championship in a lineup that is completely healthy that includes Fisher, Kobe, and Bynum. Teams would not be able to double Bynum with Randolph hear because all Zach has to do is pop out to the midrange game and he is money. Hell, Lamar is so much worse than this cat. He averages 4 less points, 1 less rebound, and only 1 more assist than Randolph in 4 more MPG. He shoots a worse percentage from the field and from the charity stripe, as well. Randolph would have an immediate impact on this team, especially with Bynum down now. To many touches? What the hell do you want then? We used to bitch about Lamar not being aggressive enough. Randolph is averaging 15 shots a game, only 4 more than Lamar. I don't think that is too many, 4 more shots isn't going to make or break the game. Randolph is a top notch offensive post player in the game today and isn't a slouch when it comes to rebounding. I'll gladly take him if we can get rid of Odom. Fisher and Kobe would also be able to keep him in line, as well. Fisher's attitude and mentality has really matured this team, they'd have the same impact on Randolph. Calling Randolph a cancer to the Knicks is a joke, as well. The whole team is piss poor and have absolutely no leadership, you can't single out Randolph. The same goes for Portland, their young players are maturing, especially Roy and Aldridge. The departure of Randolph has a minimal effect on their good fortunes As for Green, if you guys want to call out Randolph's "attitude problems", Green's are absolutely no better. Green is a bum, he thought he could come into the league and sweep it away with his athletic talents...well he has failed miserably. There is a reason why Minnesota didn't extend him...it's because his attitude is piss poor, his skills are very raw, and his defense is non-existant. I'll take a proven player, Randolph, over this hack.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ Jan 26 2008, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Josh Smith on defense and Tracy McGrady on offense???</div> The Josh Smith comparison may be a stretch, but I seriously do think if he lives to his potential, his game is too similar to that of Tracy McGrady's. Let me also remind you, it took some time for T-Mac to come out of his shell as well. On the Raptors, it was all about VC, not T-Mac at all. Not until he was traded to the Magic did he really get a name for himself.
Zach Randolph makes 13 million this year, and has 3-4 years left on his contract. He plays absolutely no lick of defense and is a horrible shot blocker (he's only blocked 6 shots the entire season), and from what I've heard, he's a horrible passer as well. Not to mention he has a bad attitude (I've heard many people call him lazy). If I had a choice, I would much rather hold onto Odom for this season and use his 14 million dollar expiring contract as a trading piece next season. I don't see Randolph bringing much of anything to this team. Say what you want, but I still find it alarming how he could leave Portland, and all of a sudden the Blazers are one of the hottest teams in the league. He comes to New York and all of a sudden, the team somehow regresses even though they acquired a "great" talent. Sorry but I want no part of him. And even if we do make a trade for Randolph, we probably won't have to part ways with Odom to do so. Knick fans hate Randolph, and the front office has already shopped him around this season, and couldn't find any takers. If we want Randolph, we could probably get him for a couple of expirings plus a draft pick.
****, I knew we should have gone for Randolph when we had the chance, as much as I hate him he would of done way better then what Odom is doing. I know Randolph doesn't play good defense but he has that offense that might help the Lakers more then what Odom is doing.And FYI C Bynum PF Randolph >>>>>>>>>>>>> PF Odom SF Walton SG Kobe PG Fisher
Why do we need Randolph to play good defense when Bynum is the defensive anchor in the post? We're finally defensively, it's the post presence that we need to compliment Bynum and Randolph is absolutely perfect.
