<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Jan 27 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 27 2008, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So Collins is (indirectly) blamed for the loss. How surprising. How about the fact that Jason Kidd doesn't give a shit and there is no bench?</div> Dumpy, yes or no question for you. Was leaving Collins in the game on offense a good move? Yes or no? Kidd at least hit 3 big 3s when they needed them and came up with a couple of steals and loose balls. </div> First of all, it is irrelevant, because the Nets were going to lose this game regardless of what Frank did. Forgetting that, I am totally indifferent. Yes, Collins can't score or hit free throws. However, as has been discussed many times over the past few years, there are other ways to contribute to offense, and historically the unit of Kidd-Carter-RJ-Collins has played pretty well together. I haven't looked at the stats, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carter just does better when he is on the floor with Collins. Your front court starters consist of a rookie and a second-year guy who played sparingly as a rookie. You don't think that's a reason the team sucks? How often is a team successful with a starting frontcourt with a total of about 30 games of experience? Collins knows what to do and his role in the offense. How many offensive rebounds did Al Jefferson have today? How many were when Collins was in the game? Collins helps create space for RJ and Carter. Why not blame Kidd for passing him the ball? Besides, what is the alternative? Putting in Boone? Wow, now there's a free-throw shooting machine. Why Bob Thate--the alleged "shooting" coach--doesn't receive any wrath is beyond me. This is the worst shooting team in recent NBA history.
If we decide to rebuild than I think maybe a coach like Phil Webber from Phoenix or Mario Ellie of Dallas...if we chose to promote from our current assistants than Brian Hill would get the nod.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jan 28 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Think we could get hooked up with Samuel L. Jackson? He did a pretty damn good job in Coach Carter.</div> "I'm tired of these motherfuckin players on this motherfuckin team!"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Jan 28 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jan 28 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Think we could get hooked up with Samuel L. Jackson? He did a pretty damn good job in Coach Carter.</div> "I'm tired of these motherfuckin players on this motherfuckin team!" </div> Tate must be Franks brother-in-law (and he told him just act like you are a shooting coach and you know what you're doing. That's what I do!), Frank is Thorn's son-in-law, and Thorn is blackmailing Ratner. This is the only reason I can come up with that any of these people have a job. Look at the players Thorn signed this summer - Maglore, Allen, and Armstrong, all 3 of them are old. He did not even try to improve this team. The only good thing that happened for us was Sean, and he still has a lot of learning to do. I think Thorn doesn't care what happens to this team until we move to Brooklyn and then he thinks he is going to put together the great team. His pride won't let him admit that extending Frank's contract was a big mistake. I think our first move should be to fire the entire coaching staff, except for Hill because he just came back. I don't think they should give Hill the coaching job because he has not done will as a head coach. We need a coach who is a defense specialist. No one on our coaching staff has passed defense 101. One requirement for this new coach should be that he has at least played basketball before, even if was just college.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 27 2008, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jan 27 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Coach; GM; Players. While this team is horribly flawed, I'm not sure that changing all three are necessary. I think a major change to one of those categories is all that is required</div> That is CLEARLY the GM. If Frank gets canned, too, that's fine. A fresh start would be welcome and the new GM should get to pick his own coach. But Thorn better get it first because he has completely and utterly failed at his job. </div> I agree. But shouldn't we also blame the owner who 1) has accepted the team's fall into mediocrity and 2) has handcuffed any potential moves or intelligent bargaining tactics because of his love affair with the team's stars. I think he's doing a great thing moving the team to Brooklyn (although I hate that he's stealing the taxpayer's money to do it) but that just makes him an intelligent real estate and buisiness executive. I don't think he has any idea how to prioritize the issues that confront a basketball team - he's Donald Sterling-esque in this respect.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jan 28 2008, 03:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 27 2008, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jan 27 2008, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Coach; GM; Players. While this team is horribly flawed, I'm not sure that changing all three are necessary. I think a major change to one of those categories is all that is required</div> That is CLEARLY the GM. If Frank gets canned, too, that's fine. A fresh start would be welcome and the new GM should get to pick his own coach. But Thorn better get it first because he has completely and utterly failed at his job. </div> I agree. But shouldn't we also blame the owner who 1) has accepted the team's fall into mediocrity and 2) has handcuffed any potential moves or intelligent bargaining tactics because of his love affair with the team's stars. I think he's doing a great thing moving the team to Brooklyn (although I hate that he's stealing the taxpayer's money to do it) but that just makes him an intelligent real estate and buisiness executive. I don't think he has any idea how to prioritize the issues that confront a basketball team - he's Donald Sterling-esque in this respect. </div> I think it would have be a good buisiness move (with this team) if it were to a city that did not have a NBA team. The Knicks have loyal fans that are going to stick by them even if they are losing. He can't even fill IZOD. When we play the Knicks at home we have more NY fans than Nets fans. A lot of the NJ fans I've talked to are angry they are taking our team. Not many plan on going to Brooklyn. The only way NJ fans are going to follow is if we win a ship or at least the east.
I like Frank, I really do but it's becoming apparent to me that he's the problem. This team has too much talent to lose games like this. I also keep hearing that thorn was waiting for Krstic and Marcus to come back. Well they are nice players but they are not going to be saviors. I think Frank works hard and provides a good analysis of the games. I probably wouldn't mind him as an assistant coach but it seems like he micromanages every play of every game....always barking out instructions. Sooner or later the players will disregard him. Couple that with bad decisions this year such as taking a month or 2 to finally start playing sean and boone. I mean, sean had an 8 block game against the kings and then we didn't see him for the next 2 weeks. What the hell was that? magliore isn't playing either...he left collins in the game instead of Sean Williams against NO and paul comes right down the lane for a layup. I can't blame Thorn. I think he has put together a good roster. His hands are probably tied because of salary issues. That might also play into why they are backing Frank. Didn't he just get a contract extension? maybe they don't want to pay that on top of paying his replacement once he's fired.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kids Play @ Jan 28 2008, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it would have be a good buisiness move (with this team) if it were to a city that did not have a NBA team. The Knicks have loyal fans that are going to stick by them even if they are losing. He can't even fill IZOD. When we play the Knicks at home we have more NY fans than Nets fans. A lot of the NJ fans I've talked to are angry they are taking our team. Not many plan on going to Brooklyn. The only way NJ fans are going to follow is if we win a ship or at least the east.</div> I think attendence will be awesome in Brooklyn...I mean NY is a huge city and has more than enough room for two teams...also Jay-Z alone will sell tickets. Imagine possible halftime performances Jay-Z Beyonce Kanye Fabolous Rihanna Nas I mean with Jay's industry connections he could have superstars playing at everygame...not to mention how many more celebrities and sports figures will come to the games...It will be such a bigger experience than it is currently at the Izod Center.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 27 2008, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Jan 27 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 27 2008, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So Collins is (indirectly) blamed for the loss. How surprising. How about the fact that Jason Kidd doesn't give a shit and there is no bench?</div> Dumpy, yes or no question for you. Was leaving Collins in the game on offense a good move? Yes or no? Kidd at least hit 3 big 3s when they needed them and came up with a couple of steals and loose balls. </div> First of all, it is irrelevant, because the Nets were going to lose this game regardless of what Frank did. Forgetting that, I am totally indifferent. Yes, Collins can't score or hit free throws. However, as has been discussed many times over the past few years, there are other ways to contribute to offense, and historically the unit of Kidd-Carter-RJ-Collins has played pretty well together. I haven't looked at the stats, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carter just does better when he is on the floor with Collins. Your front court starters consist of a rookie and a second-year guy who played sparingly as a rookie. You don't think that's a reason the team sucks? How often is a team successful with a starting frontcourt with a total of about 30 games of experience? Collins knows what to do and his role in the offense. How many offensive rebounds did Al Jefferson have today? How many were when Collins was in the game? Collins helps create space for RJ and Carter. Why not blame Kidd for passing him the ball? Besides, what is the alternative? Putting in Boone? Wow, now there's a free-throw shooting machine. Why Bob Thate--the alleged "shooting" coach--doesn't receive any wrath is beyond me. This is the worst shooting team in recent NBA history. </div> I knew you were not capable of answering a simple yes or no question. Thanks, I just won $50 on that! The alternative was obviously Sean Williams. Or even Malik Allen. Or you give your players instructions to not pass to 30 percent free throw shooters! Also, Al Jefferson had his biggest offensive rebound while Collins was in the game. And what kind of shot did Carter get off with Collins on the floor and they were up 1? A fallaway, off balance clanker. Seriously, just stop, you know nothing about the game, if you don't get why Collins needed to be removed when they were on offense. As I mentioned in the original post, obviously the whole team choked, but that sequence shows why Frank is just completely overmatched on a nightly basis and it's time for him to go. Three of the games on this West Coast trip were winnable, and a case could be made that Lawrence lost them all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Jan 28 2008, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like Frank, I really do but it's becoming apparent to me that he's the problem. This team has too much talent to lose games like this. I also keep hearing that thorn was waiting for Krstic and Marcus to come back. Well they are nice players but they are not going to be saviors. I think Frank works hard and provides a good analysis of the games. I probably wouldn't mind him as an assistant coach but it seems like he micromanages every play of every game....always barking out instructions. Sooner or later the players will disregard him. Couple that with bad decisions this year such as taking a month or 2 to finally start playing sean and boone. I mean, sean had an 8 block game against the kings and then we didn't see him for the next 2 weeks. What the hell was that? magliore isn't playing either...he left collins in the game instead of Sean Williams against NO and paul comes right down the lane for a layup. I can't blame Thorn. I think he has put together a good roster. His hands are probably tied because of salary issues. That might also play into why they are backing Frank. Didn't he just get a contract extension? maybe they don't want to pay that on top of paying his replacement once he's fired.</div> Good point about the New Orleans game. Another game lost specifically because of Frank's inability to remove Collins from the game at a crucial juncture, just like last night. Nice to see he learns from his mistakes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Jan 28 2008, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 27 2008, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Jan 27 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jan 27 2008, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So Collins is (indirectly) blamed for the loss. How surprising. How about the fact that Jason Kidd doesn't give a shit and there is no bench?</div> Dumpy, yes or no question for you. Was leaving Collins in the game on offense a good move? Yes or no? Kidd at least hit 3 big 3s when they needed them and came up with a couple of steals and loose balls. </div> First of all, it is irrelevant, because the Nets were going to lose this game regardless of what Frank did. Forgetting that, I am totally indifferent. Yes, Collins can't score or hit free throws. However, as has been discussed many times over the past few years, there are other ways to contribute to offense, and historically the unit of Kidd-Carter-RJ-Collins has played pretty well together. I haven't looked at the stats, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Carter just does better when he is on the floor with Collins. Your front court starters consist of a rookie and a second-year guy who played sparingly as a rookie. You don't think that's a reason the team sucks? How often is a team successful with a starting frontcourt with a total of about 30 games of experience? Collins knows what to do and his role in the offense. How many offensive rebounds did Al Jefferson have today? How many were when Collins was in the game? Collins helps create space for RJ and Carter. Why not blame Kidd for passing him the ball? Besides, what is the alternative? Putting in Boone? Wow, now there's a free-throw shooting machine. Why Bob Thate--the alleged "shooting" coach--doesn't receive any wrath is beyond me. This is the worst shooting team in recent NBA history. </div> I knew you were not capable of answering a simple yes or no question. Thanks, I just won $50 on that! The alternative was obviously Sean Williams. Or even Malik Allen. Or you give your players instructions to not pass to 30 percent free throw shooters! Also, Al Jefferson had his biggest offensive rebound while Collins was in the game. And what kind of shot did Carter get off with Collins on the floor and they were up 1? A fallaway, off balance clanker. Seriously, just stop, you know nothing about the game, if you don't get why Collins needed to be removed when they were on offense. As I mentioned in the original post, obviously the whole team choked, but that sequence shows why Frank is just completely overmatched on a nightly basis and it's time for him to go. Three of the games on this West Coast trip were winnable, and a case could be made that Lawrence lost them all. </div> Of course I'm incapable of answering "yes" or "no." That's a sucker bet. And don't ever insult me again.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Jan 28 2008, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I probably wouldn't mind him as an assistant coach but it seems like he micromanages every play of every game....always barking out instructions. Sooner or later the players will disregard him.</div> This is my biggest pet peeve with Frank. He doesn't ever just let his players play. They always have to multitask, listening to him with one ear and trying to follow the action on the court with the other. I think it's fine for him to bark out the opponent's play when that team has the ball to make sure everyone recognizes it and how they want to defend it. But on offense, the constant calling of plays from the bench must get annoying and embarrassing, especially for the older players and for guys like Kidd, who live in the moment on the court and can see things developing that have nothing to do with set plays.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jan 28 2008, 03:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Geno Auriema! (runs)</div> Don't make me start my Pat Summitt thread again. (although, I'm not sure if you were around for that one) Edit: Just checked and yes you were around. In fact, your first post in the thread received this comment from ghoti <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>This post is wrong in every possible way.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jan 28 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Jan 28 2008, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I probably wouldn't mind him as an assistant coach but it seems like he micromanages every play of every game....always barking out instructions. Sooner or later the players will disregard him.</div> This is my biggest pet peeve with Frank. He doesn't ever just let his players play. They always have to multitask, listening to him with one ear and trying to follow the action on the court with the other. I think it's fine for him to bark out the opponent's play when that team has the ball to make sure everyone recognizes it and how they want to defend it. But on offense, the constant calling of plays from the bench must get annoying and embarrassing, especially for the older players and for guys like Kidd, who live in the moment on the court and can see things developing that have nothing to do with set plays. </div> Yup, he's a micro-manager. The world hates micro-managers. And when a boss becomes a micro-manager he is despised and mocked by his employers. This truth is universal. And what's the point in calling out an opposing teams' plays when you haven't designed a D to counteract it? Look at last night, he doubled Al Jefferson and left McCants open, playing right into Minny's hands. Up 7 with 80 seconds left; when an open 3 is the last thing you want to give up! If Jefferson got two, fine, but don't give up 3. And they they did it again the next time down. Just no understanding of clock and situation. Very Herm Edwards-esque.
lol I remember that one all right. I still maintain that it would be a horrible idea. That was a summer-time thread right? Ah, gotta love the offseason
