Two questions about the Nets front office. I'm curious what the general consensus is among the Nets fans and followers here.
As far as I'm concerned no one in this organization knows what the hell they are doing. From the Rat to Jason Kidd.
Hard to tell based on what we know. Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints). We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.
As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div> I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change.
well lets see, a few years ago boston offered al jefferson, the guy who just dropped 40/20 on us for richard jefferson and thorn turned it down. says it all right there
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to tell based on what we know. Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints). We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.</div> outside of the kidd and boki trade, what other trade has he done well on? someone posted this on a different forum but even with MJ, thorn couldnt build a good team in chicago until krause fired him and brought in key role players that won titles. thorn has turned down many trades that would be better now, so i dont get ow he does well in trades when he turns them down and the players start playing well while ours dont
Too much is concerned about the move and not now. I think that's what Jason Kidd finally realized when he has to go to Brooklyn events that he most likely won't even be apart of.
I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to tell based on what we know. Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints). We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.</div> outside of the kidd and boki trade, what other trade has he done well on? someone posted this on a different forum but even with MJ, thorn couldnt build a good team in chicago until krause fired him and brought in key role players that won titles. thorn has turned down many trades that would be better now, so i dont get ow he does well in trades when he turns them down and the players start playing well while ours dont </div> We don't know for certain what trades he's turned down... a lot of speculation. Getting Carter was a good trade. Not turning around and trading him after he increased his value was bad. When he came in he was on fire... hire Scott, draft Martin, trade for Kidd, trade Eddie Griffin pick for Jefferson and Collins. Maybe that's the beauty of coming into a team from the outside... you have no loyalty to anyone and you see everything objectively?
I split my vote. Yes I trust that they can rebuild well: Thron was able to take a shitty Nets team into a team that went to the finals twice in a short amount of time so I know he knows how to get pieces, and kikipedia can clear cap. No I don't think we'll get valuable assets back; how do I differ on my votes? Because I think the front office will do the best job they can. Can being determined by the market for Kidd and Carter, which is sure as shot due to bad contracts and a desperation to rebuild.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div> I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change. </div> Why would he walk away from the money? -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div> yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Jan 28 2008, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div> I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change. </div> Why would he walk away from the money? -Petey </div> I'm assuming 2 things: 1) he has plenty of money and 2) that there is an enormous amount of frustration in not being allowed to do what he wants. Sometimes a job can be so frustrating that it's not worth any amount of money, especially if you have enough. There's a value to respect too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div> yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki </div> How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space? I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div> yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki </div> How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space? I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver </div> thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\ FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA.
Can someone bring up NI's Thorn report card? For the most part it's spot on. He's made a few terrific moves, but the majority of his moves are poor.
My vote was split. I answered no to the second one because it is hardly possible to get full value back from trading stars.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div> yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki </div> How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space? I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver </div> thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\ FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA. </div> No, the point I was making was about blowing up a roster. Thorn did no such thing. 3 of the players that were key components of the Nets first NBA Finals team missed significant time due to injuries the season before including KK who missed the entire season. I love revisionist history. Kiki didn't pass up any chance at spending money on Manu as Manu told him that he was going to stay in San Antonio. Manu took less than the Nuggets offered to stay there too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div> yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki </div> How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space? I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver </div> thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\ FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA. </div> No, the point I was making was about blowing up a roster. Thorn did no such thing. 3 of the players that were key components of the Nets first NBA Finals team missed significant time due to injuries the season before including KK who missed the entire season. I love revisionist history. Kiki didn't pass up any chance at spending money on Manu as Manu told him that he was going to stay in San Antonio. Manu took less than the Nuggets offered to stay there too. </div> Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both. After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.
