How much do you trust this front office?

Two questions about the Nets front office. I'm curious what the general consensus is among the Nets fans and followers here.

As far as I'm concerned no one in this organization knows what the hell they are doing. From the Rat to Jason Kidd.

Hard to tell based on what we know.

Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints).

We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.

As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div>
I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change.

well lets see, a few years ago boston offered al jefferson, the guy who just dropped 40/20 on us for richard jefferson and thorn turned it down. says it all right there

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to tell based on what we know.

Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints).

We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.</div>
outside of the kidd and boki trade, what other trade has he done well on? someone posted this on a different forum but even with MJ, thorn couldnt build a good team in chicago until krause fired him and brought in key role players that won titles. thorn has turned down many trades that would be better now, so i dont get ow he does well in trades when he turns them down and the players start playing well while ours dont

Too much is concerned about the move and not now. I think that's what Jason Kidd finally realized when he has to go to Brooklyn events that he most likely won't even be apart of.

I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hard to tell based on what we know.

Thorn is batting about .500 with drafts. Does well in trades and sucks at free agency (although he's always a bottom feeder due to financial constraints).

We have no idea what other teams have been offering for players. If we knew about some offers that they turned down we can tell whether or not they're capable. Also don't have any idea of what their philosophy is towards rebuilding since it hasn't been done here in 7 years.</div>
outside of the kidd and boki trade, what other trade has he done well on? someone posted this on a different forum but even with MJ, thorn couldnt build a good team in chicago until krause fired him and brought in key role players that won titles. thorn has turned down many trades that would be better now, so i dont get ow he does well in trades when he turns them down and the players start playing well while ours dont
</div>
We don't know for certain what trades he's turned down... a lot of speculation.

Getting Carter was a good trade. Not turning around and trading him after he increased his value was bad.

When he came in he was on fire... hire Scott, draft Martin, trade for Kidd, trade Eddie Griffin pick for Jefferson and Collins. Maybe that's the beauty of coming into a team from the outside... you have no loyalty to anyone and you see everything objectively?

I split my vote. Yes I trust that they can rebuild well: Thron was able to take a shitty Nets team into a team that went to the finals twice in a short amount of time so I know he knows how to get pieces, and kikipedia can clear cap.

No I don't think we'll get valuable assets back; how do I differ on my votes? Because I think the front office will do the best job they can. Can being determined by the market for Kidd and Carter, which is sure as shot due to bad contracts and a desperation to rebuild.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div>
I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change.
</div>

Why would he walk away from the money?

-Petey

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Jan 28 2008, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As we have seen they overpaid for VC and that was an ownership decision. I think Thorn preferred to give him a 3 year deal. I think eventually Thorn's just going to call it a day. I mean Ratner's becoming the Al Davis of the NBA. So with this desire to sell tickets...Rat needs to interfere in hoops decisions......no trust, none at all, as long as the basic thought is to sell tickets. If you allow Thorn the rope to build a winning team, then I'd trust, but as long as his arms are tied....</div>
I was thinking pretty much the same thing today. Wouldn't be surprised if Thorn quiting out of frustration is the first major change.
</div>

Why would he walk away from the money?

-Petey
</div>
I'm assuming 2 things: 1) he has plenty of money and 2) that there is an enormous amount of frustration in not being allowed to do what he wants. Sometimes a job can be so frustrating that it's not worth any amount of money, especially if you have enough. There's a value to respect too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki
</div>

How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space?

I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki
</div>

How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space?

I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver
</div>
thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\

FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA.

Can someone bring up NI's Thorn report card? For the most part it's spot on. He's made a few terrific moves, but the majority of his moves are poor.

My vote was split. I answered no to the second one because it is hardly possible to get full value back from trading stars.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki
</div>

How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space?

I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver
</div>
thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\

FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA.
</div>

No, the point I was making was about blowing up a roster. Thorn did no such thing. 3 of the players that were key components of the Nets first NBA Finals team missed significant time due to injuries the season before including KK who missed the entire season.

I love revisionist history. Kiki didn't pass up any chance at spending money on Manu as Manu told him that he was going to stay in San Antonio. Manu took less than the Nuggets offered to stay there too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 28 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
yeah and thorn did the same thing and look where it got us. you hated Kiki
</div>

How and when did Thorn take a team that was in cap hell and get them into having tons of cap space?

I don't hate Kiki, but I'm well aware of the multiple mistakes he made as GM in Denver
</div>
thorn cleaned up a bad situation by making an influx of trades (his only decent ones) and turning the team into a contender at the right time, which matches the point you were making. now, by sitting on his hands all this time and not keeping up with the times of the game\

FYI, kiki got the nugs out of samary cap hell but he spent all of it on Kmart while he passed up the chance to sign ginobili when he was a FA.
</div>

No, the point I was making was about blowing up a roster. Thorn did no such thing. 3 of the players that were key components of the Nets first NBA Finals team missed significant time due to injuries the season before including KK who missed the entire season.

I love revisionist history. Kiki didn't pass up any chance at spending money on Manu as Manu told him that he was going to stay in San Antonio. Manu took less than the Nuggets offered to stay there too.
</div>
Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both.

After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both.

After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.</div>

I don't believe that everyone has to be purged from the Nets in order for the team to improve, however, there is an underwhelming lack of talent on the team. The Nets have some players that were good value picks for their draft spots, but look around the NBA and see how many good teams are lead by players that weren't picked very early in the lottery. The Lakers are a one off, but we know teams wanted to pick Kobe earlier in the draft.

By no means am I saying that getting a high lottery pick guarantees success, but you need the best players to win. Even Detroit has Billups (#3 pick), Sheed (#4 pick) and Rip (#7 pick). If you remove Kidd and Vince from the Nets, who do you have left?

Yes a successful team could hinge on a few players, but those have to be some very special players.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both.

After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.</div>

I don't believe that everyone has to be purged from the Nets in order for the team to improve, however, there is an underwhelming lack of talent on the team. The Nets have some players that were good value picks for their draft spots, but look around the NBA and see how many good teams are lead by players that weren't picked very early in the lottery. The Lakers are a one off, but we know teams wanted to pick Kobe earlier in the draft.

By no means am I saying that getting a high lottery pick guarantees success, but you need the best players to win. Even Detroit has Billups (#3 pick), Sheed (#4 pick) and Rip (#7 pick). If you remove Kidd and Vince from the Nets, who do you have left?

Yes a successful team could hinge on a few players, but those have to be some very special players.
</div>


Finally someone with some sense

We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.</div>



ummm you know you say this all the time but where is your proof.

The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.

The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?

The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship

The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.

The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.

The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.

The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.
you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.

In the words of cp

no matter how many times you say how many sites you post on. It's not true or makes sense

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.</div>


They haven't made it out of the first round since 01-02. They haven't made the playoffs in three years. They have yet to do anything. Let's see if they can win a playoff series before we declare them great.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?</div>


Who!? Zach Randolph?!?! He's no star. He's a bum. Blazers haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and haven't gotten out of the first round since 2000.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship</div>


Grant Hill left through free agency, did he not? They didn't gut anything. He just left and they worked out a sign and trade for a good big man and a guard.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.</div>


The Magic have not gotten out of the first round in over 10 years. They have missed the playoffs entirely in 5 of those years and when they did get lucky and made the playoffs, they got clobbered in the 1st Round every time. It was rarely a competitive series. They would get swept or win 1 game. I still don't think they are that good either. They have come back down to earth after the quick start. Let's see if they can finally win a playoff series this year.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.</div>

That's because Kobe is there. They didn't gut their team completely. They kept their best player, even through bad times. Hell, they didn't even give Shaq away. They actually tried to get a collection of good pieces in return. Kobe didn't like all those pieces, but that's besides the point.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.</div>


With the exception of '01-02, the Bucks have not made it out of the first round since 1989!! Since 1990, they have missed the playoffs nearly every single year, and in the very few years they did make the playoffs, they got clobbered.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.</div>


They've missed the playoffs almost every single year they've been in existence. Wow, they made it last year, but who cares. They got beat badly in the first round by us. Yeah, it went to 6 games but it shouldn't have. By the first quarter of Games 3 and 4, we had already blown them out.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.</div>


None of these things that you posted are examples of teams gutting themselves almost entirely and then becoming great again within the next 5 or 10 years. And out of all the franchises you mentioned, they all haven't done ANYTHING in the past like 10 years except Detroit, who never gutted anything. The rest of them struggle to make the playoffs, or get out of the first round, on a yearly basis. I will stand by my opinion that "gutting the team" and "rebuilding" totally sucks.

Why would anyone assume Thorn is going anywhere?

The owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. His agenda is something far different.

Thorn already made the decision that his salary is more important than his integrity, so he will sit by and continue to do nothing while the Nets become a joke.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.</div>



ummm you know you say this all the time but where is your proof.

The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.

The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?

The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship

The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.

The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.

The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.

The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.
you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.

In the words of cp

no matter how many times you say how many sites you post on. It's not true or makes sense
</div>

You can't get blood from a stone. No matter what you say there will be warped "logic" in reply that only makes sense to the author and if you attempt to reply to it will only end up completely off topic. Denial is powerful tool for the obsessed.

it's impossible to respond to the poll. Do I "trust" the front office to rebuild the team? I don't know what that means. They will have 14 or so players. What does "rebuild" mean? Do I think they will get value for their assets? Value is waht someone will pay. How can I make assumptions about the value of the Nets players and expect rival GMs to agree with me? Finally, the salary cap/luxury cap is a tremendous constraint.

I'll ask another question: If the Nets trade all their star (ha ha) players and attempt to rebuild through young, unproven players and draft picks, do you think that the Nets front office will make wise enough personnel decisions so that they will be able to contend for the division title in five years or less?

Answer: No.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 06:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.</div>


They haven't made it out of the first round since 01-02. They haven't made the playoffs in three years. They have yet to do anything. Let's see if they can win a playoff series before we declare them great.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?</div>


Who!? Zach Randolph?!?! He's no star. He's a bum. Blazers haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and haven't gotten out of the first round since 2000.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship</div>




Grant Hill left through free agency, did he not? They didn't gut anything. He just left and they worked out a sign and trade for a good big man and a guard.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.</div>


The Magic have not gotten out of the first round in over 10 years. They have missed the playoffs entirely in 5 of those years and when they did get lucky and made the playoffs, they got clobbered in the 1st Round every time. It was rarely a competitive series. They would get swept or win 1 game. I still don't think they are that good either. They have come back down to earth after the quick start. Let's see if they can finally win a playoff series this year.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.</div>

That's because Kobe is there. They didn't gut their team completely. They kept their best player, even through bad times. Hell, they didn't even give Shaq away. They actually tried to get a collection of good pieces in return. Kobe didn't like all those pieces, but that's besides the point.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.</div>


With the exception of '01-02, the Bucks have not made it out of the first round since 1989!! Since 1990, they have missed the playoffs nearly every single year, and in the very few years they did make the playoffs, they got clobbered.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.</div>


They've missed the playoffs almost every single year they've been in existence. Wow, they made it last year, but who cares. They got beat badly in the first round by us. Yeah, it went to 6 games but it shouldn't have. By the first quarter of Games 3 and 4, we had already blown them out.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.</div>


None of these things that you posted are examples of teams gutting themselves almost entirely and then becoming great again within the next 5 or 10 years. And out of all the franchises you mentioned, they all haven't done ANYTHING in the past like 10 years except Detroit, who never gutted anything. The rest of them struggle to make the playoffs, or get out of the first round, on a yearly basis. I will stand by my opinion that "gutting the team" and "rebuilding" totally sucks.
</div>


see this is the thing that always makes your point makes no sense. All the teams I have named parted with their stars. The Nets are talking about trading their star. Now you said out of all the franchise they have done nothing. You are judging their success by what they done in the playoffs.

This what in the kindest way I can put it. Shows you do not know what you are talking about because what have the Nets done in the playoffs? Oh yea lose in the second round twice. get swept by the Heat. The Nets haven't made it out of the second round since 2003 so if you use playoffs to gauge success where does that put the Nets??


No one is talking about gutting the Nets we are talking about getting rid of Kidd. See you are being a homer. You judgment see get rid of one player equals in gutting the team. As Cpawfan said you will have this logic because you love kidd and you said yourself. You a grown man would cry a week if the Nets trade a player you never met or has never contribute to your life.


I understand you have your opinions but don't try to state your opinions as facts because there is history that proves you wrong.

Kidd's my fav player but I love this team. **** the name on the back it's all about the one in the front. I'm ride with the Nets no matter the record, who is on the team or where they are.


one monkey don't stop the show.

Bottom line.

Thorn had a championship caliber player. He didn't put together a championship roster around him. Not even close.

He had PLENTY of opportunity to maximize his assets and surround Kidd with the right pieces and he completely blew it every time.

Now Kidd is furious at him and demanding a trade and the team is a mess.

Not only that, but he seriously damaged the future of the franchise by needlessly committing long-term money to Vince Carter.

The owner he temporarily placated by doing that is growing increasingly frustrated, so that move probably will backfire on him, too.

Good. He deserves it for being spineless in the first place.