<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both. After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.</div> I don't believe that everyone has to be purged from the Nets in order for the team to improve, however, there is an underwhelming lack of talent on the team. The Nets have some players that were good value picks for their draft spots, but look around the NBA and see how many good teams are lead by players that weren't picked very early in the lottery. The Lakers are a one off, but we know teams wanted to pick Kobe earlier in the draft. By no means am I saying that getting a high lottery pick guarantees success, but you need the best players to win. Even Detroit has Billups (#3 pick), Sheed (#4 pick) and Rip (#7 pick). If you remove Kidd and Vince from the Nets, who do you have left? Yes a successful team could hinge on a few players, but those have to be some very special players.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 28 2008, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the only way to fix this is to get rid of every player on the team? If a few moves could fix that team a few moves maybe able to fix this one. Could be one or two trades away. Maybe it's Kidd or Carter or maybe it's both. After watching the Celtics I learned a team can hinge on just a few players and above all else chemistry. A lot of people thought that team would be too thin and inexperienced outside of the top 3 guys, but they are playing great. The Nets have bad chemistry right now.</div> I don't believe that everyone has to be purged from the Nets in order for the team to improve, however, there is an underwhelming lack of talent on the team. The Nets have some players that were good value picks for their draft spots, but look around the NBA and see how many good teams are lead by players that weren't picked very early in the lottery. The Lakers are a one off, but we know teams wanted to pick Kobe earlier in the draft. By no means am I saying that getting a high lottery pick guarantees success, but you need the best players to win. Even Detroit has Billups (#3 pick), Sheed (#4 pick) and Rip (#7 pick). If you remove Kidd and Vince from the Nets, who do you have left? Yes a successful team could hinge on a few players, but those have to be some very special players. </div> Finally someone with some sense
We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.</div> ummm you know you say this all the time but where is your proof. The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league. The Blazers traded their star how have they been since? The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center. The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq. The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog. The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC. you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally. In the words of cp no matter how many times you say how many sites you post on. It's not true or makes sense
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.</div> They haven't made it out of the first round since 01-02. They haven't made the playoffs in three years. They have yet to do anything. Let's see if they can win a playoff series before we declare them great. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?</div> Who!? Zach Randolph?!?! He's no star. He's a bum. Blazers haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and haven't gotten out of the first round since 2000. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship</div> Grant Hill left through free agency, did he not? They didn't gut anything. He just left and they worked out a sign and trade for a good big man and a guard. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.</div> The Magic have not gotten out of the first round in over 10 years. They have missed the playoffs entirely in 5 of those years and when they did get lucky and made the playoffs, they got clobbered in the 1st Round every time. It was rarely a competitive series. They would get swept or win 1 game. I still don't think they are that good either. They have come back down to earth after the quick start. Let's see if they can finally win a playoff series this year. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.</div> That's because Kobe is there. They didn't gut their team completely. They kept their best player, even through bad times. Hell, they didn't even give Shaq away. They actually tried to get a collection of good pieces in return. Kobe didn't like all those pieces, but that's besides the point. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.</div> With the exception of '01-02, the Bucks have not made it out of the first round since 1989!! Since 1990, they have missed the playoffs nearly every single year, and in the very few years they did make the playoffs, they got clobbered. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.</div> They've missed the playoffs almost every single year they've been in existence. Wow, they made it last year, but who cares. They got beat badly in the first round by us. Yeah, it went to 6 games but it shouldn't have. By the first quarter of Games 3 and 4, we had already blown them out. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.</div> None of these things that you posted are examples of teams gutting themselves almost entirely and then becoming great again within the next 5 or 10 years. And out of all the franchises you mentioned, they all haven't done ANYTHING in the past like 10 years except Detroit, who never gutted anything. The rest of them struggle to make the playoffs, or get out of the first round, on a yearly basis. I will stand by my opinion that "gutting the team" and "rebuilding" totally sucks.
Why would anyone assume Thorn is going anywhere? The owner doesn't care if the team wins or not. His agenda is something far different. Thorn already made the decision that his salary is more important than his integrity, so he will sit by and continue to do nothing while the Nets become a joke.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We can't gut the team entirely (we can trade one of the Big 3, but not all of them, unless something awesome is coming.... but trading Kidd would be the absolute worst nightmare scenario possible because you know Carter will give up then as well) and expect to be any good for probably at least the next 10-15 years. That is why you don't see NBA franchises gutting themselves completely. It's a downright stupid move. Everything spirals out of control. Good free agents avoid your crap team like the plague, no matter how much cap space you have. Hell, even draft picks may try to avoid you and refuse to work out for your joke of a team. Nothing good comes out of gutting a team. I don't know about you, but I'd like to see the Nets make the playoffs again before I'm a senior citizen.</div> ummm you know you say this all the time but where is your proof. The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league. The Blazers traded their star how have they been since? The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center. The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq. The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog. The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC. you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally. In the words of cp no matter how many times you say how many sites you post on. It's not true or makes sense </div> You can't get blood from a stone. No matter what you say there will be warped "logic" in reply that only makes sense to the author and if you attempt to reply to it will only end up completely off topic. Denial is powerful tool for the obsessed.
it's impossible to respond to the poll. Do I "trust" the front office to rebuild the team? I don't know what that means. They will have 14 or so players. What does "rebuild" mean? Do I think they will get value for their assets? Value is waht someone will pay. How can I make assumptions about the value of the Nets players and expect rival GMs to agree with me? Finally, the salary cap/luxury cap is a tremendous constraint. I'll ask another question: If the Nets trade all their star (ha ha) players and attempt to rebuild through young, unproven players and draft picks, do you think that the Nets front office will make wise enough personnel decisions so that they will be able to contend for the division title in five years or less? Answer: No.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiddisanet @ Jan 29 2008, 06:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killa kadafi191 @ Jan 29 2008, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Hornets gutted their team and they're sitting at number 1 in the league.</div> They haven't made it out of the first round since 01-02. They haven't made the playoffs in three years. They have yet to do anything. Let's see if they can win a playoff series before we declare them great. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Blazers traded their star how have they been since?</div> Who!? Zach Randolph?!?! He's no star. He's a bum. Blazers haven't made the playoffs in 4 years and haven't gotten out of the first round since 2000. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Pistons lost grant hill and receive the pieces to win a championship</div> Grant Hill left through free agency, did he not? They didn't gut anything. He just left and they worked out a sign and trade for a good big man and a guard. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic trade T-mac and many roles players and now sit at number 3 with most dominate player at center.</div> The Magic have not gotten out of the first round in over 10 years. They have missed the playoffs entirely in 5 of those years and when they did get lucky and made the playoffs, they got clobbered in the 1st Round every time. It was rarely a competitive series. They would get swept or win 1 game. I still don't think they are that good either. They have come back down to earth after the quick start. Let's see if they can finally win a playoff series this year. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers are currently getting back on track after trading Shaq.</div> That's because Kobe is there. They didn't gut their team completely. They kept their best player, even through bad times. Hell, they didn't even give Shaq away. They actually tried to get a collection of good pieces in return. Kobe didn't like all those pieces, but that's besides the point. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Bucks made it to playoffs after parting with Cassell Allen and Big dog.</div> With the exception of '01-02, the Bucks have not made it out of the first round since 1989!! Since 1990, they have missed the playoffs nearly every single year, and in the very few years they did make the playoffs, they got clobbered. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Raptors have made it back to playoffs since VC.</div> They've missed the playoffs almost every single year they've been in existence. Wow, they made it last year, but who cares. They got beat badly in the first round by us. Yeah, it went to 6 games but it shouldn't have. By the first quarter of Games 3 and 4, we had already blown them out. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you say this all the time but it makes no sense. We all know you love but please don't let it be the reason you are not thinking rationally.</div> None of these things that you posted are examples of teams gutting themselves almost entirely and then becoming great again within the next 5 or 10 years. And out of all the franchises you mentioned, they all haven't done ANYTHING in the past like 10 years except Detroit, who never gutted anything. The rest of them struggle to make the playoffs, or get out of the first round, on a yearly basis. I will stand by my opinion that "gutting the team" and "rebuilding" totally sucks. </div> see this is the thing that always makes your point makes no sense. All the teams I have named parted with their stars. The Nets are talking about trading their star. Now you said out of all the franchise they have done nothing. You are judging their success by what they done in the playoffs. This what in the kindest way I can put it. Shows you do not know what you are talking about because what have the Nets done in the playoffs? Oh yea lose in the second round twice. get swept by the Heat. The Nets haven't made it out of the second round since 2003 so if you use playoffs to gauge success where does that put the Nets?? No one is talking about gutting the Nets we are talking about getting rid of Kidd. See you are being a homer. You judgment see get rid of one player equals in gutting the team. As Cpawfan said you will have this logic because you love kidd and you said yourself. You a grown man would cry a week if the Nets trade a player you never met or has never contribute to your life. I understand you have your opinions but don't try to state your opinions as facts because there is history that proves you wrong. Kidd's my fav player but I love this team. **** the name on the back it's all about the one in the front. I'm ride with the Nets no matter the record, who is on the team or where they are. one monkey don't stop the show.
Bottom line. Thorn had a championship caliber player. He didn't put together a championship roster around him. Not even close. He had PLENTY of opportunity to maximize his assets and surround Kidd with the right pieces and he completely blew it every time. Now Kidd is furious at him and demanding a trade and the team is a mess. Not only that, but he seriously damaged the future of the franchise by needlessly committing long-term money to Vince Carter. The owner he temporarily placated by doing that is growing increasingly frustrated, so that move probably will backfire on him, too. Good. He deserves it for being spineless in the first place.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jan 28 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've brought it up before. Kiki did one thing well as a GM and that was clean up a bad situation. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the hatchet man and Thorn steps down soon.</div>
