My friends and I keep arguing it. I'm backing Kobe, everyone else is on Lebron's nuts. What your thoughts on this?? I could use more thoughts for drunken arguements. I always like to get the crowd all quiet and thinking hard!
- accomplished more at the age of 23 - kobe has a smaller physique but dominates the game just like lebron - no one (in terms of size) can match up to lebron (PG, SG, SF are to smalle and PF and C are too big and slow to guard him) but Kobe can still dominate any defender he goes up against just the same Trench, ask your friend what would happen if kobe were also 6'8 like lebron OR better yet, what would happen if Lebron was 6 - 4/5 like Kobe
I think defense is really the one thing that Kobe's still got over Lebron. Aside from that, its pretty even.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Jan 31 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe's Defense Kobe's range on his jumper Kobe's consistency on his jumper</div> Those can be cancelled out by Lebron's dunking, Lebron's strength, and Lebron's better fg% Both have their +'s and -'s...
Those are not canceled out by LeBron's dunking because Kobe gets to the rim just as easy as LeBron and finishes at the hoop just as easy. Kobe would be a much better at driving the lane than LeBron if he could lower his shoulder and charge people out of the way.
Kobe Bryant 3 rings ends all arguments. LeBron calls Kobe the best player on the planet. It's really not fair to compare careers at this point because Kobe has been in the league a lot longer. I'll admit LeBron has vastly improved his game this year and is unstoppable on offense when he commits to driving to the rim. He's just a physical freak of nature who knows how to use his speed and strength to run through people and finish. He's improved in every aspect of his game including the defensive end. Fundamentally Kobe is head and shoulders a better player than LeBron. Everything Kobe does is fluid and he doesn't rely on his athleticism the same way LeBron does to get shots.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Jan 31 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those are not canceled out by LeBron's dunking because Kobe gets to the rim just as easy as LeBron and finishes at the hoop just as easy. Kobe would be a much better at driving the lane than LeBron if he could lower his shoulder and charge people out of the way.</div> Hey man, with all due respect, NO, Kobe does not get to the rim as easily as LeBron. If Lebron gains momentum and blows by his defender thats almost a certain poster if you try to contest. Whereas Kobe USED to do that, but his elevation is not what it used to be. Lebron just dunks over you when he gets to the rim or if not gets an and 1, seriously its like lebron is sitting down in the air while placing the basket in the hoop for a layup, he's big AND jumps high. Lowering your shoulder would increase the chances of a charging foul... but what the heck Kobe ALREADY does that: seems pretty low
I agree Kobe doesn't get to the rim as easily as LeBron, but look at the physical differences of the two. There's no one else in the league with LeBron's physical gifts. He's almost as big as Karl Malone, but has the quickness of a point guard and gets off the ground quick. It's like comparing a full back to a wide receiver and saying who's better at breaking through the pile? Obviously the full back is going to win that challenge every time. It's still early in LeBron's career where he can get away with a lot because of his physical attributes. However, I want to see how he evolves his game once his body starts breaking down. Look at how fast DWade fell out of the picture. Neither Wade or LeBron have the mid-range game or back to basket post moves to fall back on once their physical skills start to deteriorate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jan 31 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree Kobe doesn't get to the rim as easily as LeBron, but look at the physical differences of the two. There's no one else in the league with LeBron's physical gifts. He's almost as big as Karl Malone, but has the quickness of a point guard and gets off the ground quick. It's like comparing a full back to a wide receiver and saying who's better at breaking through the pile? Obviously the full back is going to win that challenge every time. It's still early in LeBron's career where he can get away with a lot because of his physical attributes. However, I want to see how he evolves his game once his body starts breaking down. Look at how fast DWade fell out of the picture. Neither Wade or LeBron have the mid-range game or back to basket post moves to fall back on once their physical skills start to deteriorate.</div> - Thats why, in order to win your argument Trench, tell your friend, what would happen if Kobe and Lebron switched bodies? Clearly Kobe would benefit in Lebron's body and Lebron would NOT. Right now they ARE pretty equal, but if Kobe even HAD Lebron's physique then there wouldnt even be any comparison. Kobe would flat out school Lebron and Lebron would be much more like Dwade at KB's height - Thats what i was saying to everyone last year, that Dwade would quickly deteriorate because of the way he plays. Always banging into bodies and falling to the floor.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ Jan 31 2008, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>- accomplished more at the age of 23 - kobe has a smaller physique but dominates the game just like lebron - no one (in terms of size) can match up to lebron (PG, SG, SF are to smalle and PF and C are too big and slow to guard him) but Kobe can still dominate any defender he goes up against just the same Trench, ask your friend what would happen if kobe were also 6'8 like lebron OR better yet, what would happen if Lebron was 6 - 4/5 like Kobe</div> What would happen if AI was 6'6 or 6'8, and what would happen if Kobe and Lebron were 5'11? What if Baron Davis was 6'6 and Kobe was 6'3? What if Charles Barkley was 7'6 and Yao Ming was 6'6? Lebron is better at getting into and scoring in the paint, Kobe is a better mid-range and 3 point shooter. Kobe on average is a better perimeter defender that Lebron. Kobe when he puts energy into it, is quite a bit better perimeter defender (Kobe when he is fresh can guard some pgs imo). Lebron is better at holding his ground against bigger players. Although this advantage is not as important as perimeter defense would be for a SF. I think Kobe has a better coach, and better team design. Kobe has 3 rings, which definitely shows which player has accomplished more in their careers. If I had to choose one player for the Lakers I think Kobe is a better fit, if I had to choose a player for the Cavs, Lebron is a better fit. Right now, its kind of hard to say, it depends on the team's design, and both are top players.
This isn't an argument of Lebron vs. Kobe + Shaq....so why is everyone bringing up those 3 rings? Lebron bringing a bunch of mediocre players to the Finals this early in his career should say something. Haven't even see Kobe gettin past the 2nd round without Shaq
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jan 31 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This isn't an argument of Lebron vs. Kobe + Shaq....so why is everyone bringing up those 3 rings? Lebron bringing a bunch of mediocre players to the Finals this early in his career should say something. Haven't even see Kobe gettin past the 2nd round without Shaq</div> LeBron plays in the lEast. Kobe was just as important to winning those rings. Shaq hadn't won anything without Kobe up to that point in his career. The Cavs won 50 games last season which would have matched them against the Spurs in Round 1 if they played in the Western Conference. We all witnessed what the Spurs did to them. You're right the Lakers haven't been able to get past Round 2 since Shaq, but look at the disparity in the East and West Conferences. Also look at the string of bad luck this team has dealt with from the major injuries. You cannot win anything in the West with just one superstar.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ Jan 31 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jan 31 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree Kobe doesn't get to the rim as easily as LeBron, but look at the physical differences of the two. There's no one else in the league with LeBron's physical gifts. He's almost as big as Karl Malone, but has the quickness of a point guard and gets off the ground quick. It's like comparing a full back to a wide receiver and saying who's better at breaking through the pile? Obviously the full back is going to win that challenge every time. It's still early in LeBron's career where he can get away with a lot because of his physical attributes. However, I want to see how he evolves his game once his body starts breaking down. Look at how fast DWade fell out of the picture. Neither Wade or LeBron have the mid-range game or back to basket post moves to fall back on once their physical skills start to deteriorate.</div> - Thats why, in order to win your argument Trench, tell your friend, what would happen if Kobe and Lebron switched bodies? Clearly Kobe would benefit in Lebron's body and Lebron would NOT. Right now they ARE pretty equal, but if Kobe even HAD Lebron's physique then there wouldnt even be any comparison. Kobe would flat out school Lebron and Lebron would be much more like Dwade at KB's height - Thats what i was saying to everyone last year, that Dwade would quickly deteriorate because of the way he plays. Always banging into bodies and falling to the floor. </div> Wow seriously, stop bringing up the switching bodies comment, it means nothing and it sounds silly. If LeBron is more physical and also taller, than he just is, don't take away credit from that or make up some crazy comment about height/muscle. LeBron has definitely closed the gap with Kobe simply because Kobe is getting older, and LeBron is having his empirically best season. I don't even care if LeBron is better than Kobe right now, because at their peak I'd take Kobe. Also do not forget TS%, which is superior to FG%. I see people bring up LeBron's "superior" percentages but this is misleading on many occasions. He has to be more consistent at the line and such. Finally, criticizing Kobe about the First round of the playoffs is also foolish, he doesn't get to play the Washington Wizards or pre-Chris-Paul Hornets like LeBron/Wade did.
Kobe has a consistent jumper, LeBron still hasn't figured that one out. Kobe is committed to the defensive end as much as he is to the offensive end, LeBron still doesn't play defense on every possession. Kobe has far better range on his jump shot. Kobe is a better free throw shooter. Kobe is still the best player in the clutch that this league has. Kobe has three rings, LeBron has none (maybe not a fair comparison, but still). The only thing that I honestly think LeBron is better at is getting to the rim, but even then he's not much better. And honestly, for what it's worth, Kobe might be just as good considering he's 45lbs lighter and a couple inches shorter. Last thing to point out, Kobe Bryant is on the superior team and, if it weren't for injuries, would probably still be in the top 4 out in the far superior Western Conference.
Shape, nice point about the fundamentals! I didn't even think of that, LeBron's jumper is brick ugly. He needs to get that down, he often flares his right leg out. I still believe Kobe gets to the hole just as easy as LeBron, he's been doing it the past two games with ease. He slices through the defenders, unlike LeBron who just bulls through them. So in that sense, yes it's easier for LeBron because he can just over power his opposition. There shouldn't even be an argument when LeBron constantly calls Kobe, "the best player on the planet."
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Jan 31 2008, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shape, nice point about the fundamentals! I didn't even think of that, LeBron's jumper is brick ugly. He needs to get that down, he often flares his right leg out. I still believe Kobe gets to the hole just as easy as LeBron, he's been doing it the past two games with ease. He slices through the defenders, unlike LeBron who just bulls through them. So in that sense, yes it's easier for LeBron because he can just over power his opposition. There shouldn't even be an argument when LeBron constantly calls Kobe, "the best player on the planet."</div> Not only that, but Kobe's injuries the last two years have definitely hurt his stats. He even had a fracture in his knee in 2005-2006.
A lot of people are upset at Kobe for missing shots and FT's, but isn't he like a career 82% FT shooter? He's going to miss those occasionally. What they also have to remember is he's had a nagging wrist injury all year. It's hard to shoot the ball well when your wrist is messed up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jan 31 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ Jan 31 2008, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>- accomplished more at the age of 23 - kobe has a smaller physique but dominates the game just like lebron - no one (in terms of size) can match up to lebron (PG, SG, SF are to smalle and PF and C are too big and slow to guard him) but Kobe can still dominate any defender he goes up against just the same Trench, ask your friend what would happen if kobe were also 6'8 like lebron OR better yet, what would happen if Lebron was 6 - 4/5 like Kobe</div> What would happen if AI was 6'6 or 6'8, and what would happen if Kobe and Lebron were 5'11? What if Baron Davis was 6'6 and Kobe was 6'3? What if Charles Barkley was 7'6 and Yao Ming was 6'6? Lebron is better at getting into and scoring in the paint, Kobe is a better mid-range and 3 point shooter. Kobe on average is a better perimeter defender that Lebron. Kobe when he puts energy into it, is quite a bit better perimeter defender (Kobe when he is fresh can guard some pgs imo). Lebron is better at holding his ground against bigger players. Although this advantage is not as important as perimeter defense would be for a SF. I think Kobe has a better coach, and better team design. Kobe has 3 rings, which definitely shows which player has accomplished more in their careers. If I had to choose one player for the Lakers I think Kobe is a better fit, if I had to choose a player for the Cavs, Lebron is a better fit. Right now, its kind of hard to say, it depends on the team's design, and both are top players. </div> This is about Kobe and Lebron Oh and God is Good, he never makes anyone perfect... except for Lebron! LOL
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Jan 31 2008, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe has a consistent jumper, LeBron still hasn't figured that one out. Kobe is committed to the defensive end as much as he is to the offensive end, LeBron still doesn't play defense on every possession. Kobe has far better range on his jump shot. Kobe is a better free throw shooter. Kobe is still the best player in the clutch that this league has. Kobe has three rings, LeBron has none (maybe not a fair comparison, but still). The only thing that I honestly think LeBron is better at is getting to the rim, but even then he's not much better. And honestly, for what it's worth, Kobe might be just as good considering he's 45lbs lighter and a couple inches shorter. Last thing to point out, Kobe Bryant is on the superior team and, if it weren't for injuries, would probably still be in the top 4 out in the far superior Western Conference.</div> COULD be a fair one since kobe won all 3 before or when he as 23yrs
