Collins for Swift is a BAD MOVE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 3 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would be a bad move if the Nets were competitive and trying to win.

Since that's not the case, it hardly matters.</div>

Collins would have been more of an asset to the Nets if his contract wasn't so steep, maybe half the price.

I agree though, as bad as the Nets are...this trade makes no difference.

 

Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.</div>

Now, now, Eddie Griffin is dead. Smith had one incident in 7.5 years. Even Grizzlies bloggers at 3shadesofblue noted that while he maybe be a "bum", he was not disruptive. He is not the pathetic, violent drunk that Griffin was. Nor is he the cancer that McInnis was before and during his stay with the Nets. He's an underachieving, hyperathlete.

Frank had stopped using Collins anyway. Twin was indeed underrated, but his knees are shot and without Krstic, he was an offensive liability the team could no longer afford.

This may be no more than a salary dump. The Nets save $400K in cap space this year on the exchange--enough to sign any player to minimum contract or to provide a cushion in some complicated deal involving Kidd. If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.

Besides, he is now a member of the Nets and I intend to give him a chance. Thorn has taken multiple chances over the past seven years. The failures are easy to recount, but Kidd and Carter were damaged goods on arrival and have contributed greatly to the team's success. The two Williams were well worth the gamble and no one thought Boone had the heart to be worth a first round pick.

 

Kidd will be swift's key to success, just like nash is to amare. if you let kidd go and do not get a good passer that can get the ball to swift then indeed it would be a bad move.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ Feb 4 2008, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd will be swift's key to success, just like nash is to amare. if you let kidd go and do not get a good passer that can get the ball to swift then indeed it would be a bad move.</div>

I waver on the possibility of Kidd being traded before the deadline. I don't think the chances are any better than 50-50.

Kobe Bryant demanded a trade, didnt get one and things worked out for him and the Lakers.

Andrei Kirilenko demanded a trade, didnt get one and things worked out for him and the Jazz.

Shawn Marion demanded a trade, didn't get one and things worked out for him and the Suns.

I do expect one more move before the deadline even if Kidd, Carter or Jefferson aren't dealt. It would be nice to see one of three young ne'er-do-well's join the Nets: J.R. Smith, Gerald Green or J. J. Reddick...someone, anyone who can shoot, PLEASE!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.</div>

Now, now, Eddie Griffin is dead. Smith had one incident in 7.5 years. Even Grizzlies bloggers at 3shadesofblue noted that while he maybe be a "bum", he was not disruptive. He is not the pathetic, violent drunk that Griffin was. Nor is he the cancer that McInnis was before and during his stay with the Nets. He's an underachieving, hyperathlete.

Frank had stopped using Collins anyway. Twin was indeed underrated, but his knees are shot and without Krstic, he was an offensive liability the team could no longer afford.

This may be no more than a salary dump. The Nets save $400K in cap space this year on the exchange--enough to sign any player to minimum contract or to provide a cushion in some complicated deal involving Kidd. If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.

Besides, he is now a member of the Nets and I intend to give him a chance. Thorn has taken multiple chances over the past seven years. The failures are easy to recount, but Kidd and Carter were damaged goods on arrival and have contributed greatly to the team's success. The two Williams were well worth the gamble and no one thought Boone had the heart to be worth a first round pick.

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Even with all that said, I'm still iffy about this trade. Who's to say he'll even play this year, anyways?

I'm actually thinking/hoping that Swift was probably just a trade completed to make way for another trade.

 

Yeah this place certainly has the reputation of reviving/building people's careers. I'm willing to give him the Kidd-effect before I write him off as a 15th man. Hey maybe he could be the second coming of Mikki Moore? You know, without the jumpshot, but with lots of easy baskets.

 

I pretty much broke down Dave D.'s article on Swift. A background of sorts, to get to know Swift. If all of it is true (other than Van Gundy's little shindig there), well, we've got another typical Net player....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 4 2008, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In Swift, Nets acquire an untapped talent - Dave D'Alessandro - Star-Ledger

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If you wanted to learn about Stromile Swift, the logical place to start is to consult his oldest and closest friend in the NBA. That would be Pau Gasol -- a relationship that makes no sense whatsoever, but there you go. No one would have ever guessed that an urbane global icon from Spain and a timid, sensitive guy from Louisiana would be close, but the NBA is a different kind of place.</div>

Timid and sensitive? Wtf? Is that serious? Crazy.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Stro has never been very consistent," Gasol said bluntly. "He could put together streaks, play very good, and then all of a sudden he has a couple of games where he doesn't play all-out and he's totally absent. That's not good for the team."</div>

That's Stro for ya. Inconsistent. He'll go perfectly with the Nets!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, the reason Swift came so cheaply is that the Memphis Grizzlies were tired of him. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy -- no one will ever say that about the 28-year-old forward -- and the Nets are convinced that his suspension last week was a case of Memphis coach Marc Iavaroni trying to make an example of him.

Swift is a world-class athlete, everyone knows that. He simply doesn't have the work ethic to match it; one coach even suggested that Swift "change his approach" to everything he does, because his way was obviously not working.</div>

Ah, so he's not a malcontent. Just that...he has no work ethic. He's lazy, perfect! Just my type of guy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Still, here's what Van Gundy says now: "It's a great trade for the Nets," the ESPN analyst said yesterday. "He's an intelligent(???), nice guy. He's good in the open-court game. He lacks strength in a grind-it-out halfcourt game, but he's a good bench player who could average 10 and five."</div>

Van Gundy...on drugs. I'm convinced.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"With Stro, familiarity breeds good success," said Brendan Brown, who coached Swift for four years as an assistant in Memphis. "The more he plays, the better he is. We used to isolate him at the elbow and let him go against bulky (centers). He could beat them to the rim, make a pull-up, or just shoot it in their faces."

Defensively, he is a floater. He can block shots, but he has trouble with remembering schemes, and doesn't always run back as hard as he should -- or worse, he could be too busy celebrating dunks.</div>


Now, I'll listen to Brown. I think he knows what he's talking about. This is EXACTLY what I've seen from him whenever I see him play. The more he's on the court, the more he produces. He's quick, and he does have an okay jumper.

And he's retarded on defense. He doesn't know where he should be, and he's lazy, and is too busy with his birdman shit to actually hustle up the court with every other player. This is what we're bringing in. Can't say I'm all that happy about it.
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Well at least now we have 4 fantastic dunkers on the team.

Jefferson
CArter
Williams
Swift

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>

If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.</div> </div>

I am pretty sure Kidd's contract does <u>not</u> have an opt-out clause for next year....he is fully guaranteed for 2008-2009.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 3 2008, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift strikes me as the type of guy who gets drunk and crashes someone's wedding, and then tries to break down the door of the bride and groom because he wants to party. You know--an athletic, overhyped moron who no one wants and has failed multiple times, but Thorn decides to give a chance to.

To change the topic, I'd like to see Josh Childress become a Net just to see how long it will take his hair to fall out. That would be entertaining.</div>

Now, now, Eddie Griffin is dead. Smith had one incident in 7.5 years. Even Grizzlies bloggers at 3shadesofblue noted that while he maybe be a "bum", he was not disruptive. He is not the pathetic, violent drunk that Griffin was. Nor is he the cancer that McInnis was before and during his stay with the Nets. He's an underachieving, hyperathlete.</div>


I started to type, "I hope you're right"--and then I realised what that meant. You are calling the new player underacheiving and I am hoping you're right! Boy, are my expectations low. Maybe he isn't a protypical cancer, but he HAD just been suspended for "conduct detrimental to the team," and I have a vague recollection that this wasn't the first time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Frank had stopped using Collins anyway. Twin was indeed underrated, but his knees are shot and without Krstic, he was an offensive liability the team could no longer afford.</div>

Unfortunately, true. Collins' value came from the way his skills meshed with the other starters. Remember my long-running argument that Collins should have just played 15-20 minutes a game, and all of them wuth just the starting unit? The guy is all class, though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This may be no more than a salary dump. The Nets save $400K in cap space this year on the exchange--enough to sign any player to minimum contract or to provide a cushion in some complicated deal involving Kidd. If he decides to opt out of his contract in hopes of getting a longer but less lucrative deal from someone--say $11 million over three--then the Nets will have saved nearly $7 million next year on the cap...the value of Collins contract next season.</div>

We can only hope. He'll get the Boki treatment for the rest of this season, so we'll never get a chance to see him play

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Besides, he is now a member of the Nets and I intend to give him a chance. Thorn has taken multiple chances over the past seven years. The failures are easy to recount, but Kidd and Carter were damaged goods on arrival and have contributed greatly to the team's success. The two Williams were well worth the gamble and no one thought Boone had the heart to be worth a first round pick.</div>

But Kidd and Carter at least had a history of being good! marcus was a no-brainer given their needs, and some people were in favor of drafting Boone well in advance of the draft. I give them credit for Sean, though. Even if he's nothing more than a role player, it's still hard to find an adequate big man outside of the lottery--in fact, over the past five-seven years, with Krstic and Boone, the Nets have a pretty good record in that regard.

 

COLLINS IS GARBAGE! ID TRADE HIM FOR BAG OF BALLS

SWIFT IS AN ATHLETIC PLAYER THAT CAN DUNK, BLOCK AND ACTUALLY REBOUND!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 4 2008, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I pretty much broke down Dave D.'s article on Swift. A background of sorts, to get to know Swift. If all of it is true (other than Van Gundy's little shindig there), well, we've got another typical Net player....</div>

Aren't you the positive one? I think you can break down this trade pretty easily. It's not a big deal, and wasn't meant to be...it's a trade of one mediocre player for another.

1. Thorn had said he was looking for more scoring from the front court. More scoring than Collins isn't hard. So this is what he got. We're not talking about a franchise savior here. We are talking about improving the scoring athleticism off the bench. No big whoop.

2. There is some chance Swift will exercise his players option...as opposed to no chance for Collins. So the prospect of saving the value of Twin's contract next year, nearly $7 million, comes into play.

3. This does indeed give the Nets an additional $450,000 to play with on the luxury tax--Collins $6.25 million - Swift's $5.8 million. By my calculations, the Nets now have a cushion of $631,000 to play with. So it's an added benefit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 4 2008, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I pretty much broke down Dave D.'s article on Swift. A background of sorts, to get to know Swift. If all of it is true (other than Van Gundy's little shindig there), well, we've got another typical Net player....</div>

Aren't you the positive one? I think you can break down this trade pretty easily. It's not a big deal, and wasn't meant to be...it's a trade of one mediocre player for another.

1. Thorn had said he was looking for more scoring from the front court. More scoring than Collins isn't hard. So this is what he got. We're not talking about a franchise savior here. We are talking about improving the scoring athleticism off the bench. No big whoop.

2. There is some chance Swift will exercise his players option...as opposed to no chance for Collins. So the prospect of saving the value of Twin's contract next year, nearly $7 million, comes into play.

3. This does indeed give the Nets an additional $450,000 to play with on the luxury tax--Collins $6.25 million - Swift's $5.8 million. By my calculations, the Nets now have a cushion of $631,000 to play with. So it's an added benefit.


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From a non-financial standpoint, I can't see anything all that great coming from this trade...except for the possibility of another trade, or possibly less boring Nets games.

And more scoring? We need better defense, not more scoring. We've got too many all-offense, no-defense players on this team as it is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>3. This does indeed give the Nets an additional $450,000 to play with on the luxury tax--Collins $6.25 million - Swift's $5.8 million. By my calculations, the Nets now have a cushion of $631,000 to play with. So it's an added benefit.</div>

How much would they have to pay Bobby Jones for the rest of the season?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 4 2008, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Feb 4 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>3. This does indeed give the Nets an additional $450,000 to play with on the luxury tax--Collins $6.25 million - Swift's $5.8 million. By my calculations, the Nets now have a cushion of $631,000 to play with. So it's an added benefit.</div>

How much would they have to pay Bobby Jones for the rest of the season?
</div>
Nothing. You really think Thron would have the balls to roll the dice on that one?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SUPERB @ Feb 4 2008, 05:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well at least now we have 4 fantastic dunkers on the team.

Jefferson
CArter
Williams
Swift</div>

I think you mean 3. Sadly, I'd no longer classify Carter as a fantastic dunker. 1 dunk every two, three games isn't good enough.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (furnace @ Feb 3 2008, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (footswalker @ Feb 1 2008, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, but when you have a chance to get rid of what is statiscally the worst player possibly EVER, and you may actually get a serviceable player in return, you don't blink. You say "sounds like a good deal" and try not to laugh before you hang up the phone.

Anyone who thinks Collins is worth keeping just doesn't understand the game of basketball. Playing with him on offense, you are playing 4 against 5. And defensively, he's nowhere near what he once was. Witness Chris Paul scoring a game winner on him. Witness him fouling a 3-point shooter in the final minute of the same game. Witness him bricking two freebies in the final minute vs. the Jazz. Witness the fact that he never blocks a shot, gets an assist or a steal. He's like a ghost! Even though he's asked to do so very little, he still manages to blow games! He is a TERRIBLE NBA PLAYER. And we were stuck with him for another whole year? This has been the worst contract in Nets history. God, It's been FOREVER!

You know what Furnace, I'll take my chances with Stro, and unless he goes on a killing spree, I think we'll be okay.

Pass me what you guys have been smoking.</div>

Basketball is not baseball. Statistics do not rule, especially not box score stats.

You are the one that does not understand basketball. He allows the team to execute sets and plays that would not be possible with Swift, who is of very low basketball IQ. On top of that, this locker room is already fragile. If Kidd does not get traded by the deadline, everyone will be walking on eggshells and that last thing the Nets need is Swift messing with the chemistry.

Basketball is a game about knowing and trusting your teammates. You cannot quantify situations by reducing variables like you can in baseball. Therefore, you cannot even use stats like PER. Wins is the only true judge. And judging by wins, the fast break/motion offense of the 01-04 Nets were the most effective with Kidd. Period.

I agree that Collins is not the player he was back then...his knees are bad and his free throw shooting has inexplicably fallen. However, he still provides more value than Swift as a specialist defender off the bench. Swift is a poor man's Sean Williams. If anything, it would make more sense to trade Magloire for Swift.
</div>


So, wait, basketball isn't baseball? That's profound. To finish up on this. Collins wasn't even playing anymore, so he wasn't "allowing" them to do anything, as you say, so that point is moot. On offense, he sets a high screen and stands there. He can't roll to the hoop and he can't pop out for a J. Worthless. As a specialist defender, give me a break. He's able to stand in one place and take an occasional charge, basically because he can't move. He got schooled this year by tons of players, including Eddy Curry, who he's supposedly a specialist against. He also gets tons of ticky tack fouls against him, because he gets zero respect from officials. And if a rebound isn't right at him, he's not getting it.

They got rid of dead weight and got a guy they will either take off the books and save some cap space on sooner than they would've with Collins. Or maybe it will be a guy that rediscovers his game a little and helps them out. Either way, the trade was a no-brainer. It's not Neil Allen for Keith Hernandez or Kidd for Marbury, but it's a trade that improves the team a little bit, end of story.

The great thing is we no longer have to debate and complain about J.C., this team is bad enough without him. And yeah, he got a lot of unfair blame. But a lot of it was also fair. And p.s., he'll be out of the league after next year, watch.