That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis). Ben Gordon wants a big time contract and wants a big time role on a team. In Portland, there is no big time role for him, so why waste money on an unhappy player?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis). Ben Gordon wants a big time contract and wants a big time role on a team. In Portland, there is no big time role for him, so why waste money on an unhappy player?</div> I don't know that you're right or wrong about what Gordon wants, but what i think is: 1. If I ask myself if Gordon would be a significant and immediate help to the Blazers, I answer yes. Would have play 30+ mpg for them? Yes. Are they in a position they could use that kind of help going into the playoffs? Yes. 2. If they trade Fernandez to get him, then he's got just as much long-term future on that team as anyone else. And Fernandez doesn't bring any of that immediate help. 3. Yes, you're right, you have to balance that against how much they like Fernandez, but I could see it working.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Feb 13 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis). Ben Gordon wants a big time contract and wants a big time role on a team. In Portland, there is no big time role for him, so why waste money on an unhappy player?</div> I don't know that you're right or wrong about what Gordon wants, but what i think is: 1. If I ask myself if Gordon would be a significant and immediate help to the Blazers, I answer yes. Would have play 30+ mpg for them? Yes. Are they in a position they could use that kind of help going into the playoffs? Yes. 2. If they trade Fernandez to get him, then he's got just as much long-term future on that team as anyone else. And Fernandez doesn't bring any of that immediate help. 3. Yes, you're right, you have to balance that against how much they like Fernandez, but I could see it working. </div> The Blazers are ahead of schedule and won't be making any rash moves to push for the playoffs. This season is about evaluating the players they have on their roster. As for your first question, I disagree that Gordon would be a significant help to the Blazers. He would take Jack's place in the rotation and get about 10 FGA's per game. Certainly Gordon would be an improvement, but he wouldn't be putting up the stats he does in Chicago.
Well I know that the pre-cancer, the Bulls were trying to trade for Nene and had based a package around Tyrus and Duhon
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis).</div> I haven't read any articles where Pritchard or Allen stated they wanted to remain under the luxury tax threshold. As far as I know, the Randolph trade served two purposes - it got rid of a selfish player who had a bad effect on a team chemistry and it let Portland have cap space in the summer of 2009. Since 2009 is the last time Portland will have cap space for a decade and they have an owner willing to pay the luxury tax it's very unlikely that they won't use it, even if they have the same opinion of Gordon as you. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Ben Gordon wants a big time contract and wants a big time role on a team.</div> One of those is questionable and both have huge qualifiers. We don't know whether the reported 65/5 was a firm demand or a negotiating ploy by his agent. The Bulls didn't budge from their 50 million offer. It's possible Gordon was simply angling for a bit more and would have accepted 52.5/5. I agree that he wants a big role, but that depends on the circumstance. From his public statements and actions, I've come to the conclusion that Ben Gordon cares mostly about prestige and respect. Money and playing time are important but mostly as a means to an end (fame). -He has barely complained about coming off the bench, and I suspect most of his annoyance stems from the fact that he's being benched for players who are not as good as him on a losing team. That's not unreasonable. -He has played for two drill seargent/verbally abusive coaches in Skiles and Jim Calhoun and, again, has never complained. Calhoun in particular is known as someone who grinds his players down emotionally. Gordon just takes it. -Earlier this season he called for Thabo Sefolosha to get more playing time, even though they play the same position. -He's never complained about his role in the offense or demanded to play PG or anything of that sort. These are not the actions of an arrogant, self-centered person who cares about money and playing time at the expense of everything else. I think he would readily accept a slightly smaller contract and a bench role to play on a championship team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rwj @ Feb 13 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis).</div> I haven't read any articles where Pritchard or Allen stated they wanted to remain under the luxury tax threshold. As far as I know, the Randolph trade served two purposes - it got rid of a selfish player who had a bad effect on a team chemistry and it let Portland have cap space in the summer of 2009. Since 2009 is the last time Portland will have cap space for a decade and they have an owner willing to pay the luxury tax it's very unlikely that they won't use it, even if they have the same opinion of Gordon as you. </div> I'll deal with these is two separate responses First, the cap space myth. The following is from a post by storyteller <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>OK, as things sit now, assuming that all options are picked up and all qualifying offers are made, I show that the Blazers would have 16 players under contract in July of 2009 for a total of $74,126,706 in team salary: Darius Miles - $9,000,000 Joel Przybilla - $6,857,725 Greg Oden - $5,361,240 (Team Option) LaMarcus Aldridge - $5,844,827 (Team Option) Steve Blake - $4,930,000 (Team Option) Travis Outlaw - $4,000,000 (Team Option) Martell Webster - $11,313,399 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Brandon Roy - $3,910,816 (Team Option) Channing Frye - $9,491,307 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Jarrett Jack - $6,007,869 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Sergio Rodriguez - $1,576,696 (Team Option) Rudy Fernandez - $1,205,066 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) Petteri Koponen - $1,063,881 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) Joel Freeland - $1,063,881 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) 1st Round pick in 2008 - $1,500,00 (My guess) 1st Round pick in 2009 - $1,000,000 (My guess)</div> There are so many things that the Blazers would have to do to get significant cap space. Included in that is letting go of players that perform well for them at cheap levels like Outlaw and Blake. Tom Penn is a salary cap wiz, so I don't doubt that the Blazers could get significant cap space, but doing so would jeopardize the depth of the team. The whole myth of 2009 cap space was part of the "marketing" of the Zach trade. The reality is that the team's new president (who came from Nike) had marketing studies that clearly demonstrated that Zach had to go no matter what.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rwj @ Feb 13 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ben Gordon wants a big time contract and wants a big time role on a team.</div> One of those is questionable and both have huge qualifiers. We don't know whether the reported 65/5 was a firm demand or a negotiating ploy by his agent. The Bulls didn't budge from their 50 million offer. It's possible Gordon was simply angling for a bit more and would have accepted 52.5/5. I agree that he wants a big role, but that depends on the circumstance. From his public statements and actions, I've come to the conclusion that Ben Gordon cares mostly about prestige and respect. Money and playing time are important but mostly as a means to an end (fame). -He has barely complained about coming off the bench, and I suspect most of his annoyance stems from the fact that he's being benched for players who are not as good as him on a losing team. That's not unreasonable. -He has played for two drill seargent/verbally abusive coaches in Skiles and Jim Calhoun and, again, has never complained. Calhoun in particular is known as someone who grinds his players down emotionally. Gordon just takes it. -Earlier this season he called for Thabo Sefolosha to get more playing time, even though they play the same position. -He's never complained about his role in the offense or demanded to play PG or anything of that sort. These are not the actions of an arrogant, self-centered person who cares about money and playing time at the expense of everything else. I think he would readily accept a slightly smaller contract and a bench role to play on a championship team. </div> I don't see how prestige and respect equate to being a bench player on young team. He has demonstrated that he can be a 20 PPG scorer in the NBA. Why would he step back, especially when he is going for the biggest contract of his career?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see how prestige and respect equate to being a bench player on young team. He has demonstrated that he can be a 20 PPG scorer in the NBA. Why would he step back, especially when he is going for the biggest contract of his career?</div> Playing for a championship team gives him a shot at significance. It's not a huge step back role-wise because he's already a 6th man on the Bulls. And at the end of the day there's not much you can do with 50 million (probably less now) that you can't do with ~35 million (5 years at the MLE, worst case).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rwj @ Feb 13 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That has nothing to do with it. Rather it is about GM philosophy. Trader Bob believed in adding talent for the sake of talent, while KP is concerned about the locker room (see dumping Zach Randolph and buying out Steve Francis).</div> I haven't read any articles where Pritchard or Allen stated they wanted to remain under the luxury tax threshold. As far as I know, the Randolph trade served two purposes - it got rid of a selfish player who had a bad effect on a team chemistry and it let Portland have cap space in the summer of 2009. Since 2009 is the last time Portland will have cap space for a decade and they have an owner willing to pay the luxury tax it's very unlikely that they won't use it, even if they have the same opinion of Gordon as you. </div> I'll deal with these is two separate responses First, the cap space myth. The following is from a post by storyteller <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>OK, as things sit now, assuming that all options are picked up and all qualifying offers are made, I show that the Blazers would have 16 players under contract in July of 2009 for a total of $74,126,706 in team salary: Darius Miles - $9,000,000 Joel Przybilla - $6,857,725 Greg Oden - $5,361,240 (Team Option) LaMarcus Aldridge - $5,844,827 (Team Option) Steve Blake - $4,930,000 (Team Option) Travis Outlaw - $4,000,000 (Team Option) Martell Webster - $11,313,399 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Brandon Roy - $3,910,816 (Team Option) Channing Frye - $9,491,307 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Jarrett Jack - $6,007,869 (Cap Hold after Qualifying Offer is made) Sergio Rodriguez - $1,576,696 (Team Option) Rudy Fernandez - $1,205,066 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) Petteri Koponen - $1,063,881 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) Joel Freeland - $1,063,881 (Assuming he signs in Summer of 2008) 1st Round pick in 2008 - $1,500,00 (My guess) 1st Round pick in 2009 - $1,000,000 (My guess)</div> There are so many things that the Blazers would have to do to get significant cap space. Included in that is letting go of players that perform well for them at cheap levels like Outlaw and Blake. Tom Penn is a salary cap wiz, so I don't doubt that the Blazers could get significant cap space, but doing so would jeopardize the depth of the team. The whole myth of 2009 cap space was part of the "marketing" of the Zach trade. The reality is that the team's new president (who came from Nike) had marketing studies that clearly demonstrated that Zach had to go no matter what. </div> Cap discussions can be tedious so I'll concede and let you have the last word on this but I'm still not convinced. That list has 16 players on it. Some of those cap holds are outrageous. I admit I didn't realize their situation was that convoluted.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well I know that the pre-cancer, the Bulls were trying to trade for Nene and had based a package around Tyrus and Duhon</div> I've been a Nene fan for a while, but I'd be pretty surprised if the Bulls would take on that sort of salary obligation heading into next year.
