<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Feb 13 2008, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 13 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Feb 13 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 13 2008, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I didn't realize this was a video game.</div> So only APG matters? </div> Well, there's other stats, too. But intangibles sure don't matter. </div> Your argument relies on intangibles. It's less valid. Hollinger goes mad when he uses stats no one can understand. However, TS% is quite a simple concept to comprehend. When did I make a Video game argument? I have stated what Moo has as well. </div> Wait, since when don't intangibles matter? And I didn't see where you stated the same thing as Moo.]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's probably 6'8" or 6'9" with a solid build. However, it doesn't matter how strong you are when the opposing team's bigs are anywhere from 4" to 8" taller than you. The other thing I neglect to mention is rebounding. Diop did a serviceable job on the glass. I realize Kidd is a solid rebounder for a guard, but lets be fair. He plays out East, where great bigs are lacking in comparison to the West. Plus, he was on a team full of piss poor rebounders. Can you really expect him to keep grabbing 8rpg in the Western Conference? That was one thing you could expect out of Diop. While he doesn't give you jack on offense, he can at least rebound and defend the post. Kidd won't be able to defend the post and his rebounding numbers might go down since he'll be playing against bigger competition nightly.</div> Did you look at Kidd's rebounding numbers when he played on PHX? 6.2, 6.8, 7.2 & 6.4 Him pulling down 7 RPG in Dallas is very reasonable.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's probably 6'8" or 6'9" with a solid build. However, it doesn't matter how strong you are when the opposing team's bigs are anywhere from 4" to 8" taller than you. The other thing I neglect to mention is rebounding. Diop did a serviceable job on the glass. I realize Kidd is a solid rebounder for a guard, but lets be fair. He plays out East, where great bigs are lacking in comparison to the West. Plus, he was on a team full of piss poor rebounders. Can you really expect him to keep grabbing 8rpg in the Western Conference? That was one thing you could expect out of Diop. While he doesn't give you jack on offense, he can at least rebound and defend the post. Kidd won't be able to defend the post and his rebounding numbers might go down since he'll be playing against bigger competition nightly.</div> Did you look at Kidd's rebounding numbers when he played on PHX? 6.2, 6.8, 7.2 & 6.4 Him pulling down 7 RPG in Dallas is very reasonable. </div>He was also a lot younger in his Phoenix days. Age could be a factor in banging with the bigger bodies out West. I'm not saying they'll decrease significantly, I'm just saying that I don't he'll be pulling down 8+ per game like has been in Jersey.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 13 2008, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Feb 13 2008, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 13 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Feb 13 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 13 2008, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I didn't realize this was a video game.</div> So only APG matters? </div> Well, there's other stats, too. But intangibles sure don't matter. </div> Your argument relies on intangibles. It's less valid. Hollinger goes mad when he uses stats no one can understand. However, TS% is quite a simple concept to comprehend. When did I make a Video game argument? I have stated what Moo has as well. </div> Wait, since when don't intangibles matter? And I didn't see where you stated the same thing as Moo.] </div> I've stated various times that the Devin Harris trade would make the Mavs worse. Implying the entire transaction. Jason Kidd is a better PG, the only issue is how he will fit in Dallas, and whether it is worth it considering what else is lost. I never said intangibles don't matter, merely that you cannot rely on them in this instance. You don't know if he'll play significantly better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div>Good enough, he's still a big body. When it comes down to it, he's 6 fouls they can use on Shaq, Bynum, Biedrins, etc. Even though he may not be the best C in the league, he's still solid enough down low defensively that they'll miss his presence.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div>Good enough, he's still a big body. When it comes down to it, he's 6 fouls they can use on Shaq, Bynum, Biedrins, etc. Even though he may not be the best C in the league, he's still solid enough down low defensively that they'll miss his presence. </div> Missing him is one thing. Changing their playoff fortunes is entirely different. He doesn't win or lose a series for them.
Individually he doesn't, but as a team, they're still going to miss him. Jason Kidd certainly isn't going to give them an inside presence on defense. Damp isn't going to be able to carry the load. Dirk is soft. And lastly, Bass is undersized. While he's not a make or break player for them, he gives them 6 fouls to burn through if need be as well as a very effective post defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div> Did you not watch the playoffs two years ago? Diop was HUGE in the playoffs
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (notmuchgame @ Feb 14 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div> Did you not watch the playoffs two years ago? Diop was HUGE in the playoffs </div> Yes he was important then, but the only other choice the Mavs had was KVH. This season, the Mavs have Brandon Bass
This is the greatest thing I've heard. I am disappointed, though. I think Kidd does no good to Dallas. He's too old, IMO. Dallas is giving up a lot for him. Phoenix gave up Marion for an over the hill Shaq. Dallas is giving up 2 firsts and Harris (plus fillers), for an over the hill Kidd. The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown, two picks, and Javaris for Gasol, who is entering his prime. You tell me who made the smart trade? God, L.A. has set the west on fire with panic. I love it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Feb 13 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is the greatest thing I've heard. I am disappointed, though. I think Kidd does no good to Dallas. He's too old, IMO. Dallas is giving up a lot for him. Phoenix gave up Marion for an over the hill Shaq. Dallas is giving up 2 firsts and Harris (plus fillers), for an over the hill Kidd. The Lakers gave up Kwame Brown, two picks, and Javaris for Gasol, who is entering his prime. You tell me who made the smart trade? God, L.A. has set the west on fire with panic. I love it.</div> Totally agree here. I wonder if the Suns would have traded for Shaq or if the Mavs would have closed in on a deal for Kidd had we not traded for Gasol. We can certainly say one thing, both of them are getting the shaft on their trades in my opinion, trading away players that are either in their prime or are not even close to their prime while getting an over the hill player who isn't nearly what they used to be while mortgaging their future in the process because of the salary cap implications. God I love it. And the best thing about all of this, neither team gets better from their trades in my opinion. The Mavs already had solid options at the PG with Jet and Harris and I think Marion is a much better fit in Phoenix than what Shaq will be. However, the Lakers got immensely better. They gave up next to nothing and got an All Star caliber player entering his prime. We're playing great because of it, and the best thing is we're not even at full strength yet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 13 2008, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dallas Fans: "WE GOT KIDD!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" Dirk: "Yeah. Time to get laid." Avery: "The General tips his hat" Mark Cuban: "Dallas will love me! We got Kidd!" "YEEEEEEE HAAAAWWWW!!!!! Gump: "What?? New Jersey?? That's too long of a plane ride. I decline. lolz" Dallas Fans: wtf</div> Brian with the visual images again. LOL. All that was missing was Devean George tearing his face (which was really a mask) off and revealing Greg Popovich and a bubble of text reading "VETOED Muahahahaha"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (notmuchgame @ Feb 14 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div> Did you not watch the playoffs two years ago? Diop was HUGE in the playoffs </div> Yes he was important then, but the only other choice the Mavs had was KVH. This season, the Mavs have Brandon Bass </div> Brandon Bass is undersized for the power positions. He's great against a team like the Warriors, but what's he going to do against the big boys in the league? Dallas better have another trade lined up to get an adequate backup for Dampier. Not only is Dampier inconsistent from, but he's also very foul prone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The other thing I neglect to mention is rebounding. Diop did a serviceable job on the glass. I realize Kidd is a solid rebounder for a guard, but lets be fair. He plays out East, where great bigs are lacking in comparison to the West. Plus, he was on a team full of piss poor rebounders. Can you really expect him to keep grabbing 8rpg in the Western Conference? That was one thing you could expect out of Diop. While he doesn't give you jack on offense, he can at least rebound and defend the post. Kidd won't be able to defend the post and his rebounding numbers might go down since he'll be playing against bigger competition nightly.</div> The dirty little secret is that Kidd owed a lot of his rebounding prowess to the Nets' game plan of RELYING on him for rebounds--specifically, Jason Collins' ability to box out. Over the past 16 games--a span that started just after Collins was replaced in the starting lineup--Kidd is averaging just over 6 rebounds a game. Think about it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Feb 14 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (notmuchgame @ Feb 14 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div> Did you not watch the playoffs two years ago? Diop was HUGE in the playoffs </div> Yes he was important then, but the only other choice the Mavs had was KVH. This season, the Mavs have Brandon Bass </div> Brandon Bass is undersized for the power positions. He's great against a team like the Warriors, but what's he going to do against the big boys in the league? Dallas better have another trade lined up to get an adequate backup for Dampier. Not only is Dampier inconsistent from, but he's also very foul prone. </div> Against the Spurs in 2 games he put up 12 & 5 in 23 MPG Against the Lakers in 1 game he put up 10 & 5 in 18 minutes He'll do just fine. The Pistons don't have to worry about brining Maxiell off the bench, the Jazz don't have to worry about brining Millsap off the bench and the Mavs don't have to worry about bringing Bass off the bench
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 14 2008, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moo2K4 @ Feb 13 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The other thing I neglect to mention is rebounding. Diop did a serviceable job on the glass. I realize Kidd is a solid rebounder for a guard, but lets be fair. He plays out East, where great bigs are lacking in comparison to the West. Plus, he was on a team full of piss poor rebounders. Can you really expect him to keep grabbing 8rpg in the Western Conference? That was one thing you could expect out of Diop. While he doesn't give you jack on offense, he can at least rebound and defend the post. Kidd won't be able to defend the post and his rebounding numbers might go down since he'll be playing against bigger competition nightly.</div> The dirty little secret is that Kidd owed a lot of his rebounding prowess to the Nets' game plan of RELYING on him for rebounds--specifically, Jason Collins' ability to box out. Over the past 16 games--a span that started just after Collins was replaced in the starting lineup--Kidd is averaging just over 6 rebounds a game. Think about it. </div> That is also a period of time where Kidd has been dogging it
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Feb 14 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 14 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (notmuchgame @ Feb 14 2008, 12:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 13 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Diop is not good enough to so significantly alter the Mavs playoff chances. He is an 18 MPG player</div> Did you not watch the playoffs two years ago? Diop was HUGE in the playoffs </div> Yes he was important then, but the only other choice the Mavs had was KVH. This season, the Mavs have Brandon Bass </div> Brandon Bass is undersized for the power positions. He's great against a team like the Warriors, but what's he going to do against the big boys in the league? Dallas better have another trade lined up to get an adequate backup for Dampier. Not only is Dampier inconsistent from, but he's also very foul prone. </div> Against the Spurs in 2 games he put up 12 & 5 in 23 MPG Against the Lakers in 1 game he put up 10 & 5 in 18 minutes He'll do just fine. The Pistons don't have to worry about brining Maxiell off the bench, the Jazz don't have to worry about brining Millsap off the bench and the Mavs don't have to worry about bringing Bass off the bench </div> Andrew Bynum didn't even suit up for the Dallas game and against the Spurs Duncan missed was out when Bass had a good game. In the game Duncan did play in Bass went 1-4 with 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 turnovers in 21 minutes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Feb 14 2008, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Andrew Bynum didn't even suit up for the Dallas game and against the Spurs Duncan missed was out when Bass had a good game. In the game Duncan did play in Bass went 1-4 with 6 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 turnovers in 21 minutes.</div> In that same Spurs game, Diop played 20 minutes, racked up 5 fouls, 5 points, 6 rebounds and 2 turnovers. Damn, such a huge impact.
