If everything that's being contemplated goes down, the nets will have their deepest squad since the finals teams. Conventional wisdom says that it takes stars to win, but without competent, productive ancillary parts and reserves, the team will go nowhere--just look at Cleveland and Miami, for instance. In the finals years, the Nets were led by their combos of Kidd-KMart-Kittles-KVH and Kidd-KMart-Kittles-RJ, but don't be fooled; a large part of thier success was due to Lu Harris, Aaron Williams, T-Mac, Rodney Rogers, Jason Collins (don't laugh), and the like. And maybe we should include Kittles in there as well, as the 4th option on offense. Now, in the non-big three portion of the team, we'd have Krstic, Boone, Diop, Sean Williams and Stro Swift; Mike Miller and Antoine Wright; and the usual crappy backup point guards. We also have Mo Ager, which would satisfy my wish for a young, unproven guy to try to develop into a competent contributor. The cost, of course, is the downgrade of Kidd to Harris. As a whole, though, the team could be just as good--a marginal playoff team that is one piece away from really contending. [and so there's no question, my stance is that Carter's skills have NOT diminished, but just that he's been hampered by injury this season] Anyway, let's compare this potential team to the one that began the season in 2006-7: Nenad Krstic . . . . . . = . . . . . . Nenad Krstic (will get there in time) Antoine Wright . . . . = . . . . . .Antoine Wright (no improvement) Jason Collins . . . . . . = . . . . . .Diop (be honest) Marcus Williams . . . . = . . . . . . Marcus Williams (unfortunately no improvement) Josh Boone . . . . . . . << . . . . . Josh Boone (huge improvement) Cliff Robinson . . . . . .<< . . . . S Williams (laughable comparison, but matched for obvious reasons) Boki Nachbar . . . . . . < . . . . .Mike Miller (Miller now is better than Nachbar last year) Eddie House . . . . . . .?? . . . . .. Darryl Armstrong (no idea how to rate this. House is better overall, but was misused at point and was hurt half the year) Mikki Moore . . . . . . .?=? . . . . . .Stro Swift (possibly equal in value--not sure) Hassan Adams . . . . . ?? . . . . . .Mo Ager (Ager has more potential, but he has to show something. He was hitting 45% of his three-point attempts in the D league, though) Jeff McInnis . . . . . . . = . . . . . . Van Horn (neither play) ---------------------------- Looking this over, though, I don't see why this team couldn't be successful with the Mike Miller deal WITHOUT trading Kidd. If only Kidd wasn't such an asshole.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 15 2008, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mike Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boki Nachbar. That one > symbol just seemed wrong.</div> yeah, compared to Boki right now--but last year after the AS Break Boki was pretty incredible. I'm comparing the Mike Miller now to THAT Boki (which we'll ever see again).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>when did we get mike miller?</div> hence the title, "if EVERYTHING goes down--and I mean EVERYTHING"
either DA or anotine would have to be included in that memphis deal along with boki and mags for salaris to macth so remove one of them from your equation
either DA or anotine would have to be included in that memphis deal along with boki and mags for salaris to macth so remove one of them from your equation
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 15 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 15 2008, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mike Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boki Nachbar. That one > symbol just seemed wrong.</div> yeah, compared to Boki right now--but last year after the AS Break Boki was pretty incredible. I'm comparing the Mike Miller now to THAT Boki (which we'll ever see again). </div> Miller is the perfect post-Kidd addition. He will drain all the open shots RJ and Carter can give him. He was born to play in Frank's half court sets. He is also a terrific passer. He has better court vision then Devin Harris. The Nets would be able to run the offense through him like the Pacers do with Mike Dunleavy. This takes a lot of pressure off Carter, who would really be the only distributor. Putting a lot of pressure on Vince every night is not a good thing.
Mikki Moore's season last year (in my opinion) was quite a bit due to Kidd... especially in the playoffs, I mean, it seemed like every basket he got was Kidd drawing attention away from him and finding him wide open under the bucket. In the Cavs series Z didn't even come near him the whole time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Miller, Carter, Jefferson, Harris on the books, do the Nets resign Krstic? -Petey</div> I believe so yes. I'm figuring he wants a shorter contract to give himself a chance to play healthy and earn a contract healthy...I'm thinking 3 years at 24 million with a team option 4th year at 9 million would probably be enough. It's around the same area as Gooden's contract...currently Gooden is averaging 11 and 8. Given Nenad isn't yet puting up stellar numbers only around 5 and 6.5 since getting back and given his best full season average was 13.5 and 6.5 than it seems to me that an offer in the middle is more than fair for both sides.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Miller, Carter, Jefferson, Harris on the books, do the Nets resign Krstic? -Petey</div> I believe so yes. I'm figuring he wants a shorter contract to give himself a chance to play healthy and earn a contract healthy...I'm thinking 3 years at 24 million with a team option 4th year at 9 million would probably be enough. It's around the same area as Gooden's contract...currently Gooden is averaging 11 and 8. Given Nenad isn't yet puting up stellar numbers only around 5 and 6.5 since getting back and given his best full season average was 13.5 and 6.5 than it seems to me that an offer in the middle is more than fair for both sides. </div> I'd think that puts the Nets over the Luxury tax. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Miller, Carter, Jefferson, Harris on the books, do the Nets resign Krstic? -Petey</div> I believe so yes. I'm figuring he wants a shorter contract to give himself a chance to play healthy and earn a contract healthy...I'm thinking 3 years at 24 million with a team option 4th year at 9 million would probably be enough. It's around the same area as Gooden's contract...currently Gooden is averaging 11 and 8. Given Nenad isn't yet puting up stellar numbers only around 5 and 6.5 since getting back and given his best full season average was 13.5 and 6.5 than it seems to me that an offer in the middle is more than fair for both sides. </div> I'd think that puts the Nets over the Luxury tax. -Petey </div> Actually if you add up the salaries of RJ, Miller, Harris, VC, Stromile, My proposed Nenad salary, Boone, Swat, Marcus we'd be at 61 million...we could sign our draft pick, a vet at minimum salary and a player like Boki at around 6 and be right at the luxury tax threshold next season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Miller, Carter, Jefferson, Harris on the books, do the Nets resign Krstic? -Petey</div> I believe so yes. I'm figuring he wants a shorter contract to give himself a chance to play healthy and earn a contract healthy...I'm thinking 3 years at 24 million with a team option 4th year at 9 million would probably be enough. It's around the same area as Gooden's contract...currently Gooden is averaging 11 and 8. Given Nenad isn't yet puting up stellar numbers only around 5 and 6.5 since getting back and given his best full season average was 13.5 and 6.5 than it seems to me that an offer in the middle is more than fair for both sides. </div> I'd think that puts the Nets over the Luxury tax. -Petey </div> Actually if you add up the salaries of RJ, Miller, Harris, VC, Stromile, My proposed Nenad salary, Boone, Swat, Marcus we'd be at 61 million...we could sign our draft pick, a vet at minimum salary and a player like Boki at around 6 and be right at the luxury tax threshold next season. </div> Their salaries for this or the next year? Be remarkable if they could do that. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stromile6 @ Feb 15 2008, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mikki Moore's season last year (in my opinion) was quite a bit due to Kidd... especially in the playoffs, I mean, it seemed like every basket he got was Kidd drawing attention away from him and finding him wide open under the bucket. In the Cavs series Z didn't even come near him the whole time.</div> I don't mean this at all personally, but I am so sick of hearing how Kidd made Moore's season or makes Josh Boone & Sean Williams. It's rewriting history based more on Kidd's reputation than on fact. Mikki Moore benefited more from Vince Carter on pick and rolls and pick and pops than he ever did from Kidd. For Josh Boone's first year, Marcus Williams was his best set up man per touch, and Carter was right there with Kidd in second. You only need to review this season to see how often Vince is the guy getting Sean Williams dunks and foul shot opportunities at the rim. Obviously Kidd gets the vast majority of assists to those guys in fast break situations. But in the half court offense, where most of the game is played, Carter was at least as (or more) prolific setting up those guys as Kidd and certainly deserves every bit as much credit as Kidd for helping their development.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Feb 15 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 15 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Miller, Carter, Jefferson, Harris on the books, do the Nets resign Krstic? -Petey</div> I believe so yes. I'm figuring he wants a shorter contract to give himself a chance to play healthy and earn a contract healthy...I'm thinking 3 years at 24 million with a team option 4th year at 9 million would probably be enough. It's around the same area as Gooden's contract...currently Gooden is averaging 11 and 8. Given Nenad isn't yet puting up stellar numbers only around 5 and 6.5 since getting back and given his best full season average was 13.5 and 6.5 than it seems to me that an offer in the middle is more than fair for both sides. </div> I'd think that puts the Nets over the Luxury tax. -Petey </div> Actually if you add up the salaries of RJ, Miller, Harris, VC, Stromile, My proposed Nenad salary, Boone, Swat, Marcus we'd be at 61 million...we could sign our draft pick, a vet at minimum salary and a player like Boki at around 6 and be right at the luxury tax threshold next season. </div> Their salaries for this or the next year? Be remarkable if they could do that. -Petey </div> Next year...don't get me wrong the numbers are extremely tight, but if we used just a 12 man roster and left 3 spots open yeah we could do all that and stay under the luxury tax.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 15 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stromile6 @ Feb 15 2008, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Mikki Moore's season last year (in my opinion) was quite a bit due to Kidd... especially in the playoffs, I mean, it seemed like every basket he got was Kidd drawing attention away from him and finding him wide open under the bucket. In the Cavs series Z didn't even come near him the whole time.</div> I don't mean this at all personally, but I am so sick of hearing how Kidd made Moore's season or makes Josh Boone & Sean Williams. It's rewriting history based more on Kidd's reputation than on fact. Mikki Moore benefited more from Vince Carter on pick and rolls and pick and pops than he ever did from Kidd. For Josh Boone's first year, Marcus Williams was his best set up man per touch, and Carter was right there with Kidd in second. You only need to review this season to see how often Vince is the guy getting Sean Williams dunks and foul shot opportunities at the rim. Obviously Kidd gets the vast majority of assists to those guys in fast break situations. But in the half court offense, where most of the game is played, Carter was at least as (or more) prolific setting up those guys as Kidd and certainly deserves every bit as much credit as Kidd for helping their development. </div> Actually, I'd like to pipe in here. A big reason for Sean Williams' production on offense is mostly Kidd and Wright. For the easy buckets, at least. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Kidd and Toine either penetrate and dish to Sean, or see Sean cutting in the lane and feed him the perfect pass. IMO it seems Antoine has some good chemistry with Sean, since he always seems to find Sean open, for a nice dunk. Moore and Boone's production, of course, is just like you said: While Kidd gets them a bunch of easy buckets, it was just as much Vince and Marcus feeding them as it was Kidd.
