I wouldnt consider him a superstar player anymore, hes not on the same level as guys like wade,kobe, lebron, kg, t-mac. He was at one point in his career but watching him play hes not even exciting to watch anymore, hes actually become a boring player. That 360 dunk the other day was an abbiration, i mean you would think that he would be one of the dunk leaders in the nba or at the very least on his own team! When i used to watch VC play before coming to jersey and even his first full year here his game was Attack the basket first Shoot second Pass third now its more like Pass first Shoot second Attack third hes gone in complete opposite direction of the player he used to be and its painful to watch especially knowing that hes not goin to get any better over the next 3 years while were stuck with him for big money too. In my book hes just been a dissapointment and obviously we werent goin to be a better team without him if we didnt sign him over the summer, but honestly how much worse could we be than we are now? and at least we would have alot of cap space to play with what do you guys think?
I don't know if there ever was a time I would have put him on the same level as those guys. Was he an exciting player? Sure. I supposed you could say he was a superstar based on that, but he doesn't have that killer instict like Kobe, KG, and LeBron have
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToddMacCulloch11 @ Feb 15 2008, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know if there ever was a time I would have put him on the same level as those guys. Was he an exciting player? Sure. I supposed you could say he was a superstar based on that, but he doesn't have that killer instict like Kobe, KG, and LeBron have</div> VC was a consistent all-star starter and was always top 5 in voting, if im not mistaken he was the leading vote getter last year, and now he didnt even get picked as a reserve!! that is a drastic change for a player, i would like to know what VC thinks about this
Ah yes, the periodic dump on Vince post. The Kidd trade stuff was just a temporary distraction but the dump on Vince fevah is back! Carry on.
uhhh.. no, he shoots to much, rarely drives to the basket anymore, defense is worse and he sux at shooting
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, the periodic dump on Vince post. The Kidd trade stuff was just a temporary distraction but the dump on Vince fevah is back! Carry on.</div> vc has been horrific so far, ya homer. we wouldnt be looking to move him if not
If this Kidd trade happens, expect to see more of a passing Vince. Right now, he's the best playmaker on the team, and that's exactly what we'll need from him. IMO he's turning into a role player now. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing, depending on who else we have on the team. Also, IMO, if we get Devin Harris, I believe it'll be a good thing to have a playmaker/shooter on the wings. Devin Harris likes penetration (haha), which will make it so Vince doesn't need to do it as much (seeing as he doesn't want to, anyways).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, the periodic dump on Vince post. The Kidd trade stuff was just a temporary distraction but the dump on Vince fevah is back! Carry on.</div> vc has been horrific so far, ya homer. we wouldnt be looking to move him if not </div> Vince hasn't been "horirfic" so far, ya schizophrenic douche. And they would trade anyone if the right deal came along.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, the periodic dump on Vince post. The Kidd trade stuff was just a temporary distraction but the dump on Vince fevah is back! Carry on.</div> vc has been horrific so far, ya homer. we wouldnt be looking to move him if not </div> Vince hasn't been "horirfic" so far, ya schizophrenic douche. And they would trade anyone if the right deal came along. </div> how can you say he hasn't? what can possibly lead you to say he hasnt? his shooting percetnage sucks, rj is outscoring him etc.. homer
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>how can you say he hasn't? what can possibly lead you to say he hasnt? his shooting percetnage sucks, rj is outscoring him etc.. homer</div> Carter is shooting it at 44.5%, which is better than guys like Joe Johnson and Ray Allen and about the same as Paul Pierce. They must be having horrific seasons as well. And while RJ has been scoring the ball well this season Carter still dishes the ball better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah yes, the periodic dump on Vince post. The Kidd trade stuff was just a temporary distraction but the dump on Vince fevah is back! Carry on.</div> It really is tiresome, isn't it? +/- (Roland) rating is probably the best, most fair statistic to compare the impact any one player has on the performance of his team. It's not perfect, but if you exclude players who play a relatively small number of minutes, it's very good. It's reliability is born out if you look at the +/- for the players on any team in the league, e.g.: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708DAL.HTM for Dallas http://www.82games.com/0708/0708PHO.HTM for Phoenix http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR.HTM for Toronto Here are the ratings for the Nets through 2/12/08: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708NJN.HTM Only 4 Nets with significant playing time have a net positive impact: Boone, Jefferson, Kidd, and Carter. Guess who's first? Carter with a net 10.7 positive impact. Kidd is second at 7.3, well over 3 points lower (Jefferson and Boone are 3.3 and 3.2 respectively). So in a season where he's frequently been playing on one leg when he should have been sitting out healing, in a season where he's trying earnestly to adjust his shot selection and offensive instincts to suit his coach and teammates, in a system altered this year to get Jefferson much more involved as a scorer, and in a season where the "leader" has quit on the team and helped to destroy morale, Carter is still the player that easily has the most positive impact on the court. Yet he's the dog, he's the wuss, he's the problem. Right. Vince has sucked (comparatively) this season. But what does that say about how much more his teammates have sucked?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>how can you say he hasn't? what can possibly lead you to say he hasnt? his shooting percetnage sucks, rj is outscoring him etc.. homer</div> Carter is shooting it at 44.5%, which is better than guys like Joe Johnson and Ray Allen and about the same as Paul Pierce. They must be having horrific seasons as well. And while RJ has been scoring the ball well this season Carter still dishes the ball better. </div> actually, ray and joe are having down years and pierce is shooting a tad higher then vc. of course vince dishes the ball well, thats about all he has left.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If this Kidd trade happens, expect to see more of a passing Vince. Right now, he's the best playmaker on the team, and that's exactly what we'll need from him.</div> No, we'll need from him what we needed all season, scoring. He can pass the ball once in a while. I<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>MO he's turning into a role player now. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing, depending on who else we have on the team.</div> I agree. He has the skills of a star but a mindset of a role player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>actually, ray and joe are having down years and pierce is shooting a tad higher then vc. of course vince dishes the ball well, thats about all he has left.</div> Uh? So that means you think guys like Allen, Johnson and Pierce are having horrific years as well? And Carter is a good scorer, rebounder, and playmaker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (go nets @ Feb 15 2008, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToddMacCulloch11 @ Feb 15 2008, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know if there ever was a time I would have put him on the same level as those guys. Was he an exciting player? Sure. I supposed you could say he was a superstar based on that, but he doesn't have that killer instict like Kobe, KG, and LeBron have</div> VC was a consistent all-star starter and was always top 5 in voting, if im not mistaken he was the leading vote getter last year, and now he didnt even get picked as a reserve!! that is a drastic change for a player, i would like to know what VC thinks about this </div> Starting in the allstar game is about who is the most popular, not who is the best. If it wasn't for the fan vote, would he have made it all those years?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>actually, ray and joe are having down years and pierce is shooting a tad higher then vc. of course vince dishes the ball well, thats about all he has left.</div> Uh? So that means you think guys like Allen, Johnson and Pierce are having horrific years as well? And Carter is a good scorer, rebounder, and playmaker. </div> why is it all about stats with you defending VC? any sane person can see he's as inconsistent as boki and gets paid 3 times as much. this has nothing to do with ray allen or joe johnson
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>why is it all about stats with you defending VC? any sane person can see he's as inconsistent as boki and gets paid 3 times as much. this has nothing to do with ray allen or joe johnson</div> What the hell? YOU are the one who first started using stats to describe what a "horrific" season Carter was having. And Carter, along with Jefferson, have really been the only reliable scorers on this team. Also with Marcus injured for most of the season, he has been the 2nd best facilitator. He has played hurt and despite it has played well -- not great -- but well. Still can't come up with an answer about guys like Allen, Johnson and Pierce who are comparable to Carter, eh?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>why is it all about stats with you defending VC? any sane person can see he's as inconsistent as boki and gets paid 3 times as much. this has nothing to do with ray allen or joe johnson</div> What the hell? YOU are the one who first started using stats to describe what a "horrific" season Carter was having. And Carter, along with Jefferson, have really been the only reliable scorers on this team. Also with Marcus injured for most of the season, he has been the 2nd best facilitator. He has played hurt and despite it has played well -- not great -- but well. Still can't come up with an answer about guys like Allen, Johnson and Pierce who are comparable to Carter, eh? </div> thats it right there, i said vince was having a horrific season then you came up with the ray allen, joe johnson BS. then you mentioned the stats and such. honestly, you can judge him by his stats, people who've never seen him can look at his stats that he averages 20/5/5 but thats not the case, one game you'll see him dominate and then next he'll put up a 5-16 in a blowout but of course, its about the stats, right?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 15 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>why is it all about stats with you defending VC? any sane person can see he's as inconsistent as boki and gets paid 3 times as much. this has nothing to do with ray allen or joe johnson</div> What the hell? YOU are the one who first started using stats to describe what a "horrific" season Carter was having. And Carter, along with Jefferson, have really been the only reliable scorers on this team. Also with Marcus injured for most of the season, he has been the 2nd best facilitator. He has played hurt and despite it has played well -- not great -- but well. Still can't come up with an answer about guys like Allen, Johnson and Pierce who are comparable to Carter, eh? </div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 15 2008, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>uhhh.. no, he shoots to much, rarely drives to the basket anymore, defense is worse and he sux at shooting</div> He didn't just used stats, he used his observations of VC as well (which I agree with, for the most part). Allen's older, and also doesn't have to do as much with Pierce and Garnett on his team. Pierce has really stepped his game up, and is undoubtedly playing way better than Carter, with or without the other 2 all-stars. Johnson has taken a step back this season, and isn't even all-star worthy IMO. Actually, I'd be interested in what you'd have to say in response to Jizzy's 1st post (above).
