oh no

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Feb 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
He would
</div>

Pretty big assumption that he would be healthy enough to play

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the game changing into a small line-up run n gun type of game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the game changing into a small line-up run n gun type of game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
I have a feeling the team will be RJ's...which would be great cause he's vocal enough to be a leader.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.
</div>
I thought Carter is gone for O'neal? (If the trade happens)

 

This is just a rumor that will never be true. Thorn is trying to make the team faster not slower. The deal for mike miller is more believable.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Feb 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
He would
</div>

Pretty big assumption that he would be healthy enough to play
</div>

Doesn't matter, Frank loves playing injured players big minutes...no matter how poorly they're playing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.
</div>
I thought Carter is gone for O'neal? (If the trade happens)
</div>
Sorry I'm extremely tired and I meant Boki to the 2 as well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"</div>

Exactly. He makes the team worse and the contract situation better - it's Kiki's Denver plan all over again!

The key is clearing cap space for Summer 2010 when EVERYONE becomes a free agent. If we've got a new arena and some nice young parts in Harris, Boone, Swat, we could be in a very good situation going after a LeBron or Wade.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"</div>

Exactly. He makes the team worse and the contract situation better - it's Kiki's Denver plan all over again!

The key is clearing cap space for Summer 2010 when EVERYONE becomes a free agent. If we've got a new arena and some nice young parts in Harris, Boone, Swat, we could be in a very good situation going after a LeBron or Wade.
</div>

You guys who are talking about cap space are forgetting one thing: a free agent signing the magnitude of what you're talking about is very unlikely to be done in the absence of a S&T because the incoming player wants (and will get) a maximum deal. Very few teams -- and none who could compete seriously for a title the next year -- would be able to sign such a player outright because they are going to have to have very good, reasonably high-salaried players already in place. That means their payroll will already be close to cap limits, especially after the value of all trade exceptions and the MLE are added (which the CBA requires for free agent signing purposes if the team is under on outright salary). That means you won't have the necessary cap space to sign someone at 20M+ per year. You are going to have to do it via trade, which will require sending a lot of salary back. That's where the contract of someone like Carter or Jefferson will be invaluable. You can combine that salaried player with other consideration to facilitate the FA coming in a S&T.

Otherwise you are going to have to totally gut the team and say, "LeBron, please come rebuild with us. We know you are leaving your home state, where you are deified, because you want to win a title now. You can come here and babysit our roster, which consists primarily of young players still on their rookie contracts and a couple of good vets with 3-6 years experience. Then, with luck, we might have a championship caliber roster around you in 4 years."

Why and the heck would he do that? He could just stay in Cleveland. You are going to need at least a couple of highly regarded veteran players, who will ergo be earning big salaries, to attract a big time free agent with the promise of imminent, realistic championship aspirations. And that means you're going to need at least one other high-salaried player to send the other way.

All this run to dump Carter immediately is seriously misguided. If you're not removing one of the vets that could be key in attracting James, you may be removing the very contract that might be necessary to acquire him down the road. More importantly, if you are not still trying to win now, you seriously damage your credibility with young players in whom you are trying to instill a culture of winning and who need as much forging in the fires of the playoffs as possible. There's an important message for Williamses and Krstics and Boones and Harrises to get RIGHT NOW and that is that they are a playoff caliber team without Jason Kidd. If you want Sean Williams to be a valuable piece to a championship in 3 years, then you better let him get his feet wet as soon as possible.

Then there is the fact that Carter is bound to have one of the best months of his career sometime between now and the end of the season. He's had a number of player of the month awards in Jersey, and most have followed some perceived crisis with the team and particularly with his production. He will be extremely motivated by Kidd's departure, and at the very least you build his trade value by letting him play through to the end of the season.

The biggest mistake this team could make right now is trading Carter, especially for a thug like Randolph or a chronically injured O'Neal.

 

LeBron isn't going to want to rebuild with us but if we had the Harris and Williams on this team playing good basketball, then I'm sure he'd consider it.

Now if we drop to the bottom year after year, I doubt he would come here but each day he seems more angry with Cavs managment.

 

we better be getitng mike miller then because our SG spot will be vacant

 

I've always liked O'Neal as a player more than Vince. Can't say why, I just think he cares more about the team's success than his own personal success.

I do agree that he's got major injury issues, and it would probably make the team worse to trade for him. But I like him better as a player and I think he improves our cap situation (mostly because I think Carter's contract is terrible). Plus, picks are worth a lot, especially in a sign-and-trade, especially if they belonged to Indiana.

Really, I just want to like the players I'm rooting for. The Kidd for Harris & Diop trade was good on that front. A Carter for O'Neal swap would be good on that front as well (although I'm probably in the minority on that one).

 

i dont want oneal unless we ge a SG in return.

 

PLEASE J.O. NOT Z-RO, J.O. LET IT BE J.O. PLEASE !!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 18 2008, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"</div>

Exactly. He makes the team worse and the contract situation better - it's Kiki's Denver plan all over again!

The key is clearing cap space for Summer 2010 when EVERYONE becomes a free agent. If we've got a new arena and some nice young parts in Harris, Boone, Swat, we could be in a very good situation going after a LeBron or Wade.
</div>

... Yeah, lets pass on Kiki's plan. Who were the FA that walked away from their money? Who signed a nuge contract instead? What has happened since?

PASS.

-Petey
</div>

As far as "walking away from money" goes, I get the impression that the New York market is a big deal for someone like Wade or LeBron. Plus, don't discount the Jay-Z influence.

I do agree we shouldn't reach, and I think neither Kiki nor Thorn has shown particular skill on the free agent market. With that said, I like the idea clearing out and starting over, especially with a core of Harris, Diop, Boone, Swat and possibly RJ. Those guys, to me, all seem like championship level role players, and that's before all the coming draft picks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 18 2008, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My point is you trade a more certain outcome for a crap shoot. For every major FA moved, we can name 20 that haven't? How many role players do we see moved, compare to role players? Usually who fars out better?

-Petey</div>

Yeah, but the other side is that when you're bad, you get good draft picks. Look at Denver - they shot themselves in the foot signing Kenyon Martin, but their franchise is still one of the best in the league because they drafted Carmelo Anthony. I think that between the two processes there's a better than average chance we'd get a franchise-level player (a description that no longer applies to Carter).

 

I think it's actually impossible to trade for Jermaine and get Miller as well. Magloire has to be used in both which we cannot so I don't know if this would be good then if our SG turns out to be Ager.