Possible 3 way deal

Wait till the offseason to trade Vince.

Let him at least try to put up half a good season. Then, he'll be at a higher value, possibly at a higher demand, and we'll get more for him. Or, maybe wait until the draft.

Or, maybe keeping Vince will work out for us. Ya never know. I'd just say unless we can get an extremely good deal for him, we shouldn't trade Carter.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ondatbap @ Feb 19 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>so would you be a nets fan if they were last place and rj was the best player and he was scared to take last shot every games rj gets his point off of passes for Kidd and wow Kidd is gone so no more easy shots, Vince is always doubled team and getting hacked, but hey trade him i guess it's quickest way to become the knicks with good cap space lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div>


yep nets fan for life. good times and bad times. people who wanna jump ship cause their favorite player switch jerseys can me I'm here for life. It doesn't matter to me anyway last place doesn't matter to me.

Plus you can say that VC is better than Rip but compare what they have done in the playoffs then who is the better player?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAMES.SLIMM @ Feb 19 2008, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would like to know who is Thorn going to sign in the off season to replace Vince if he is traded ? All his detractors are talking about how great it would be to have the cap space and how it would be great to just get rid of Vince but not one person is mentioning what players or player would be brought in to replace Vince Carters production</div>

Thorn can always try to reunite RJ with his buddy from Arizona this summer...

 

I would do Vince and Nenad for Crawford and Curry...
Crawford is a solid ballhandler and great shooter...would compliment Devin.
Curry is a scorer who doesnt rebound or play great defense...would compliment Josh...

I also think we should deal Diop now. He's got value and might be attractive to a western conference team looking for a backup center...

 

This is just idiotic. If the Nets could get both the Heat's and Knick's first-round picks, it would be fascinating, but there's no reason to give Carter away just for cap space. The Nets already have cap space!

Carter was an absolute monster last year . . . how quickly everyone forgets . . . . after the all-star break last year, Carter averaged 26.3 PPG on 45% Shooting, including 1.9 3-pointers . . . 6.5 rebounds . . . 5.4 assists . . . 2.7 TOs . . . 0.8 steals . . . .

Let's lower the bar. This season, how many players in the NBA are averaging 22.0 PPG, 4.5 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 45% shooting, and 1.5 three-pointers?

Answer:

TWO: Kobe and LeBron. [both of whom commit far more turnovers]

That's it.

If Carter was showing signs of "declining," he must have been a heck of a player in his prime.

Carter's contract may be a year too long, but based on his performance since becoming a Net, he CLEARLY deserves the salary he is making this year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 20 2008, 08:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is just idiotic. If the Nets could get both the Heat's and Knick's first-round picks, it would be fascinating, but there's no reason to give Carter away just for cap space. The Nets already have cap space!

Carter was an absolute monster last year . . . how quickly everyone forgets . . . . after the all-star break last year, Carter averaged 26.3 PPG on 45% Shooting, including 1.9 3-pointers . . . 6.5 rebounds . . . 5.4 assists . . . 2.7 TOs . . . 0.8 steals . . . .

Let's lower the bar. This season, how many players in the NBA are averaging 22.0 PPG, 4.5 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 45% shooting, and 1.5 three-pointers?

Answer:

TWO: Kobe and LeBron. [both of whom commit far more turnovers]

That's it.

If Carter was showing signs of "declining," he must have been a heck of a player in his prime.

Carter's contract may be a year too long, but based on his performance since becoming a Net, he CLEARLY deserves the salary he is making this year.</div>


Only in my wildest Net fandom dreams would I see us doing that and landing both Rose and Jordan then signing Brand or Arenas. If that were the outcome of dealing Carter, then sign me up

 

Here's another one. Hey, Carter has been terrible this year, right? How many NBA players are averaging 20.0 points, 42.5% shooting from the field, 4.5 rebounds, and 4.0 assists?

Answer: SEVEN (Dirk, Caron, Manu, LeBron, Kobe, Pierce, and Vince). With 5.6 rebounds and 5.2 assists per game, Vince doesn't just make the cutoff, either. [Note, the shooting percentage limit just serves to eliminate Baron Davis from this group] Of those seven, Vince is roughly tied with LeBron for the best assist-to-turnover ratio.

And this is a terrible year for him! He is hurt! Playing in an offense where he is not the primary focus! Does everyone forget just how valuable he is when healthy?

 

he makes an interesting point about carter tho, even tho hes not the exciting player he used to be

he still produces good numbers with the best of them, trading him for nothing except for capspace i would consider a stupid move

at least in the kidd trade we got harris and diop along with picks

if we can get something similiar for carter ill understand

but not just for cap space, thats retarded, at least 1st rd picks

 

I'd accept the argument that Carter's defense is mediocre and you have to take that into account as well. However, I WISH that carter was the "weak link" in this team's defense. He's not. If Carter was the "weak link," then his teammates could cover up for him, or he could switch off onto a less-dynamic SF or PG when necessary. But NO ONE is playing defense. You can't hold Carter solely responsible for the team's defensive lapses!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 20 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd accept the argument that Carter's defense is mediocre and you have to take that into account as well. However, I WISH that carter was the "weak link" in this team's defense. He's not. If Carter was the "weak link," then his teammates could cover up for him, or he could switch off onto a less-dynamic SF or PG when necessary. But NO ONE is playing defense. You can't hold Carter solely responsible for the team's defensive lapses!</div>
i agree, when Vince is determined hes at best a average Defender nothing special. Sometimes i forget how intelligent of a poster you are Dumpy.

 

For the record Im against trading Vince for nothing, and now the fact that Harris out for 1 or 2 more weeks, and now we are trying to trade Vince wow! So who will start Ricky Davis? lol Ricky can't even start in Miami, oh and Jason Williams ? we already have marcus,da,and harris this makes no sense, if they do this, it will be the end of our season. hello lottery ans we will need to find a starting shooting guard and a good 6th man..........i say keep vince and see if they can get things moving........

 

OK, one last thing. Do you think that a premier free agent will sign with the Nets to play with a roster of crap? What sort of advice do you think they'd get from Dwayne Wade right about now? Just because you have money to spend doesn't mean that a free agent will accept it! If you completely strip the roster and hope to sign a couple of free agents, it won't happen, and it will be a disater. You will end up having to overspend for some mid-level free agent that is NOT a star and has NO potential. You will have a roster full of Jamaal Magloires.

Right now the Nets are starting to put together a decent young core, but it is no better than other teams with decent young cores. If the Nets trade Carter for expiring contracts and nothing else, it will signal that this team will not be competitive for a LONG time. It will look like November 2004.

Again, if you could get, say, Miami and NY's first-round picks this year by trading Carter, then it would be a fascinating study. But absent something like that, I think you're just dooming this team to a terrible dark future.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 20 2008, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, one last thing. Do you think that a premier free agent will sign with the Nets to play with a roster of crap? What sort of advice do you think they'd get from Dwayne Wade right about now? Just because you have money to spend doesn't mean that a free agent will accept it! If you completely strip the roster and hope to sign a couple of free agents, it won't happen, and it will be a disater. You will end up having to overspend for some mid-level free agent that is NOT a star and has NO potential. You will have a roster full of Jamaal Magloires.

Right now the Nets are starting to put together a decent young core, but it is no better than other teams with decent young cores. If the Nets trade Carter for expiring contracts and nothing else, it will signal that this team will not be competitive for a LONG time. It will look like November 2004.

Again, if you could get, say, Miami and NY's first-round picks this year by trading Carter, then it would be a fascinating study. But absent something like that, I think you're just dooming this team to a terrible dark future.</div>



i second that!!!!!!!!!!11111 good post!

 

Also for the record......why is everybody talking about who they want from the knicks , i want nate, i want crawford, i want lee, i want balkman.........get real your not getting them Miami is said to be getting curry but we get drum roll please Dicky Lavis, and Ason Pilliams, bascially im saying we get nobody, and we look to the draft .....no free agent wants to come to a place when you have no stable foundation if we keep carter we can probably sign the peice we need to to him rj boone and swat. and please dont tell me you can replace him like he is nothing.

 

I doubt Thorn would even look this way unless New York or Miami includes this years 1st Round picks and future picks

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 20 2008, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, one last thing. Do you think that a premier free agent will sign with the Nets to play with a roster of crap? What sort of advice do you think they'd get from Dwayne Wade right about now? Just because you have money to spend doesn't mean that a free agent will accept it! If you completely strip the roster and hope to sign a couple of free agents, it won't happen, and it will be a disater. You will end up having to overspend for some mid-level free agent that is NOT a star and has NO potential. You will have a roster full of Jamaal Magloires.

Right now the Nets are starting to put together a decent young core, but it is no better than other teams with decent young cores. If the Nets trade Carter for expiring contracts and nothing else, it will signal that this team will not be competitive for a LONG time. It will look like November 2004.

Again, if you could get, say, Miami and NY's first-round picks this year by trading Carter, then it would be a fascinating study. But absent something like that, I think you're just dooming this team to a terrible dark future.</div>

You're right to an extent but I don't buy it that all the major free agents would ignore the Nets. They have a decent future with the picks and young players they're piling up, and the East is soft. Plus the team is close to New York City (some people do factor in that of course).

Carter attracts fans so that makes up for his bad contract somewhat, but I just think you're going to another extreme. If the Nets keep or trade Vince, they'll get by about just as well. Both sides make good points.

 

How about a 4-way trade, where we swing this cap space over to the Griz for the Miller, Lowry, Cardinal package they're offering Cleveland? I agree with Dumpy about the uncertainty of cap space and to a slightly lesser extent the value of Carter (especially on a team w/o Kidd), but I'd have a hard time being upset about moving him and taking on Cardinal's contract if the Nets came out with Miller and Lowry.

caveat: I didn't look at the numbers at all to see if they match. I just saw that Memphis is taking crap for gold, and figured they're binging on cap space.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 20 2008, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, one last thing. Do you think that a premier free agent will sign with the Nets to play with a roster of crap? What sort of advice do you think they'd get from Dwayne Wade right about now? Just because you have money to spend doesn't mean that a free agent will accept it! If you completely strip the roster and hope to sign a couple of free agents, it won't happen, and it will be a disater. You will end up having to overspend for some mid-level free agent that is NOT a star and has NO potential. You will have a roster full of Jamaal Magloires.

Right now the Nets are starting to put together a decent young core, but it is no better than other teams with decent young cores. If the Nets trade Carter for expiring contracts and nothing else, it will signal that this team will not be competitive for a LONG time. It will look like November 2004.

Again, if you could get, say, Miami and NY's first-round picks this year by trading Carter, then it would be a fascinating study. But absent something like that, I think you're just dooming this team to a terrible dark future.</div>

I agree with most everything. I'd definitely not want to trade Carter solely for cap space. And if we don't get both picks, then no deal.

The way I see it, we could either 1) take a chance at the FA market. This is extremely risky, and, in the case of teams such as the Clippers, it doesn't work.

Or we could 2) play the draft. Sometimes this works, with Portland as a great example, and the Bulls up until this season. Maybe even look at Boston, they did pretty good with their picks and young players. Half got traded for a superstar, the other half are helping the team to the best record in the NBA. Of course, there is always the Atlantas of the league, who, no matter how hard they try, just can't get out of the lottery.

Oh, and on another note, with your other posts: Carter's putting up great numbers. Some nights, he's playing great. But the losses REALLY diminish those stats. The fact that Kobe and Lebron have really good teams (even Lakers pre-Gasol) sort of enhance their stats.

Plus, there's something you don't see in the statline: His level of effort, and his defense. Both have to come in question. I mean, some nights, you'll see him trying hard, and other nights, he'll just sit on the perimeter and watch until they give him the ball to throw up an ugly shot (which sucks for him. I actually feel bad that he has to deal with this offensively shitty team on some nights).

While I wouldn't completely discount the fact that he has been injured, and have to give him some recognition for what he does on some nights, he's just not consistent. He doesn't give his all every night, and it gets annoying to see him throwing up bricks when he could be attacking. I just gotta say, he's not looking like a player who really deserved all of that 60 million. In my eyes, at least.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 20 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Plus, there's something you don't see in the statline: His level of effort, and his defense. Both have to come in question. I mean, some nights, you'll see him trying hard, and other nights, he'll just sit on the perimeter and watch until they give him the ball to throw up an ugly shot (which sucks for him. I actually feel bad that he has to deal with this offensively shitty team on some nights).

While I wouldn't completely discount the fact that he has been injured, and have to give him some recognition for what he does on some nights, he's just not consistent. He doesn't give his all every night, and it gets annoying to see him throwing up bricks when he could be attacking. I just gotta say, he's not looking like a player who really deserved all of that 60 million. In my eyes, at least.</div>

I can't disagree with that. My point (mostly) is that, coming off of last year, you can't really argue that he didn't deserve $13 million dollars THIS year. Last year, especially down the stretch, he was giving effort every night. Whether he doesn't have any incentive; he wasn't being pushed by Kidd; injured; distracted by something in his personal life; or some combination of them, this year is clearly different. It seemed like he was dogging it to start the season--remember RJ took some shots at him for "finally joining us in the season?"--but just when he was untracked, he got hurt, and I'm not surprised that the effects have lasted this long. However, a half-assed Vince is still a decent player.

Part of the problem with the criticisms is that, had Vince not played for three weeks or a month until his ankle was better, he would have been criticised. He toughed it out the best he could, and his performance suffered (if you believe, as I do, that the injury was the sole cause of his poor play, which could easily be wrong). It seems to me that anyone who would have ripped him for not playing for a month has no right to rip him for playing poorly for the last month.

However, he appears to be improving, and the week off can only have helped. If you compare his stats on zero days rest to his stats on one or more days rest, you see a trend--he is definitely better with at least one day off between games, which could suggest that the injury is a factor. Get this: Since January 1, in the second game of the seven back-to-backs, Vince is averaging just 16.7 points on 42% shooting . . . and he is just 6-20 TOTAL on three-pointers. [that inlcudes one 29-point game on 10-17 shooting]. However, when he has one or two days off, he has produced much better. Just check the game logs. six of his seven games of 25 or more points were with at least one day off. All ten of the games that he took at least 18 shots were with at least one day off. Hopefully, he is getting better. Let's see how he ends the season.