<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That year too long and escalation are HUGE amounts of money. I want to see him play with the new team, too, but I want them to get rid of the contract more. Those wouldn't be opposing factors if they didn't screw up his contract negotiation.</div> Okay, let's explore that. Let's assume you got rid of Vince's contract this year and even got either a young prospect or draft pick to go with it. What would you do with the money NOW? What key free agent is coming available this year or next that you think the Nets would have a good shot at landing with that money?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 20 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> Last April Vince had quite possibly the greatest month-long offensive performance in team history, leading the team into the playoffs. 29 PPG on 48% shooting . . . nearly three 3-pointers a game . . . 7.1 rebounds . . . 6.7 assists . . . maybe his performances after the trade that brought him here rival that, but he didn't have the assists then. Vince was also huge against Toronto in the playoffs. yes, he flamed out against Cleveland, but some of that was due to injury, and it doesn't take away from his entire body of work.</div> And what's he worth? Two expiring contracts and nothing else. Why? His contract is an enormous mistake. </div> I agree with this viewpoint. If he was worth his contract, people wouldn't be so hesitant to trade for him. He's clearly available, and not a single playoff contender is interested. Our options are the Knicks and the Pacers. I think that's pretty telling.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hustler @ Feb 19 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's going to have another "ankle injury" soon.</div> <span style="color:#FF0000">EDIT-Keep it civil-Real</span> BY the way if it wasn't for Vince, Alvin Willams would have been a nobody. (notice how he left the league right after VC left TO, o right he was injured)
lol, his sad cuz he knows his gonna get traded soon too, maybe not by deadline but in the off season, and he no longer is the toronto VC
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JamCity15 @ Feb 19 2008, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hustler @ Feb 19 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's going to have another "ankle injury" soon.</div> EDIT BY the way if it wasn't for Vince, Alvin Willams would have been a nobody. (notice how he left the league right after VC left TO, o right he was injured) </div> Uh u know wats funny? the nets r starting to rebuild and next yr raps will be a contender funny how the league works, and its funny how even with VC, NJ got nothing, the "big 3" lmao
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>EDIT</div> Is that really necessary? Why not act mature, honestly?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That year too long and escalation are HUGE amounts of money. I want to see him play with the new team, too, but I want them to get rid of the contract more. Those wouldn't be opposing factors if they didn't screw up his contract negotiation.</div> Okay, let's explore that. Let's assume you got rid of Vince's contract this year and even got either a young prospect or draft pick to go with it. What would you do with the money NOW? What key free agent is coming available this year or next that you think the Nets would have a good shot at landing with that money? </div> But my post doesn't say they shouldn't have signed him. It says they gave him a ridiculous contract. I was not for trading him while his value was so low. I fully understand why he was not traded in the offseason. As discussed ad nauseum, the time to trade him was after his incredible 2005 season. What a return on their investment they could have gotten then!
nah, one think you cant criticize vince for is not playing, even when he's hurt he still manages to play and that always doesnt favor the nets but atleast he's trying to earn his contract
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>god i wish we never resigned vince</div> do you not remember how absolutely incredible he was the last two years? I could understand voicing a complaint about the LENGTH of the contract . . . but sign him at all? Are you high? You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nets go back to more ISOs for Vince now . . . and that he goes absolutely nuts. </div> I'm very close to putting Jizzy on "ignore". (You can do that here, right?) </div> Last April Vince had quite possibly the greatest month-long offensive performance in team history, leading the team into the playoffs. 29 PPG on 48% shooting . . . nearly three 3-pointers a game . . . 7.1 rebounds . . . 6.7 assists . . . maybe his performances after the trade that brought him here rival that, but he didn't have the assists then. Vince was also huge against Toronto in the playoffs. yes, he flamed out against Cleveland, but some of that was due to injury, and it doesn't take away from his entire body of work. </div> And what's he worth? Two expiring contracts and nothing else. Why? His contract is an enormous mistake. </div> That's why it doesn't make sense to trade him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Feb 19 2008, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 19 2008, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>god i wish we never resigned vince</div> do you not remember how absolutely incredible he was the last two years? I could understand voicing a complaint about the LENGTH of the contract . . . but sign him at all? Are you high? You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Nets go back to more ISOs for Vince now . . . and that he goes absolutely nuts. </div> I'm very close to putting Jizzy on "ignore". (You can do that here, right?) </div> Last April Vince had quite possibly the greatest month-long offensive performance in team history, leading the team into the playoffs. 29 PPG on 48% shooting . . . nearly three 3-pointers a game . . . 7.1 rebounds . . . 6.7 assists . . . maybe his performances after the trade that brought him here rival that, but he didn't have the assists then. Vince was also huge against Toronto in the playoffs. yes, he flamed out against Cleveland, but some of that was due to injury, and it doesn't take away from his entire body of work. </div> And what's he worth? Two expiring contracts and nothing else. Why? His contract is an enormous mistake. </div> That's why it doesn't make sense to trade him. </div> It makes sense to get out of his deal. It's pretty likely they will have to pay a stiff penalty one day to do that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 19 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nah, one think you cant criticize vince for is not playing, even when he's hurt he still manages to play and that always doesnt favor the nets but atleast he's trying to earn his contract</div> Im sorry did you say he earns his contract? come on the guy is just shooting for fun, his not playing like tmac, kobe or anyone at the same stage as him, his contract is way too big and its the exact reason why NJ wants to trade him for O'neal, if you really think about it, he only played well the first year he got to NJ, ever since then he has struggled.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>he only played well the first year he got to NJ, ever since then he has struggled.</div> 05-06 - 2nd year - 1,911 pts - #2 on nets scoring list - 24ppg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DnwzFKJYZc (part 1 of 5) 06-07 - 3rd year - 2,070 pts -#1 on nets scoring list - played in every game - 25ppg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xii7GgQXDKo (part 1 of 3) yeah i totally agree
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaxaMillion711 @ Feb 20 2008, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>he only played well the first year he got to NJ, ever since then he has struggled.</div> 05-06 - 2nd year - 1,911 pts - #2 on nets scoring list - 24ppg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DnwzFKJYZc (part 1 of 5) 06-07 - 3rd year - 2,070 pts -#1 on nets scoring list - played in every game - 25ppg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xii7GgQXDKo (part 1 of 3) yeah i totally agree </div> With struggling i mean performing well in the playoffs, the regular season dont matter, NJ nets got him so they can make a run for te playoffs and in the playoffs, first yr he comes in he takes them there, 2nd yr they loose to cavs in a no contest, 3rd yr hey look they have a lossing record, so is this player really worth the money?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That year too long and escalation are HUGE amounts of money. I want to see him play with the new team, too, but I want them to get rid of the contract more. Those wouldn't be opposing factors if they didn't screw up his contract negotiation.</div> Okay, let's explore that. Let's assume you got rid of Vince's contract this year and even got either a young prospect or draft pick to go with it. What would you do with the money NOW? What key free agent is coming available this year or next that you think the Nets would have a good shot at landing with that money? </div> But my post doesn't say they shouldn't have signed him. It says they gave him a ridiculous contract. I was not for trading him while his value was so low. I fully understand why he was not traded in the offseason. As discussed ad nauseum, the time to trade him was after his incredible 2005 season. What a return on their investment they could have gotten then! </div> Your post says "I want them to get rid of the contract more [than seeing him with the new team]". That means you, like many here, apparently, want him gone NOW. My question is what would you do this summer with the salary relief that makes the need to trade him so urgent?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And what's he worth? Two expiring contracts and nothing else. Why? His contract is an enormous mistake.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with this viewpoint. If he was worth his contract, people wouldn't be so hesitant to trade for him. He's clearly available, and not a single playoff contender is interested. Our options are the Knicks and the Pacers. I think that's pretty telling.</div> O'Really? So your guys reasoning that Carter is overpaid and his contract was a huge mistake is determined by the level of interest he generates in trades rumors and the pieces it brings back to the Nets? So hypothetically, what if a trade with Carter were to happen where it brought in a big haul of valuable assets in picks, young talent, and expiring contracts? Would that then change your opinion of Carter's contract and his value as an asset and a player? Would you then consider his contract an amazing bargain? Or would you think Rod Thorn got away with robbery? What if the Knicks traded Jerome James to the Nets for Magloire and Sean Williams? Would that then mean you think Jerome James was a valuable asset and a player with a reasonable contract? Or would you be be sharpening your knives while thinking what a TERRIBLE trade Thorn made?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 20 2008, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That year too long and escalation are HUGE amounts of money. I want to see him play with the new team, too, but I want them to get rid of the contract more. Those wouldn't be opposing factors if they didn't screw up his contract negotiation.</div> Okay, let's explore that. Let's assume you got rid of Vince's contract this year and even got either a young prospect or draft pick to go with it. What would you do with the money NOW? What key free agent is coming available this year or next that you think the Nets would have a good shot at landing with that money? </div> But my post doesn't say they shouldn't have signed him. It says they gave him a ridiculous contract. I was not for trading him while his value was so low. I fully understand why he was not traded in the offseason. As discussed ad nauseum, the time to trade him was after his incredible 2005 season. What a return on their investment they could have gotten then! </div> Your post says "I want them to get rid of the contract more [than seeing him with the new team]". That means you, like many here, apparently, want him gone NOW. My question is what would you do this summer with the salary relief that makes the need to trade him so urgent? </div> Like I said, someday they will have to pay a lot to get rid of his contract. Now they can do it for free. I realize it's a shitty deal, but that's what happens when you do blatantly stupid things in the NBA. It's like joining the Army. Once you commit, there's no going back.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 20 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>O'Really? So your guys reasoning that Carter is overpaid and his contract was a huge mistake is determined by the level of interest he generates in trades rumors and the pieces it brings back to the Nets? So hypothetically, what if a trade with Carter were to happen where it brought in a big haul of valuable assets in picks, young talent, and expiring contracts? Would that then change your opinion of Carter's contract and his value as an asset and a player? Would you then consider his contract an amazing bargain? Or would you think Rod Thorn got away with robbery? What if the Knicks traded Jerome James to the Nets for Magloire and Sean Williams? Would that then mean you think Jerome James was a valuable asset and a player with a reasonable contract? Or would you be be sharpening your knives while thinking what a TERRIBLE trade Thorn made?</div> Kinda using a extreme example there with James. Of course that is a terrible deal. But to be fair no one is offering that type of package for Carter. And don't only look at what is rumored here in 2 expiring contracts, but how the Pacers are rumored to be put off for swapping him for JO, someone who is hurt. Even before the rumors I argued he was overpaid. Should had forced his hand when the teams with space burned up their $$ after what he had did the season before in stalling to sign an extension. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 20 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 19 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And what's he worth? Two expiring contracts and nothing else. Why? His contract is an enormous mistake.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with this viewpoint. If he was worth his contract, people wouldn't be so hesitant to trade for him. He's clearly available, and not a single playoff contender is interested. Our options are the Knicks and the Pacers. I think that's pretty telling.</div> O'Really? So your guys reasoning that Carter is overpaid and his contract was a huge mistake is determined by the level of interest he generates in trades rumors and the pieces it brings back to the Nets? So hypothetically, what if a trade with Carter were to happen where it brought in a big haul of valuable assets in picks, young talent, and expiring contracts? Would that then change your opinion of Carter's contract and his value as an asset and a player? Would you then consider his contract an amazing bargain? Or would you think Rod Thorn got away with robbery? What if the Knicks traded Jerome James to the Nets for Magloire and Sean Williams? Would that then mean you think Jerome James was a valuable asset and a player with a reasonable contract? Or would you be be sharpening your knives while thinking what a TERRIBLE trade Thorn made? </div> 1. Yes. Obviously. Is this question rhetorical? 2. I would still think his contract is a huge blundering sinkhole of a mistake and that some fool GM has lost his mind and call for an NBA investigation. 3. I would still think James' contract is one of the funniest signings I've ever heard of and I would e-mail David Stern and Ratner every day until Thorn is brought before congress Roger Clemens-style.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 20 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kinda using a extreme example there with James. Of course that is a terrible deal. But to be fair no one is offering that type of package for Carter. And don't only look at what is rumored here in 2 expiring contracts, but how the Pacers are rumored to be put off for swapping him for JO, someone who is hurt. Even before the rumors I argued he was overpaid. Should had forced his hand when the teams with space burned up their $$ after what he had did the season before in stalling to sign an extension. -Petey</div> First of all, I said a hypothetical trade with Carter. And, yeah, I know it was an extreme example. I used it just to make the point more clear. And the point is right in your response. That even despite trade rumors, some people have already determined he was overpaid and his contract being a mistake. I believe I've already been through this with you about Carters contract. You say he's overpaid because you keep saying the Nets had him cornered and could have low balled him. But I've already said a thousand times that wasn't the case. He had a player option. He had a player options. He had a player option. He wouldn't have opted out of the player option if he didn't have some deal in place. He wouldn't have opted out of the player option if he didn't have some deal in place. He wouldn't have opted out of the player option if he didn't have some deal in place.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Feb 19 2008, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Preaching to the choir, Dumpy. Vince is a victim of his own basketball skills/talent in that he makes his accomplishments look incredibly easy at times. Everyone therefore assumes he should do it all the time when, fact is, he doesn't have a consistent enough motor to do it every month or every week or every game. To paraphrase Pat Riley, "Intensity (hustle) is a talent." That's the one area of talent where Carter is clearly inferior to a Bryant or Kidd or Garnett. But he's also not getting paid (per year) anything close to what those guys are making yet he will still have his share of games where he will deliver as well as any of them can. Yes his performances have a high dynamic range, a high standard deviation from his norm. And I could easily see preferring one of those guys to Vince if you had a choice to obtain one of them. I can also see the point that his contract was too long, given his age and the fact that he's a player who has always relied substantially on athletic ability. But there is absolutely no argument for the fact that, per year, he's overpaid for what he's delivering, even this year, by far his worst as a Net. For a "mere" $13.? million, you have a player who, on any given night and even for any given MONTH of the season, can perform as good or better as any non-big in this league. In view of that, the level of disdain for him among some Nets fans is truly disgusting. Toronto fans, I can understand, since he did the same thing to them that Kidd did to NJ. But he has been a great teammate, and Rod Thorn has gone out of his way recently in public statements (and in responses to questions of problems between Kidd and Carter) to talk about what a great PERSON Carter is and that it is simply not in his personality to "not get along" with anyone. That counts for something, in my book. I'm glad this Kidd thing happened to Carter because it sensitizes him in a way he probably didn't feel before to what his trade demand meant to his teammates in Toronto (although there were some significant differences in the two situations). It can only make him a more determined player in the short term, and, if he can stay reasonably pain free in the ankle from here on, the Nets would be silly to not cash in on that.</div> Agreed some people on this board despise Vince and blame him for almost everything that goes wrong with this team, Kidd quits on the team and it's Vince Carters fault it's sad really
