He'd be great alongside another guard who can shoot, pass and defend, Brandon Roy would be a perfect fit next to him, Vince is a good fit too, but in terms of a more realistic/younger/cheaper option, someone like Mike Miller would be great. An athletic, defensive 3 would be best, like RJ in his younger days, who can also do some dirty work. Josh Smith or Howard would be great, but a Tayshaun Prince would be great. I'd look for another guy like that at the 4, although more of a focus on rebounding than defense if possible. David Lee would be great. And then a scoring center, who can also grab some rebounds. Biedrins would be great, but Brad Miller would be fine. And something like Ariza, Sean, and Watson as key bench players. The team winds up looking like: Harris/Watson Miller/Ariza Prince/Ariza Lee/Williams Miller/Williams If we could get a Manu/Biedrins/Turkoglu/Kirilenko or someone else to replace any of those, I think it'd look like quite the solid team.
Devin Harris is not a PG you can build a team around. I don't see him playing that well at SG either. He is way to undersized for the SG's in the East. The best thing is play him PG and have Marcus back him up for a year. Then, if need be, you can trade him for some picks and maybe some forwards. I don't see him having a high trade value at all. I think the best thing is not to build around Devin, but possibly around Jefferson if you can believe that. Sean Williams is a bit to raw still but him and Marcus can be a great duo someday.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (User01 @ Mar 6 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He'd be great alongside another guard who can shoot, pass and defend, Brandon Roy would be a perfect fit next to him, Vince is a good fit too, but in terms of a more realistic/younger/cheaper option, someone like Mike Miller would be great. An athletic, defensive 3 would be best, like RJ in his younger days, who can also do some dirty work. Josh Smith or Howard would be great, but a Tayshaun Prince would be great. I'd look for another guy like that at the 4, although more of a focus on rebounding than defense if possible. David Lee would be great. And then a scoring center, who can also grab some rebounds. Biedrins would be great, but Brad Miller would be fine. And something like Ariza, Sean, and Watson as key bench players. The team winds up looking like: Harris/Watson Miller/Ariza Prince/Ariza Lee/Williams Miller/Williams If we could get a Manu/Biedrins/Turkoglu/Kirilenko or someone else to replace any of those, I think it'd look like quite the solid team.</div> So essentially your solution is to put players that are better than him around him
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Mar 6 2008, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Mar 6 2008, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not sold on running Devin as a 2 guard. As a SG he'd be pretty one dimensional in our offense, because he's at his best with the ball in his hands; cutting to the basket or pulling up for a three; not coming off a screen for a catch-and-shoot. Plus until Vince leaves, this is really a moot point regarding significant minutes. Once he does leave, and there's an opportunity to start both Devin and Marcus (provided of course no SG draft or FA signing gets in the way, which is, however, a decent possibility) I'd prefer to start Marcus at SG. He's the one who's demonstrated the better ability to catch-and-shoot along with drive to the basket; albeit not as well as Devin, and certainly his game makes him a glorified combo-guard and not a true SG.</div> So you are comfortable with a future backcourt of Devin and Marcus as the starters? </div> Now? No. While I think that Marcus can get better (and am impressed that he's kept up a pretty steady level of play since the trade), he's not at the point where he's a starting guard in this league. On PG his decision making isn't there, and his shot isn't at the level I like for a starting SG. Doesn't mean he can't improve on one of these, but right now, no. Rather, if the Nets cannot draft a SG who can be a starter once Vince is gone, I would rather put Devin at point and Marcus at SG if that is the situation. </div> When is Vince gone in your scenario?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Mar 6 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I sat around trying to figure this out, and I honestly have no idea. Basically, Thorn's gotta dump RJ and Vince for as much value as he can get out of them. It can happen at any point between now and next year's trade deadline. But he's gotta dump those two guys, and he's gotta get value back. I have no idea how those deals would go down, but once those assets are acquired, then I think we can start to talk about a long term plan.</div> So do you want the Nets to miss the playoffs so that they have a shot in the lottery?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Mar 6 2008, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Devin Harris is not a PG you can build a team around. I don't see him playing that well at SG either. He is way to undersized for the SG's in the East. The best thing is play him PG and have Marcus back him up for a year. Then, if need be, you can trade him for some picks and maybe some forwards. I don't see him having a high trade value at all. I think the best thing is not to build around Devin, but possibly around Jefferson if you can believe that. Sean Williams is a bit to raw still but him and Marcus can be a great duo someday.</div> So you believe the Nets are best served by focusing on a future of Sean and Marcus? Well that is one way to help the Raptors.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Mar 6 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I sat around trying to figure this out, and I honestly have no idea. Basically, Thorn's gotta dump RJ and Vince for as much value as he can get out of them. It can happen at any point between now and next year's trade deadline. But he's gotta dump those two guys, and he's gotta get value back. I have no idea how those deals would go down, but once those assets are acquired, then I think we can start to talk about a long term plan.</div> So do you want the Nets to miss the playoffs so that they have a shot in the lottery? </div> At this stage i think I maybe a believer in that strategy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dream @ Mar 6 2008, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ummm is this a trick question ? you don't. There is no way in hell you build your team around Devin Harris everything right now is about setting up the cap room and expiring contracts to get him</div> same thing I was thinking when I read the title of the thread..............I still don't see how people thinks this trade hurt the Mavs.....Harris is a nice piece, but he's no Jason Kidd (even at this stage in his career) when it comes to running the point..............he'll always be a solid role player........that's about it. </div> If Devin isn't someone to build around (something I agree with), what do the Nets do with him? There are several NBA people that believe in him and want him as the PG for their team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Mar 6 2008, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Mar 6 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I sat around trying to figure this out, and I honestly have no idea. Basically, Thorn's gotta dump RJ and Vince for as much value as he can get out of them. It can happen at any point between now and next year's trade deadline. But he's gotta dump those two guys, and he's gotta get value back. I have no idea how those deals would go down, but once those assets are acquired, then I think we can start to talk about a long term plan.</div> So do you want the Nets to miss the playoffs so that they have a shot in the lottery? </div> At this stage i think I maybe a believer in that strategy. </div> BTW, I did reply to your question earlier in the thread. One of the question I have about attempting to go for the playoffs is why with so many players that need to be evaluated would the Nets not want to give everyone significant playing time to see what they can do?
Whoa, just because you can't build around him doesn't mean you can't hold onto him. The Nets had RJ/Martin/Kittles all in place before they got Kidd. I'm not saying lighting will strike twice but I like Devin and hes a good piece to have around when you do actually get that guy you can build a franchise around.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (User01 @ Mar 6 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He'd be great alongside another guard who can shoot, pass and defend, Brandon Roy would be a perfect fit next to him, Vince is a good fit too, but in terms of a more realistic/younger/cheaper option, someone like Mike Miller would be great. An athletic, defensive 3 would be best, like RJ in his younger days, who can also do some dirty work. Josh Smith or Howard would be great, but a Tayshaun Prince would be great. I'd look for another guy like that at the 4, although more of a focus on rebounding than defense if possible. David Lee would be great. And then a scoring center, who can also grab some rebounds. Biedrins would be great, but Brad Miller would be fine. And something like Ariza, Sean, and Watson as key bench players. The team winds up looking like: Harris/Watson Miller/Ariza Prince/Ariza Lee/Williams Miller/Williams If we could get a Manu/Biedrins/Turkoglu/Kirilenko or someone else to replace any of those, I think it'd look like quite the solid team.</div> Too bad this is the NBA and not a fantasy draft.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Mar 6 2008, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Devin Harris is not a PG you can build a team around. I don't see him playing that well at SG either. He is way to undersized for the SG's in the East. The best thing is play him PG and have Marcus back him up for a year. Then, if need be, you can trade him for some picks and maybe some forwards. I don't see him having a high trade value at all. I think the best thing is not to build around Devin, but possibly around Jefferson if you can believe that. Sean Williams is a bit to raw still but him and Marcus can be a great duo someday.</div> So you believe the Nets are best served by focusing on a future of Sean and Marcus? Well that is one way to help the Raptors. </div> I do believe Sean is a better build around then Marcus. Sean Williams has so much potential, it's scary. If the Nets trade and get a good PG again and a decent coach who knows how to use his rookies, then Sean will be a very good player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dark Defender @ Mar 6 2008, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whoa, just because you can't build around him doesn't mean you can't hold onto him. The Nets had RJ/Martin/Kittles all in place before they got Kidd. I'm not saying lighting will strike twice but I like Devin and hes a good piece to have around when you do actually get that guy you can build a franchise around.</div> How was RJ in place before Kidd? Isn't the decision to hold onto Devin a pure value proposition? He is no longer has a poison pill contract and he won't be a base year comp contract this summer. It will be much easier to get value for him than it would have been for Dallas.
I don't think the Nets are building around anyone. Seems everyone's name has been mentioned in rumors over the past few years. Transition sucks. It's a matter if the Nets think they'll get enough for player XYZ, if he remains a Net going fwd. Personally I enjoy watching Marcus playing. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dark Defender @ Mar 6 2008, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whoa, just because you can't build around him doesn't mean you can't hold onto him. The Nets had RJ/Martin/Kittles all in place before they got Kidd. I'm not saying lighting will strike twice but I like Devin and hes a good piece to have around when you do actually get that guy you can build a franchise around.</div> How was RJ in place before Kidd? Isn't the decision to hold onto Devin a pure value proposition? He is no longer has a poison pill contract and he won't be a base year comp contract this summer. It will be much easier to get value for him than it would have been for Dallas. </div> RJ was traded on draft night, Kidd was officially acquired a few weeks later. But get what? I get the feeling your talking about trading him just for the sake of trading him. I mean, what are other teams willing to give up for him? The only thing I heard was Travis Outlaw, if thats the best we could get, I rather just keep Devin.
Bring in a big PG who can guard the 2s in the league and build a tandem like GS has with Davis and Ellis. Then get some good 3-point shooters like Mike Miller, Korver etc. Let Sean Williams develop an offensive game and let him start with Boone. Trade Krstic and Carter and bring in guys who can run and jump.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dark Defender @ Mar 6 2008, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dark Defender @ Mar 6 2008, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whoa, just because you can't build around him doesn't mean you can't hold onto him. The Nets had RJ/Martin/Kittles all in place before they got Kidd. I'm not saying lighting will strike twice but I like Devin and hes a good piece to have around when you do actually get that guy you can build a franchise around.</div> How was RJ in place before Kidd? Isn't the decision to hold onto Devin a pure value proposition? He is no longer has a poison pill contract and he won't be a base year comp contract this summer. It will be much easier to get value for him than it would have been for Dallas. </div> RJ was traded on draft night, Kidd was officially acquired a few weeks later. But get what? I get the feeling your talking about trading him just for the sake of trading him. I mean, what are other teams willing to give up for him? The only thing I heard was Travis Outlaw, if thats the best we could get, I rather just keep Devin. </div> The Kidd deal was agreed to on draft day As far as trading him, that is where Thron comes in. The one thing he does well is rip off other teams in trades. I don't see Devin going in a trade by himself, rather I see him being paired with one of the big contract wings to allow for a much higher return then they could get alone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aurelino @ Mar 6 2008, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bring in a big PG who can guard the 2s in the league and build a tandem like GS has with Davis and Ellis. Then get some good 3-point shooters like Mike Miller, Korver etc. Let Sean Williams develop an offensive game and let him start with Boone. Trade Krstic and Carter and bring in guys who can run and jump.</div> So are you talking about a lineup like PG: Player X - at least 6'5" SG: Devin SF: Player Y - a shooter like Mike Miller or Korver PF: Sean C: Boone or is RJ still on this team and the shooter is coming in off the bench? Do you believe Devin could consistently average 18 to 20 PPG in such a role?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrandKenyon6 @ Mar 6 2008, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Devin Harris isn't someone you build a team around. He's more of a piece to the puzzle player than a building block. The Nets will probably try to build around him but will fail unless the ping pong balls are especially kind. Forget LeBron James. There is less than a 3% chance of that happening. Players of that magnitude don't leave their teams via free agency. Ever. He will not get to the market. Chances are you can't name the last true superstar to leave his team via free agency. I hate this cap space argument. Cap space can't buy championships, sorry. Look at where cap space has gotten Charlotte and Atlanta. Orlando is now locked into mediocrity for the foreseeable future because of their ludicrous commitment to Rashard Lewis. Did the Spurs, Lakers, Mavs, Pistons, or Celtics build their teams through cap space? No. Teams are built through the draft and through trade. Cap space is useful for signing the 2nd tier players and the complementary players needed to take the next step, not for starting from scratch. Even if NJ had all the money in the world to spend, there is no guarantee that the player(s) they target would want to sign with them anyway. And really, who in their right mind would want to play for a pathetic franchise with no fans that's treading water until the move to Brooklyn anyway? Now, I'm not advocating piling up massive contracts and becoming the Knicks. Cap space is certainly good to have. I'm just saying that trying to build a team by getting as far under the cap as possible is a recipe for failure. The Nets may go that route to try and get LeBron James, but I'll bet all my marbles they won't get him. At the end of the day all that strategy will leave the Nets with is a bunch of unspent money, not the King. And that money will probably be spent later on overpaying 2nd tier players who won't put the team any closer to a championship. Anyway, now that I'm done with my rant, the Nets absolutely have to dump Jefferson. RJ is expired. He's past his usefulness. His numbers have gone up, but in reality his play has regressed since the sensational end of the '03-'04 season and beginning of the '04-'05 one. Jefferson is now just a trigger happy, defenseless wing with very limited ball handling skills and the inability to create his own shot or penetrate like he used to. Closing the book on NJ's glory years is the first step towards regaining competitiveness. Since everyone else has had their pipe dream, I think I'll give it a go now. If the Nets can somehow pry Turkoglu from Orlando, he would be the perfect complement to Devin Harris. He's got good size and is an excellent shooter with good ball handling skills and the ability to create his own shot, drive, run the floor, finish, and post up. He can make plays as well and can take some of the pressure off Harris. Obviously he benefits tremendously from the spacing that Dwight Howard's presence provides, but if the Nets were able to obtain him he would instantly improve the team's shooting and force opponents to play honest defense. How about Jefferson and a first round pick for Turkoglu and Tony Battie? Would Orlando do it? I doubt it considering they would be giving up their primary play maker and go to guy in the clutch, but I can dream. Hedo has 2 years left on his contract with a player option for the second year. He's probably going to want to cash in. This trade minimally affects the Magic's salary cap and Jefferson is a nice alternative to losing Turkoglu for nothing. They get a first round pick in the deal as well. </div> So you want to get rid of RJ. Then what do you want to do? A lottery pick is too much to give up for Hedo
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 6 2008, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>BTW, I did reply to your question earlier in the thread. One of the question I have about attempting to go for the playoffs is why with so many players that need to be evaluated would the Nets not want to give everyone significant playing time to see what they can do?</div> I saw your response... it's the same one I would give which is basically there are too many unknowns to answer. Where are the Nets going to pick in the draft? What can they get for some of these bigs who are all decent, but none can shoot a 12 ft jumper or create a shot in the post? What can they get for Jefferson, Carter or Harris? Can they get something in a S&T with Boki? Will Nenad comeback and be his old self next year like Kittles did in 2001? We don't know enough about what's available to build. I know they need a low-post presence and some shooters.
