<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its entirely possible he has gotten lucky with the last 6 or so drafts. But that's not what I think. Its entirely possible he lost his source(s) to Miami. This is probably somewhat true. It remains to be seen if he still has sources within Dallas. And its entirely possible this is what Dallas is planning on doing and will do on draft day. I think its probably pretty close. But its also possible that someone slips (like Jenkins, in which case Mosley stated, that Dallas would go that route). And its also possible a pick gets moved for a veteran WR as Mosley also noted, in which case, any bets are off. But I think if Dallas stays put, you'll see something very close to what Mosley says. And if you do see a deal, it will involve either a veteran WR or a trade down (out of one of our 1st round picks)</div> The less that the Cowboys deviate from Moseley's predictions, the more likely he is a credible source for draft information. All possible outcomes should be kept to a minimum when proving this. </div> Why? I am just trying to throw all the information out there. People who follow the Cowboys know Mosley is reliable when it comes to draft information.... especially as of late. The only thing that could unhinge Mosley is if a deal does get struck for a veteran WR. Its becoming less likely, but if something were to happen, it would occur when Dallas is on the clock (information Mosley can't get ahead of time). Edit: Or someone big falls. He accounted for Mike Jenkins, but I think if Albert was there, Dallas could go with Albert... So, those scenarios right now are staying put (and in his case, he has Jones/Flowers) or a trade down from 28 for a CB (and drafting Flowers, Cason, or Porter depending upon who is available). Obviously, in the 2nd round, there is no way to determine, really, who would be available. But I think its pretty clear that Dallas prefers Flowers, Cason, then Porter in that order.....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its entirely possible he has gotten lucky with the last 6 or so drafts. But that's not what I think. Its entirely possible he lost his source(s) to Miami. This is probably somewhat true. It remains to be seen if he still has sources within Dallas. And its entirely possible this is what Dallas is planning on doing and will do on draft day. I think its probably pretty close. But its also possible that someone slips (like Jenkins, in which case Mosley stated, that Dallas would go that route). And its also possible a pick gets moved for a veteran WR as Mosley also noted, in which case, any bets are off. But I think if Dallas stays put, you'll see something very close to what Mosley says. And if you do see a deal, it will involve either a veteran WR or a trade down (out of one of our 1st round picks)</div> The less that the Cowboys deviate from Moseley's predictions, the more likely he is a credible source for draft information. All possible outcomes should be kept to a minimum when proving this. </div> Why? I am just trying to throw all the information out there. People who follow the Cowboys know Mosley is reliable when it comes to draft information.... especially as of late. The only thing that could unhinge Mosley is if a deal does get struck for a veteran WR. Its becoming less likely, but if something were to happen, it would occur when Dallas is on the clock (information Mosley can't get ahead of time). Edit: Or someone big falls. He accounted for Mike Jenkins, but I think if Albert was there, Dallas could go with Albert... So, those scenarios right now are staying put (and in his case, he has Jones/Flowers) or a trade down from 28 for a CB (and drafting Flowers, Cason, or Porter depending upon who is available). Obviously, in the 2nd round, there is no way to determine, really, who would be available. But I think its pretty clear that Dallas prefers Flowers, Cason, then Porter in that order..... </div> Because that has been the whole point of this exercise. Remember when I said I was going to keep score tomorrow and you offered his first round prediction? Neither of us are interested in holding him to his 2nd round predictions. I think that if the cowboys take Jenkins, then that is fine, because they still addressed CB in round 1, which closely follows what Moseley predicted. They are sitting at about the middle of the round, slightly toward the end. That means they can move just a few positions in any direction and still get exactly what Moseley predicts they will take.
Barber has to play in either Dallas or a team with an open air facility, after seeing his contract demands, his ego wouldnt fit into a dome, good thing that hole is in the roof of Texas Stadium....no ones giving up a 1st round pick for Marion Barber, hes most valuable to Dallas, and the way he runs, he could very well be on the last 500 carries of his career....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its entirely possible he has gotten lucky with the last 6 or so drafts. But that's not what I think. Its entirely possible he lost his source(s) to Miami. This is probably somewhat true. It remains to be seen if he still has sources within Dallas. And its entirely possible this is what Dallas is planning on doing and will do on draft day. I think its probably pretty close. But its also possible that someone slips (like Jenkins, in which case Mosley stated, that Dallas would go that route). And its also possible a pick gets moved for a veteran WR as Mosley also noted, in which case, any bets are off. But I think if Dallas stays put, you'll see something very close to what Mosley says. And if you do see a deal, it will involve either a veteran WR or a trade down (out of one of our 1st round picks)</div> The less that the Cowboys deviate from Moseley's predictions, the more likely he is a credible source for draft information. All possible outcomes should be kept to a minimum when proving this. </div> Why? I am just trying to throw all the information out there. People who follow the Cowboys know Mosley is reliable when it comes to draft information.... especially as of late. The only thing that could unhinge Mosley is if a deal does get struck for a veteran WR. Its becoming less likely, but if something were to happen, it would occur when Dallas is on the clock (information Mosley can't get ahead of time). Edit: Or someone big falls. He accounted for Mike Jenkins, but I think if Albert was there, Dallas could go with Albert... So, those scenarios right now are staying put (and in his case, he has Jones/Flowers) or a trade down from 28 for a CB (and drafting Flowers, Cason, or Porter depending upon who is available). Obviously, in the 2nd round, there is no way to determine, really, who would be available. But I think its pretty clear that Dallas prefers Flowers, Cason, then Porter in that order..... </div> Because that has been the whole point of this exercise. Remember when I said I was going to keep score tomorrow and you offered his first round prediction? Neither of us are interested in holding him to his 2nd round predictions. I think that if the cowboys take Jenkins, then that is fine, because they still addressed CB in round 1, which closely follows what Moseley predicted. They are sitting at about the middle of the round, slightly toward the end. That means they can move just a few positions in any direction and still get exactly what Moseley predicts they will take. </div> Ok. I'll try and clear it up some more (I know I've posted a lot and kind of all over the place)... At 22, Mosley has stated that unless a top CB prospect falls to them (Jenkins and DRC were the ones he mentioned), Dallas will look at RB like Felix Jones or Jonathan Stewart. In the end, he went with Felix Jones. At 28, he said Dallas really likes Brandon Flowers. He also said Dallas would like to trade down from here or use the pick in a trade for a veteran WR.... But if we end up picking here, he said Brandon Flowers. Those are his predictions which are based on two things: some player doesn't slip that Dallas really covets and no trade for a veteran WR happens. Jerry hinted at his pre-draft Press Conference that there was an OL they liked that they thought could step in immediately as a rookie. I think they were referring to Brandon Albert. If Albert were to slip; I think he'd be the pick at 22. Mosley has Albert gone before then, so he doesn't mention him. And I think the general belief in Dallas is that Albert is probably gone at 22....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those are his predictions which are based on two things: some player doesn't slip that Dallas really covets and no trade for a veteran WR happens. Jerry hinted at his pre-draft Press Conference that there was an OL they liked that they thought could step in immediately as a rookie. I think they were referring to Brandon Albert. If Albert were to slip; I think he'd be the pick at 22. Mosley has Albert gone before then, so he doesn't mention him. And I think the general belief in Dallas is that Albert is probably gone at 22....</div> Okay, barring anything totally insane, like a top 5 guy falling all the way down to them, which players do Dallas covet that have a realistic chance at those spots? You mentioned Branden Albert. The short list should include only what <u>Moseley</u> thinks they will take if they drop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Apr 25 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Barber has to play in either Dallas or a team with an open air facility, after seeing his contract demands, his ego wouldnt fit into a dome, good thing that hole is in the roof of Texas Stadium....no ones giving up a 1st round pick for Marion Barber, hes most valuable to Dallas, and the way he runs, he could very well be on the last 500 carries of his career....</div> Its a negotiation. Of course they are going to shoot high... I'd have been surprised if they shot an offer asking for around 30M-40M, which is probably close to what he's worth..... As for the way he runs; sure, he has a punishing style. But that can be curtailed, too. In that link I posted, there is a scout who talks about this, saying that he'd rather have a RB who runs too hard, because its easy enough to coach them on how to absorb less contact than it is to get a player to run harder. Essentially, it isn't too much of a problem. Maybe Barber does this; maybe he doesn't. I personally doubt he does.... but its possible he changes the way he runs when he becomes a starter. Dunno. But the "he could be on the last 500 carries of his career" applies to RBs in general; not just Barber. You can't really tell when a RB is going to bite the dust, so to speak. I'd have never thought Emmitt would take the pounding he did for so many years, yet he was able to. I don't think Barber will be like that (because realistically, very few backs can), but I don't think you can accurately tell how many carries he or any RB has left in him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vintage @ Apr 25 2008, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Those are his predictions which are based on two things: some player doesn't slip that Dallas really covets and no trade for a veteran WR happens. Jerry hinted at his pre-draft Press Conference that there was an OL they liked that they thought could step in immediately as a rookie. I think they were referring to Brandon Albert. If Albert were to slip; I think he'd be the pick at 22. Mosley has Albert gone before then, so he doesn't mention him. And I think the general belief in Dallas is that Albert is probably gone at 22....</div> Okay, barring anything totally insane, like a top 5 guy falling all the way down to them, which players do Dallas covet that have a realistic chance at those spots? You mentioned Branden Albert. The short list. </div> We brought in Keith Rivers for a visit and supposedly liked him (which isn't surprising, Wade prefers LBers who can move). I think Rivers could be one of those guys.... Mendenhall is another. I doubt he makes it to 22, but if he did, I think Dallas would take him over Felix. It would surprise me greatly if we drafted a WR in the 1st round..... and it would mean Mosley was waaaay off. Kenny Phillips is another one who has been linked to Dallas possibly....which if it happened, Mosley would be waaaaay off. Edit: I just saw your last edit on this post.... Basically, Mosley is saying that only Jenkins and DRC have any real shot of falling (for various reasons) and would be the pick at 22 instead of a RB like Jones or Stewart. As far as I know, Mosley hasn't said anything about Albert potentially falling and being the Dallas pick. I guess the way to word this is that Mosley isn't really predicting anyone to fall, which may be a mistake on his part. Because it seems like every year, someone does fall. But his thinking is Felix Jones/Brandon Flowers
All of this is exactly why you dont draft RBs in the top 10 and you dont sign the ones you have to huge deals with guaranteed money in my opinion, they are all a bad cut from never being the same, they build up mileage too fast, and they wear down....Barber is so overly physical, that he scares me from that standpoint....however, if he loses that physicality, what would make his special? thats his game and he needs it....If i was in Dallas, id be all for tendering him the high tender that they did, and franchising him if they have too before I would over pay, because although the franchise number is high, its a one year commitment and its future guaranteed cap hit thats scary, not the one year hit....In my opinion, plan to change backs as often as you vote for the president, a new feature back every 4 years....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Apr 25 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All of this is exactly why you dont draft RBs in the top 10 and you dont sign the ones you have to huge deals with guaranteed money in my opinion, they are all a bad cut from never being the same, they build up mileage too fast, and they wear down....Barber is so overly physical, that he scares me from that standpoint....however, if he loses that physicality, what would make his special? thats his game and he needs it....If i was in Dallas, id be all for tendering him the high tender that they did, and franchising him if they have too before I would over pay, because although the franchise number is high, its a one year commitment and its future guaranteed cap hit thats scary, not the one year hit....In my opinion, plan to change backs as often as you vote for the president, a new feature back every 4 years....</div> I think that's why Dallas will look at RB early in the draft. To not overburden Barber's workload. Barber doesn't have to be a 300 carry a season RB to get paid 30-40 M total (with guaranteed money in the 15-18 range). Rather, he just needs to keep producing while hes out there. He's had 28 TDs the past 2 years with a very good ypc. That's worth paying, even if he is a 250 carry back.... And as punishing of a runner as he is; its not like he's been overworked in college or the pros. I think he'll continue to be fine for another 5 years or so..... If we give him a 6 year contract, he really only needs to live up to it for 4 years....then its feasible to cut him/move him/whatever. I think he's got another 4 years ahead of him, so it wouldn't worry me....
Raider, I have some new Mosley comments for you: (Props to Chocolate Lab from CBZ) <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Says he's getting the vibe from people he talks to with the team that if Stewart and Felix are both there at #22, they would take Stewart. He's in New York for the draft and says he didn't get that feeling before he left a couple of days ago. Says they compare him to Steven Jackson -- only Stewart's faster. I know this isn't much -- doesn't everyone think Stewart is better? But Mosley thought it was a change in sentiment from the Cowboys point of view. Also says that if we thought we could move back from 22 to the 24-26 range and get Felix, we could do it. Overall, we'd take Jenkins at 22 if he were there. The guy Mosley trusts most at VR says they haven't completely ruled out Jerry moving up to #8 or so for McFadden, but still doubt it happens. Mosley hears that Jordy Nelson is moving up and the Skins love him. They went to work him out with Zorn and Campbell and everyone a couple days ago. (BTW, Galloway says he heard a while ago that almost all the "first round" WRs were being downgraded by scouts because of weed rumors.)</div> FWIW, and I will go on record about this, I'd prefer Felix Jones over Stewart....
There've been rumours about the Giants trading Shockey all offseason, but they've become more intense recently. Some people are saying that they're on the verge of finalizing a trade with the Saints for their 2nd rounder and two 6th rounders. I'm not all that happy with this potential trade. Despite thinking that all this talk of Shockey being a cancer is mostly media hype, I've been resigned to the fact that the Giants would trade him eventually. He's only getting older, he hasn't found a great fit in this offense since Fassell left, and he's got a big contract. But, at the same time, I think his value is at an all-time low right now and you could get a lot more in a year when he inevitably bounces back from an injury-plagued '07. On top of that, I don't think we've seen enough of Kevin Boss to safely designate him the heir apparent at the TE spot. I'd be a lot more confident if we used two-TE sets this year (which would be a dangerous weapon), and get a better handle of how good Boss can be.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Apr 25 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There've been rumours about the Giants trading Shockey all offseason, but they've become more intense recently. Some people are saying that they're on the verge of finalizing a trade with the Saints for their 2nd rounder and two 6th rounders. I'm not all that happy with this potential trade. Despite thinking that all this talk of Shockey being a cancer is mostly media hype, I've been resigned to the fact that the Giants would trade him eventually. He's only getting older, he hasn't found a great fit in this offense since Fassell left, and he's got a big contract. But, at the same time, I think his value is at an all-time low right now and you could get a lot more in a year when he inevitably bounces back from an injury-plagued '07. On top of that, I don't think we've seen enough of Kevin Boss to safely designate him the heir apparent at the TE spot. I'd be a lot more confident if we used two-TE sets this year (which would be a dangerous weapon), and get a better handle of how good Boss can be.</div> I understand what you're saying. I don't think the Giants keep Shockey though, given all the reasons that you mentioned. Also, do they really need double TE? They have the largest RB in the league, he could just line up next to the tackle or come to that spot while in motion and *be* a TE essentially. When weighing the two options, I think they benefit more from moving him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Apr 25 2008, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Apr 25 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There've been rumours about the Giants trading Shockey all offseason, but they've become more intense recently. Some people are saying that they're on the verge of finalizing a trade with the Saints for their 2nd rounder and two 6th rounders. I'm not all that happy with this potential trade. Despite thinking that all this talk of Shockey being a cancer is mostly media hype, I've been resigned to the fact that the Giants would trade him eventually. He's only getting older, he hasn't found a great fit in this offense since Fassell left, and he's got a big contract. But, at the same time, I think his value is at an all-time low right now and you could get a lot more in a year when he inevitably bounces back from an injury-plagued '07. On top of that, I don't think we've seen enough of Kevin Boss to safely designate him the heir apparent at the TE spot. I'd be a lot more confident if we used two-TE sets this year (which would be a dangerous weapon), and get a better handle of how good Boss can be.</div> I understand what you're saying. I don't think the Giants keep Shockey though, given all the reasons that you mentioned. Also, do they really need double TE? They have the largest RB in the league, he could just line up next to the tackle or come to that spot while in motion and *be* a TE essentially. When weighing the two options, I think they benefit more from moving him. </div> I'm not really against the idea of trading Shockey, just the timing of it. If you go with the "buy low, sell high" mantra, we're selling Shockey at arguably his lowest point (coming off an inconsistent and injury-plagued season, as well as offseason surgery). Why not wait a year and trade him when there are less issues that teams can use to lowball you with? And, while I'm high on Kevin Boss, I don't think he's played long enough to anoint him as the successor already. We only played him half the season and really controlled his playing time. Why not wait a year to get a better handle of how ready he is to become our starter? At the same time, he can learn from a Pro-Bowl TE (specifically, he needs more work on his blocking) and the team gets the luxury of having a plethora of offensive weapons for this upcoming season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Apr 25 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not really against the idea of trading Shockey, just the timing of it. If you go with the "buy low, sell high" mantra, we're selling Shockey at arguably his lowest point (coming off an inconsistent and injury-plagued season, as well as offseason surgery). Why not wait a year and trade him when there are less issues that teams can use to lowball you with?</div> I guess it comes down to, does his cap hit outweigh the alternative. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And, while I'm high on Kevin Boss, I don't think he's played long enough to anoint him as the successor already. We only played him half the season and really controlled his playing time. Why not wait a year to get a better handle of how ready he is to become our starter? At the same time, he can learn from a Pro-Bowl TE (specifically, he needs more work on his blocking) and the team gets the luxury of having a plethora of offensive weapons for this upcoming season.</div> Perhaps Kevin Boss is a one-hit wonder - Like Larry Brown's 2 interceptions thrown right to him in that one Superbowl. Perhaps we judged him too quickly.
I concur with Chutney on the Shockey issue. There TE situation is not that stable without him in my opinion, plus he gets superfluous blame for being a disturbance.
Ok got a question here. I haven't followed the draft and what has happened but my question is, do the Patriots have a pick and what round(s) is it? Thanks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Apr 26 2008, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok got a question here. I haven't followed the draft and what has happened but my question is, do the Patriots have a pick and what round(s) is it? Thanks.</div> The Patriots lost their first round pick (31st overall) because of the Spygate scandal. However, they made a trade last year with the 49ers, which gives them their first rounder this year (7th overall).
A Rumor going around is that Rams have decided to select Chris Long with the 2nd pick. Now its going to be interesting where Atlanta goes. They brought in a head coach who favors explosive d-lineman like Dorsey or do you go with the Franchise QB Matt Ryan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Apr 26 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ESPN's reporting that the Rams will select Chris Long, barring a trade. Sorry, Raider.</div> I'm taking it well. Someday he will be a free agent.
