Warriors offseason: Pietrus, Barnes,Azubuike

Whats the word on these guys?

With Ellis and Biendris needing extensions, do you think these guys can come back?

 

I only see hope for Azubuike to come back because of his defense and rebounding. I think Bellinelli will get a shot next year as our #1 backup guard.

 

Yeah, a lot can, and probably will happen during this offseason including those 3 players. In theory, we can only have Harrington, Jackson, Wright, Marco, and Perovic under the contract during this offseason.

For Pietrus, I don't see him coming back. The relationship between him and Warriors got pretty bad, and I don't see us throwing tons of money at him, when he showed minimal improvement over 5 years.

Barnes... No doubt he played horribly in this season. Warriors may give him a benefit of doubt, because he played so well last season and had tough time with his mother passing away. But, I don't see him getting more than minimum.

Azubuike will most likely opt out, but I don't think he will get more than 2.5 mil per year. At times, he looked great, but many times, he was non-factor, and at the end, he has bit better stats than Barnes. He probably is the top choice from those three players for Warriors though...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwan1031 @ Mar 27 2008, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, a lot can, and probably will happen during this offseason including those 3 players. In theory, we can only have Harrington, Jackson, Wright, Marco, and Perovic under the contract during this offseason.</div>

Wow that is incredible. Next season's starting five: Marco/Jackson/Harrington/Wright/POB. J/K. This offseason is going to be nuts. Baron Davis is probably going to ask for a lot of money. He's having a good year. Perhaps it is good that he didn't get voted into the all-star game, maybe that would had made him get a bigger contract, though probably not. He's good. The main focus will be on Monta/Baron/Andris. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Matt Barnes pulls a Mickael Pietrus from last offseason and comes back after finding no takers. I wonder how this offseason as well will be different for Pietrus than last offseason. Azubuike is probably gone. Pietrus I actually think will go to a championship contender, perhaps like the Suns for a cheaper contract.

 

How do we get rid of Al Harrington?

 

I'm not sure, but I think Al Harrington should be easy to move if the right deal comes along. He's very skilled, he doesn't give up on inside plays. For teams that want versatility at the forward position, I bet he can be dealt for a draft pick combination or some expiring contract. He's a nice addition for teams that have inside scoring/weakside D covered.

I'd want draft picks, though, obviously.

 

I think Harrington will have more trade value after next season when he becomes an expiring contract. I'd be interested at least to see what Harrington's value would be though.

With tonight's loss it looks like the offseason has just begun. The last game vs. The Sonics will be very interesting. Maybe we will see a lot of Marco and Wright and even POB, and Perovic.

 

Here's how I want next year's lineup to be if we don't have the money to keep Baron Davis while trying to improve the lineup (that's why I hate max players, at least Tim Duncan asked for less to try and win):

PG: Monta Ellis (I think he's ready to man the point)
SG: Marco Belinelli (unless we find a good FA or make a trade, he's our guy)
SF: Stephen Jackson (great player, no complaints)
PF: Brandan Wright (this guy's a mystery but his upside his fantastic)
C: Andris Biedrins (Double double machine)

Bench:

C: POB (if that's even possible), Kosta Perovic
SF/PF: Al Harrington (depending if we can turn him into a better fit or a draft pick)
SG/SF: ?
SG: ?
PG/SG: ?

Here's some free agents that I want to pursue, especially if we take care of business with Ellis and Biedrins and it also depends what happens to Baron and Harrington (guys I think kill momentum a lot of times) Who knows maybe more playing time can be the difference between Mehmet Okur (Pistons era) vs. Mehmet Okur (Jazz era). Cliff Robinson was right about that guy being the real deal... forget him being the next Troy Murphy:


Jose Calderon RFA (PG) (great playmaker, very quick, pretty well rounded and is very unselfish, might interfere with Ellis' development as a point guard but clearly makes everyone around him better)
Ricky Davis SG/SF (yeah, yeah I know his attitude, but he can be a do everything player even on D, might make an interesting duo with Sjax)
Beno Udrih (PG,SG) (all-around player, not a defender or distance shooter)
Josh Childress RFA SG/SF (a very tall, athletic natural shooting guard. good rebounder, all around player, unselfish)
Dorrell Wright RFA (SG/SF) (high potential, still pretty raw)
Carlos Arroyo (PG) (a nice playmaker with some noticeable flaws)
Nenad Krstic RFA (PF/C) (a very long jump shooting 7 feet tall, could provide some excellent mismatches against centers or power forwards in a way which currently no warrior does)
Walter Hermann (RFA) SF/PF (a good utility player on offense)
Chris Duhon (PG) (pure point with average abilities, might make a nice experienced backup)
Daniel Gibson (RFA) SG (PG) (great distance shooter)
Dwayne Jones (RFA) PF/C (rebounding and shotblocking potential with size)
Anthony Carter PG (average point known more for defense, shaky shooting ability)
Ryan Gomes RFA (SF/PF) (inside outside player, fundamentally sound)
Bostjan Nachbar (SF) (nice shooter)
Francisco Elson ? (an athletic, very serviceable center)
Roger Mason (SG) (an all-around guard, quick or big enough?)

I'd like to keep a few of these guys also:
Matt Barnes
Kelenna Azubuike
CJ Watson
Austin Croshere
Patrick O'Bryant

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Apr 15 2008, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Here's how I want next year's lineup to be if we don't have the money to keep Baron Davis while trying to improve the lineup (that's why I hate max players, at least Tim Duncan asked for less to try and win):

PG: Monta Ellis (I think he's ready to man the point)
SG: Marco Belinelli (unless we find a good FA or make a trade, he's our guy)
SF: Stephen Jackson (great player, no complaints)
PF: Brandan Wright (this guy's a mystery but his upside his fantastic)
C: Andris Biedrins (Double double machine)

Bench:

C: POB (if that's even possible), Kosta Perovic
SF/PF: Al Harrington (depending if we can turn him into a better fit or a draft pick)
SG/SF: ?
SG: ?
PG/SG: ?</div>

Rebuilding already? That team doesn't sniff the playoffs for 3-5 years. I'd rather dump young talent at a shot at a guy like Kirilenko or an aging Sheed. The best thing that could happen is Detroit to flop in the 1st round.

 

I'd be surprised to see Barnes, Croshere, and O'Bryant back, especially POB...the guy hates Nellie.

How sure are we that Baron is going to opt-out of his contract and demand a new contract? It seems to be that most players who have done that end up on their ass with less money...ehem, Latrell Sprewell.

I think the smart move for him would be to not opt out. I'd like Baron for at least one more season. CR, I have to disagree, Monta is not ready to man the PG position. His handles, especially in the half court, make me nervous. I could be wrong though (hopefully he has a good off-season). I know you hate BD as a point guard, but he still possesses more PG instincts than Monta does. As mentioned in another thread, if Nellie (or someone) can "reign" BD in and make him more of a pure PG, then I think it would compliment Monta's development nicely.

I don't think Marco is ready to start at SG for a full season. I think he's going to be our sixth man though and work his way into the starting lineup as the season goes on. A backcourt of BD, Monta, and Marco seems about right, with maybe a CJ Watson or Kalenna as insurance.

CJ and Kalenna are quality players, who are fundamentally sound...it would be a shame to lose both to free agency.

You're right about Brandon Wright, he's a big mystery. We all know he has potential, but is he going to fill the void we oh-so lacked this season? It seems we need insurance at the PF position to nurture Wright's development. An Elton Brand would be ideal, but at what cost...we'd need to unload Baron (which is really a whole separate topic)...unless Baron opts out, Brand opts out, and we pick up Brand

Damn, I'm sounding more and more like CR. I love Baron! Don't get rid of him!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CohanHater @ Apr 15 2008, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Apr 15 2008, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Here's how I want next year's lineup to be if we don't have the money to keep Baron Davis while trying to improve the lineup (that's why I hate max players, at least Tim Duncan asked for less to try and win):

PG: Monta Ellis (I think he's ready to man the point)
SG: Marco Belinelli (unless we find a good FA or make a trade, he's our guy)
SF: Stephen Jackson (great player, no complaints)
PF: Brandan Wright (this guy's a mystery but his upside his fantastic)
C: Andris Biedrins (Double double machine)

Bench:

C: POB (if that's even possible), Kosta Perovic
SF/PF: Al Harrington (depending if we can turn him into a better fit or a draft pick)
SG/SF: ?
SG: ?
PG/SG: ?</div>

Rebuilding already? That team doesn't sniff the playoffs for 3-5 years. I'd rather dump young talent at a shot at a guy like Kirilenko or an aging Sheed. The best thing that could happen is Detroit to flop in the 1st round.
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I don't want to dump young talent for overpaid talent. Right now Ak47 and Baron Davis are all overpaid and injury prone and aren't real superstars to be making that much money. What about the team? One player can make a difference, but if that player gets hurt again or isn't a factor, he becomes deadweight. So there won't be any runs if guys are making too much money, we have little room to get better, and we still have positions of need to fill. I wouldn't mind getting Sheed, though, so long as he doesn't become a head case again. And Baron managed to play healthy all season, I just don't believe he can stay healthy again as he gets older, especially if gets out of shape again. I get feelings of Antoine Walker from him, another low % player that can make others better (if they decide to pass first).

Plus, missing the playoffs for that long, you don't know that, though. We thought the Hornets were rebuilding and they made some good trades. Now look at them. I can only come up with FA's, Mullin and company have to start finding out who is trading who and start getting guys already under contract so we don't have to worry about details of long term signings.

If we find out one of our draft picks becomes the next David West, and we acquire an impact shooting guard with bench depth, we end up being better by subtraction because of additional salary room and better shot distribution. It's really all a crapshoot when I look at it, so I can't say I'm right. I could be as right as McNamara's Whiz Kids were if I were just looking at numbers, but I'm not even looking at that. I just feel and think this team is going to end up being a better team if Baron Davis, the supposed leader is not here going unchecked and possibly end up being as injured as Steve Francis in his current state making max dollars.

If Baron were making less, he wouldn't be an issue, but he wants more and I don't think he deserves it. I think his mind isn't focussed on basketball and at one point he was even contemplating retiring early when that stuff broke out in New Orleans. I'm agreeing with New Orleans fans that he wows you with his ability, but he lacks the heart and desire that Jrich had. I think that's exactly what is also missing from this team. Somebody who gives enough damn to put aside himself for the good of the team. I think the shot selection and lack of discipline is a tell tale sign that Baron doesn't care at times. I just think it was bad how Jrich got rewarded because he was the real heart of the team. He got traded to avoid the luxury tax and to keep enough money to re-sign Biedrins and Ellis and it wouldn't come down to that if Baron and Harrington weren't making so much money (other teams just went crazy with their money on those guys). I swear that we will lose due to the insane amount some of these guys on our team are making. If they aren't true superstars they shouldn't making close to that. It's why we got hurt when Jamison got paid the max. The guys who should get the max are guys that make others better. Lately, I don't see that, not unless we have Jrich back and he's taking away more shots from Baron. That won't be cheap with how much Baron demands.

Plus, this whole Baron Davis above "the law" sends the message to the rest of the players that you don't have to play team ball or show any discipline. I know Don Nelson sent a message yesterday, but I want a team that's a little more self disciplined. We're talking about a point guard that historically has been out of shape from offseason to offseason and has discipline and ego problems. I think it's a recurring cancer in its early stages, but I'm not sure. I know that I don't feel right about Baron Davis any longer and it's not because we're missing the playoffs. It's just what I've seen on the Warriors and based on his past... The over dribbling, bad shot selection, out of position on defense coming from your point guard goes against any kind of winning ball against winning teams.

I'm sure Mullin will make the right decisions now that he's had some seasoning. I don't trust myself to do what he does, but at the same time I think I know what we need less and more of on the court in order to win (we need better execution, more talent for the available money we have, better ball movement, better D), and players that really listen to their coach and don't need to be disciplined. Mullin's problem will be finding guys that mesh together in the locker room. Who knows how the rest of the guys would react to either of Baron leaving or Harrington getting traded.

I'm also using Jim Barnett as a barometer because I notice things he notices about guys like Baron, Pietrus, and Harrington. Pietrus and Harrington often make the same mistakes or do some things that show they lack natural decision-making or basketball fundamentals. Baron Davis on the other hand shows he lacks the self discipline and leadership to play by example and run the team as Don Nelson would if he were orchestrating the offense. He's not a coach's point guard IMO. Baron's just not running things right IMO. He's becoming Derek Fisher...

 

CR, I think Baron has proven he's not injury prone by playing every game this season. I think that argument is debunked until he gets injured again.

 

BTW, here's the 2008 FA list: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2008FreeAgents

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Apr 15 2008, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>CR, I think Baron has proven he's not injury prone by playing every game this season. I think that argument is debunked until he gets injured again.</div>

Oh I assure you, it doesn't get any better when you get older. The phenomenon this year was an observation that we know was distant from anything we've seen in the past, an outlier, so to speak (or a contract year). I guess until he gets injured again that argument is debunked, but if we're gambling (and I don't like to gamble because I'm superstitious that whatever I do I'll lose), I think he's bound to get hurt for a good stretch of games. It's like... If Yao plays 82 games for one season, it doesn't change my mind about his potential for foot and ankle problems, but the difference is who replaces Yao's presence? Baron's seems to have some sort of injury issue every year except for this one and he is the most replaceable to me if we're looking at scorers. We got Monta Ellis, and more unselfish players out there who could help us. To me, it's about who has the best chance of making the other 4 players better and can find offense within the flow. If we divert money to filling some impact free agents in our inside positions, I'd be happier. If also kept enough to lock up a 20/10 big man, I'd rather much have that then put it into two guard positions, one of which Ellis can totally take over with higher %'s all-around with decent and improving playmake ability. The only question is protecting the ball and floor leadership... I'm hoping we get some of that through Jackson and our shooting guard. Too bad there's no Brandon Roy or Kirk Hinrich. This is a gamble if we take away the guy that holds the team together in the locker room and on the floor. The guy is a captain and major player in Nelson's offense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Apr 15 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't want to dump young talent for overpaid talent. Right now Ak47 and Baron Davis are all overpaid and injury prone and aren't real superstars to be making that much money. What about the team? One player can make a difference, but if that player gets hurt again or isn't a factor, he becomes dead weight.</div>


That's true, but guys like Sheed's contracts are almost up. A high priced contract at the tail end is a good thing to have. If the team is going to start building from scratch, then they should throw some of the young talent away, trade for guys with 1 or 2 years left and make a run. Then you can move expiring contracts the following year.

Breaking this team up now isn't the right thing to do, it'd be 1 or 2 years premature.

 

I'd like to add another PG with or without Baron Davis. I like the idea of any player/point guard like Jason Williams, Stephon Marbury, jose Calderon, Earl Boykins (to at least be energy off the bench, or is he too old now?), Damon Stoudamire (mmm, maybe not), Chris Duhon. Monta Ellis is not ready to be the PG. I don't care if any of these players mess with Monta's development to be a full time PG. I am more concerned with getting a winning team together, at least that is my focus if I were a Warriors GM or assistant GM (intern? haha).

Of course first the team should pursue bringing back Andris and Monta and Baron unless if he's asking for ridiculous money and years.

But what would the possibilities of making a trade for Shawn Marion be? I guess he is a ETO free agent like Baron Davis. I wonder if he really wants to get out of there and if Miami would let him go for cheap, perhaps something like a first round pick and I guess I am not so sure what would work there with this lineup. But that would be pretty cool, yeah?

 

What position would Shawn Marion play?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Apr 17 2008, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What position would Shawn Marion play?</div>

Power forward. Marion is better than Harrington. But perhaps you are thinking that Wright is the better fit than Marion? That may be legit, but I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem with Wright coming off the bench. But also it depends on what it would take to get Marion. Perhaps it is not worth it. I was just thinking that he's probably none too happy about being in Miami right now, and could ask to end his contract now, which I think he has the option of doing. So a counter could just be a trade, perhaps like the Gasol to LA deal - and all star for a bag of peanuts. I just don't know if we have those big expiring contracts that Miami may want. And which young guys do we trade? It was just an idea to shoot out there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clif25 @ Apr 17 2008, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Apr 17 2008, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What position would Shawn Marion play?</div>
</div>

Whatever position he wants. He'd instantly be the best all around player on the court.