<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 3 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I look at it quite differently. The Nets have already attempted a rebuild based upon 3 mismatched perimeter players in a conference that had Shaq and the Pistons. Now the Nets need to rebuild again and the conference has changed once again. The Pistons are still the Pistons and Shaq is gone, but LeBron has become a force and the Celtics have a mini all star team. Add in an emerging Dwight Howard and a Toronto team that already passed the Nets because of their team play. The Nets pieces don't fit well enough to become a Pistons and the talent isn't sufficient to match up with the others deep in the playoffs. That is why I'm fixated on building around lottery picks in 2008 and 2009.</div> While I appreciate your opinion, I have to say I disagree somewhat. It seems to me that you're looking at the the conference (and the Nets' chances) statically instead of dynamically. Everything is fluid. SImply because these teams are better today doesn't necessarily mandate that they'll be better tomorrow. Players get injured; players get old. Players leave as free agents; teams make poor management decisions. The Pistons and Celtics are old; it remains to be seen whether Orlando and Cleveland can build a legitimate contender around their respective stars; and there's no reason why the Nets can't replicate (or surpass) Toronto's success merely by improving the bench. By focusing entirely on the lottery, you are condemning the team to a long-term plan, where they would be unable to step into a void if a few of those teams falter. Also, there is no guarantee that they'll be able to parlay a couple of mid-lottery picks into a winning formula; a lot has to go right, and there have been many instances where teams have had numerous lottery picks in consectuive years and have been unable to improve. It seems like more often than not, a team can improve quicker and more by simply trading the lottery pick away for an established player. If the Nets do end up with the #9 or #10 pick, who is to say that they couldn't exchange it for a Mike Miller-type? I understand that, as a fan, you want the Nets to fail and get a good player in the draft . . . but as an organization, they can't do that . . . they still have to sell tickets, to get fans to watch the telecasts and buy merchandise . . . and the players themselves are going to try as hard as they can, because they want to stay in the league as long as they can. I think that, at worst, they'll be where they are now, with around the tenth to twelvth worst record, and that just isn't low enough to ensure a high-quality player who could make an immediate impact.
First and foremost hello to everyone. My PC died and I have had no cash to fix.... So Im sorry my substandard aussie joke have been missing. BTW, internet cafes are shizen... Good Charlotte? AAaaaaaggggh Anyhow next season. First and foremost, Frank must be let go. He is not a developmental coach and a rebuilding process under Frank will involve young talent on the bench and vet min scrubs on the court. Fact. Replacement coach wishlist; John Lucas, JVG, Terry Porter (he was screwed in Milwaukee, but his in game decision making with the squad he had was better than Frank), Bill Cartwright, Scott Skiles (Good rebuilding coach, if kept in mind players tune him out in 2.5 seasons on average) and *gasp* Larry Brown. Forget Elton. He is a workhorse but to be truely influential he must be teamed with a solid centre. Im not talking about stats but about winning games. I think depending on what the clippers would want, it would be worth a run at Kaman. Really. I think with him at pivot, Sean would be a helluva lot more effective. However with Kaman as a BYC player it does make it tricky. However this is the Pivot we need in a Net uniform. Beg Swift to leave. He is a reasonable player that doesnt fit in our system. Pray that Philly or GS take interest in him. Keep Ager and play him heavily during summer league. Cut him unless he starts replicating the form that got him drafted in the first place. Re-sign Diop. Let Curly Walk. Really. Thats only my opinion though. Dont post 1,000 reasons why he must stay. I think his best BBall in a nets jersey in behind him. Draft according to BPA, not position. Remember Antoine Wright. Shudder. Sigh. Hope like hell we make it outta the lottery next year. BTW, Universe, that VC trade makes sense. Nice.
I thought Antoine Wright was supposed to be BPA at the time? Wasn't he projected as a lottery pick? Idk. Glad you're back. We missed you duw! Hopefully, you could tolerate shizen-y internet cafes and bad charlotte so we could see more of you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 4 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought Antoine Wright was supposed to be BPA at the time? Wasn't he projected as a lottery pick? Idk.</div> Yup
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 4 2008, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 4 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought Antoine Wright was supposed to be BPA at the time? Wasn't he projected as a lottery pick? Idk.</div> Yup </div> Wright wasn't the BPA available though. Rod was too afraid of Granger's knee.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 4 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 4 2008, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 4 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought Antoine Wright was supposed to be BPA at the time? Wasn't he projected as a lottery pick? Idk.</div> Yup </div> Wright wasn't the BPA available though. Rod was too afraid of Granger's knee. </div> That's right. But I thought they were still ranked pretty evenly, no? Like Granger 1A and Wright 1B.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (downunderwonder @ Apr 4 2008, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First and foremost hello to everyone. My PC died and I have had no cash to fix.... So Im sorry my substandard aussie joke have been missing. BTW, internet cafes are shizen... Good Charlotte? AAaaaaaggggh Anyhow next season. First and foremost, Frank must be let go. He is not a developmental coach and a rebuilding process under Frank will involve young talent on the bench and vet min scrubs on the court. Fact. Replacement coach wishlist; John Lucas, JVG, Terry Porter (he was screwed in Milwaukee, but his in game decision making with the squad he had was better than Frank), Bill Cartwright, Scott Skiles (Good rebuilding coach, if kept in mind players tune him out in 2.5 seasons on average) and *gasp* Larry Brown. Forget Elton. He is a workhorse but to be truely influential he must be teamed with a solid centre. Im not talking about stats but about winning games. I think depending on what the clippers would want, it would be worth a run at Kaman. Really. I think with him at pivot, Sean would be a helluva lot more effective. However with Kaman as a BYC player it does make it tricky. However this is the Pivot we need in a Net uniform. amen Beg Swift to leave. He is a reasonable player that doesnt fit in our system. Pray that Philly or GS take interest in him. Keep Ager and play him heavily during summer league. Cut him unless he starts replicating the form that got him drafted in the first place. Re-sign Diop. Let Curly Walk. Really. Thats only my opinion though. Dont post 1,000 reasons why he must stay. I think his best BBall in a nets jersey in behind him. Draft according to BPA, not position. Remember Antoine Wright. Shudder. Sigh. Hope like hell we make it outta the lottery next year. BTW, Universe, that VC trade makes sense. Nice.</div>
I'll jump in with something completely different. . . First, what ails the Nets? Thorn and Frank and most people here keep saying we need shooters. But what does that mean? We always seem (lately) to wind up going after guys that can shoot but don't do anything else (House, Boki, Padgett, now Ager. . .). I fail to see how that gets us closer to being *very* good. Maybe as a final piece to the puzzle this is fine, but not at the level of need we are building frmo right now. IMHO, our biggest problem on offense is that our bigs do not have enough scoring power. Except when Krly is on his game (rare lately), we are playing 3-on-5 on offense. Boone and eventually Smokey are good 5th option type players on offense - and maybe Smokey will turn into a 4th option. But I think the #1 goal ought to be changing our current rotation of valuable defensive-minded bigs into a unit with more punch. And we ought to be thinking long-term, not quick-fix. After we address that issue, we can go to work on the bench, the complementary players, etc. Second, I agree with those who have pointed out that now is not the time to trade VC or RJ . There is no market for them You have to wait until they are in the final 1 or 2 years of their contracts. Until then, they are going to be our mainstays. That doesn't mean we build around them for the long run, but I just don't think trading them right now is going to be fruitful. So. . . Let's assume we get the 10th and 20th (and 40th) picks in the draft. What are we going to get at #10? DE and nbadraft suggest the best players left at that point will be another complementary big - maybe Kevin Love or DeAndre Jordan. Alternatively, a 2 might drop, like Mayo or Westbrook. I would look to trade this pick. My suggestion (bracing to duck the rotten vegetables): trade Smokey, Ager and the #10 to Milwaukee for Yi. I think Yi would fit in much better in the NY area and be able to bloom here. I think we've only seen the tip of his potential, which is to be a #2 scorer on a very good team and a good help defender. Would Milwaukee go for it? I don't know. They are replacing the GM who drafted him, though. At #20 I love CDR. DE and nbadraft seem to disagree on his upside, but I see another Kerry Kittles developing. Or maybe a cross between Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. At #40 I have no idea. Those picks rarely amount to anything, though. As for the rest of the roster, I would: re-sign Diop for 3-4 years, sign the QO for Nenad to get another 1-year look at him, and bring in another crusty veteran as a deep back-up at the 1 (or just re-sign Armstrong). Finally, I'd add that shooter. Boki is fine if he gives us a discount . Otherwise, how about Siskauskas from Russia? My 2008-9 roster: Harris - Bandit - Armstrong Carter - CDR RJ - Siskauskas - Hassell Boone - Yi - Swift Krly - Diop
[quote name='Lurk182' post='1591748' date='Apr 5 2008, 08:29 AM']I'll jump in with something completely different. . . First, what ails the Nets? Thorn and Frank and most people here keep saying we need shooters. But what does that mean? We always seem (lately) to wind up going after guys that can shoot but don't do anything else (House, Boki, Padgett, now Ager. . .). I fail to see how that gets us closer to being *very* good. Maybe as a final piece to the puzzle this is fine, but not at the level of need we are building frmo right now. IMHO, our biggest problem on offense is that our bigs do not have enough scoring power. Except when Krly is on his game (rare lately), we are playing 3-on-5 on offense. Boone and eventually Smokey are good 5th option type players on offense - and maybe Smokey will turn into a 4th option. But I think the #1 goal ought to be changing our current rotation of valuable defensive-minded bigs into a unit with more punch. And we ought to be thinking long-term, not quick-fix. After we address that issue, we can go to work on the bench, the complementary players, etc. Second, I agree with those who have pointed out that now is not the time to trade VC or RJ . There is no market for them You have to wait until they are in the final 1 or 2 years of their contracts. Until then, they are going to be our mainstays. That doesn't mean we build around them for the long run, but I just don't think trading them right now is going to be fruitful. So. . . Let's assume we get the 10th and 20th (and 40th) picks in the draft. What are we going to get at #10? DE and nbadraft suggest the best players left at that point will be another complementary big - maybe Kevin Love or DeAndre Jordan. Alternatively, a 2 might drop, like Mayo or Westbrook. I would look to trade this pick. My suggestion (bracing to duck the rotten vegetables): trade Smokey, Ager and the #10 to Milwaukee for Yi. I think Yi would fit in much better in the NY area and be able to bloom here. I think we've only seen the tip of his potential, which is to be a #2 scorer on a very good team and a good help defender. Would Milwaukee go for it? I don't know. They are replacing the GM who drafted him, though. At #20 I love CDR. DE and nbadraft seem to disagree on his upside, but I see another Kerry Kittles developing. Or maybe a cross between Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. At #40 I have no idea. Those picks rarely amount to anything, though. As for the rest of the roster, I would: re-sign Diop for 3-4 years, sign the QO for Nenad to get another 1-year look at him, and bring in another crusty veteran as a deep back-up at the 1 (or just re-sign Armstrong). Finally, I'd add that shooter. Boki is fine if he gives us a discount . Otherwise, how about Siskauskas from Russia? My 2008-9 roster: Harris - Bandit - Armstrong Carter - CDR RJ - Siskauskas - Hassell Boone - Yi - Swift Krly - Diop[/quo First of all... Who the hell is smokey? is that a new nickname? idk... And dude armstrong is retiring after this season... hell probably be a coach or assistan next season. Then who the hell is CDR? siskauskas? ummmm And no way in helll we want YI.. hes like the next boki.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 5 2008, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 5 2008, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll jump in with something completely different. . . So. . . Let's assume we get the 10th and 20th (and 40th) picks in the draft. What are we going to get at #10? DE and nbadraft suggest the best players left at that point will be another complementary big - maybe Kevin Love or DeAndre Jordan. Alternatively, a 2 might drop, like Mayo or Westbrook. I would look to trade this pick. My suggestion (bracing to duck the rotten vegetables): trade Smokey, Ager and the #10 to Milwaukee for Yi. I think Yi would fit in much better in the NY area and be able to bloom here. I think we've only seen the tip of his potential, which is to be a #2 scorer on a very good team and a good help defender. Would Milwaukee go for it? I don't know. They are replacing the GM who drafted him, though. At #20 I love CDR. DE and nbadraft seem to disagree on his upside, but I see another Kerry Kittles developing. Or maybe a cross between Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. At #40 I have no idea. Those picks rarely amount to anything, though. As for the rest of the roster, I would: re-sign Diop for 3-4 years, sign the QO for Nenad to get another 1-year look at him, and bring in another crusty veteran as a deep back-up at the 1 (or just re-sign Armstrong). Finally, I'd add that shooter. Boki is fine if he gives us a discount . Otherwise, how about Siskauskas from Russia? My 2008-9 roster: Harris - Bandit - Armstrong Carter - CDR RJ - Siskauskas - Hassell Boone - Yi - Swift Krly - Diop</div> First of all... Who the hell is smokey? is that a new nickname? idk... And dude armstrong is retiring after this season... hell probably be a coach or assistan next season. Then who the hell is CDR? siskauskas? ummmm And no way in helll we want YI.. hes like the next boki. </div> Smokey is Sean Williams, CDR is Chris Douglas Roberts and Lurk is on crack. Even Isiah Thomas wouldn't make that trade...I mean Jesus Christ who would trade Sean Williams, Ager and the 10th pick for Yi?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Apr 5 2008, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 5 2008, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 5 2008, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll jump in with something completely different. . . So. . . Let's assume we get the 10th and 20th (and 40th) picks in the draft. What are we going to get at #10? DE and nbadraft suggest the best players left at that point will be another complementary big - maybe Kevin Love or DeAndre Jordan. Alternatively, a 2 might drop, like Mayo or Westbrook. I would look to trade this pick. My suggestion (bracing to duck the rotten vegetables): trade Smokey, Ager and the #10 to Milwaukee for Yi. I think Yi would fit in much better in the NY area and be able to bloom here. I think we've only seen the tip of his potential, which is to be a #2 scorer on a very good team and a good help defender. Would Milwaukee go for it? I don't know. They are replacing the GM who drafted him, though. At #20 I love CDR. DE and nbadraft seem to disagree on his upside, but I see another Kerry Kittles developing. Or maybe a cross between Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. At #40 I have no idea. Those picks rarely amount to anything, though. As for the rest of the roster, I would: re-sign Diop for 3-4 years, sign the QO for Nenad to get another 1-year look at him, and bring in another crusty veteran as a deep back-up at the 1 (or just re-sign Armstrong). Finally, I'd add that shooter. Boki is fine if he gives us a discount . Otherwise, how about Siskauskas from Russia? My 2008-9 roster: Harris - Bandit - Armstrong Carter - CDR RJ - Siskauskas - Hassell Boone - Yi - Swift Krly - Diop</div> First of all... Who the hell is smokey? is that a new nickname? idk... And dude armstrong is retiring after this season... hell probably be a coach or assistan next season. Then who the hell is CDR? siskauskas? ummmm And no way in helll we want YI.. hes like the next boki. </div> Smokey is Sean Williams, CDR is Chris Douglas Roberts and Lurk is on crack. Even Isiah Thomas wouldn't make that trade...I mean Jesus Christ who would trade Sean Williams, Ager and the 10th pick for Yi? </div> Oh thanks Joey. And i can answer your question. Some chinese GM that thinks YI is some kinda god would make the trade happen. Good thing we got thorn
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 5 2008, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Apr 5 2008, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 5 2008, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 5 2008, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll jump in with something completely different. . . So. . . Let's assume we get the 10th and 20th (and 40th) picks in the draft. What are we going to get at #10? DE and nbadraft suggest the best players left at that point will be another complementary big - maybe Kevin Love or DeAndre Jordan. Alternatively, a 2 might drop, like Mayo or Westbrook. I would look to trade this pick. My suggestion (bracing to duck the rotten vegetables): trade Smokey, Ager and the #10 to Milwaukee for Yi. I think Yi would fit in much better in the NY area and be able to bloom here. I think we've only seen the tip of his potential, which is to be a #2 scorer on a very good team and a good help defender. Would Milwaukee go for it? I don't know. They are replacing the GM who drafted him, though. At #20 I love CDR. DE and nbadraft seem to disagree on his upside, but I see another Kerry Kittles developing. Or maybe a cross between Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. At #40 I have no idea. Those picks rarely amount to anything, though. As for the rest of the roster, I would: re-sign Diop for 3-4 years, sign the QO for Nenad to get another 1-year look at him, and bring in another crusty veteran as a deep back-up at the 1 (or just re-sign Armstrong). Finally, I'd add that shooter. Boki is fine if he gives us a discount . Otherwise, how about Siskauskas from Russia? My 2008-9 roster: Harris - Bandit - Armstrong Carter - CDR RJ - Siskauskas - Hassell Boone - Yi - Swift Krly - Diop</div> First of all... Who the hell is smokey? is that a new nickname? idk... And dude armstrong is retiring after this season... hell probably be a coach or assistan next season. Then who the hell is CDR? siskauskas? ummmm And no way in helll we want YI.. hes like the next boki. </div> Smokey is Sean Williams, CDR is Chris Douglas Roberts and Lurk is on crack. Even Isiah Thomas wouldn't make that trade...I mean Jesus Christ who would trade Sean Williams, Ager and the 10th pick for Yi? </div> Oh thanks Joey. And i can answer your question. Some chinese GM that thinks YI is some kinda god would make the trade happen. Good thing we got thorn </div> Somebody here coined the term "Smokey and the Bandit" for our two troubled Williamses. I thought that was clever. Not sure why it didn't seem to stick. Yi is not another Boki. More like a poor man's Nowitzki, in time. Boki is a 6-9, 220 lb small forward that Frank plays at the 4 out of necessity (see 3-on-5 comment above). Of course, we get killed on defense when he does that. Yi is, at 20 years of age, 6-11, 240. He is a legitimate PF who can score. He runs and shoots like Boki, but he also has some post moves that he can get off due to his size. Right now he may be a "fallen angel" in that he tailed off as the season wore on and is now shut down 'til the Olympics. I also believe Yi will continue to work hard on his game and get significantly better in the coming years. In my trade, Yi is the best player in the trade (including whoever you take at #10) right now, and he will continue to be the best player in the trade in each coming year. As a bonus, Yormark would be delighted to sell tickets and other stuff to many, many people who identify with Yi's nationality, both in the local area and worldwide. What about Smokey, or SWAT or whatever else you want to call him? Forced to choose, I put him down as my favorite player. Partly because, when I went to the Nets-Wizards game in December I couldn't take my eyes off of him in the shootaround. He has electrifying athleticism, looks the part. But during that shootaround, he also looked like a goof-off. He wasn't serious about getting warmed up, wasn't working on his game. He was gazing up into the crowd looking for girls. He was taking wild-ass shots and not getting ready for anything. That made an impression on me. Of course, we already know he is a big question mark. He played how many games at BC before he was kicked out? He had a good run of games in January for us, but he has not seemed to stay with it. He looks like an angel on the verge of falling. Buy low and sell high, folks. BTW, I do think he has a good amount of upside, as a Kirilenko kind of player who guards SFs and gives a lot of help on defense, then scrapes together garbage points on the other end. But we don't need that kind of player (maybe Milwaukee could use one, though). We need a big who can score. Hard to find.
Wow guys, let's settle down. For the record, I'm not Chinese. Joey I understand what you are saying - in fact I already posted that I think Yi would gain the Nets fans from among its large Chinese and Chinese-American population, as well as being a marketing opportunity overseas. Of course this would be limited if he doesn't turn out to be a good-great player. But you can't take this too far. I offered an explanation for my high rating of Yi, especially for this team. I did not say, guys, I'm from China and I really want to see a Chinese player on the Nets. You offended people by making that jump for me, which is really what stereotyping is all about. But first and foremost, I have a differing opinion about the guy *as a prospect*. He surely has some growing to do into the American game, but my point is, with his talent set I think he will develop those skills. I don't know what his dedication to the game is, but I infer from his taking on the challenge of being over here that he is very dedicated. Honestly, I don't see that from Williams, who should *already* be a fantastic player, but instead we are talking about maybe someday. Folks, these are the reasons Yi went #5 in the draft and Shawn fell to #17. The reason why you'd have to include a draft pick is that nobody would take Sean for Yi. The salary differences are not important here (although that's why I had to throw in Ager, who has little value right now to anyone). BTW, I realize it's quite possible that both of these guys won't pan out. But I also realize that both have seen their stars rise and fall this season. People here seem pretty hyped up about Sean and the several weeks he flashed his potential. But take a look at what David Thorpe has had to say about Yi as the season has progressed. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rook...iod=1&set=1
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 6 2008, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow guys, let's settle down. For the record, I'm not Chinese. Joey I understand what you are saying - in fact I already posted that I think Yi would gain the Nets fans from among its large Chinese and Chinese-American population, as well as being a marketing opportunity overseas. Of course this would be limited if he doesn't turn out to be a good-great player. But you can't take this too far. I offered an explanation for my high rating of Yi, especially for this team. I did not say, guys, I'm from China and I really want to see a Chinese player on the Nets. You offended people by making that jump for me, which is really what stereotyping is all about. But first and foremost, I have a differing opinion about the guy *as a prospect*. He surely has some growing to do into the American game, but my point is, with his talent set I think he will develop those skills. I don't know what his dedication to the game is, but I infer from his taking on the challenge of being over here that he is very dedicated. Honestly, I don't see that from Williams, who should *already* be a fantastic player, but instead we are talking about maybe someday. Folks, these are the reasons Yi went #5 in the draft and Shawn fell to #17. The reason why you'd have to include a draft pick is that nobody would take Sean for Yi. The salary differences are not important here (although that's why I had to throw in Ager, who has little value right now to anyone). BTW, I realize it's quite possible that both of these guys won't pan out. But I also realize that both have seen their stars rise and fall this season. People here seem pretty hyped up about Sean and the several weeks he flashed his potential. But take a look at what David Thorpe has had to say about Yi as the season has progressed. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rook...iod=1&set=1</div> Thank You. To be honest I didn't want to get involved with what Claud was posting because he was being blatantly racist in his assertions, however I thought somebody needed to take the other side of the argument on. Fan bias exists...it's a reality...there is a reason Yao was voted as a starter ahead of Shaq for years fan bias. I think you get what I'm talking about. As for Yi. While if he panned out I could see him being a great addition to any team given his built in fanbase and a huge marketing bonus if he panned out, I just don't think of him as worth the talent it would take to get him. Realistically we could pry Charlie Villanueva away from them for less then what Yi would cost us...to me it just doesnt make sense to pay for overrvalued talent. Sean Williams has real potential...to me we won't see who he truly is as a player til around his third NBA season given his age, the fact that he had such a lengthy time period off due to him being kicked off his college team so early. He's been a model citizen since he's been here and looks to be a potential dominant powerforward. As for Ager...he's expendable but I'd like to give him the rest of the summer, plus summer league to show us what kind of player he truly is...he was drafted in the 1st round for a reason...he has talent. Finally the our pick...there are just so many options here...Batum will be available, Budinger, McGee possibly DeAndre...I'd like to give Thorn and Kiki the chance to use the pick to improve the team... Just think it's way to much for one player. I do like the idea of Chris Douglas Roberts with the Mavs pick...I think he's gonna be very solid pro and think he would thrive playing with Devin.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Apr 6 2008, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 6 2008, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow guys, let's settle down. For the record, I'm not Chinese. Joey I understand what you are saying - in fact I already posted that I think Yi would gain the Nets fans from among its large Chinese and Chinese-American population, as well as being a marketing opportunity overseas. Of course this would be limited if he doesn't turn out to be a good-great player. But you can't take this too far. I offered an explanation for my high rating of Yi, especially for this team. I did not say, guys, I'm from China and I really want to see a Chinese player on the Nets. You offended people by making that jump for me, which is really what stereotyping is all about. But first and foremost, I have a differing opinion about the guy *as a prospect*. He surely has some growing to do into the American game, but my point is, with his talent set I think he will develop those skills. I don't know what his dedication to the game is, but I infer from his taking on the challenge of being over here that he is very dedicated. Honestly, I don't see that from Williams, who should *already* be a fantastic player, but instead we are talking about maybe someday. Folks, these are the reasons Yi went #5 in the draft and Shawn fell to #17. The reason why you'd have to include a draft pick is that nobody would take Sean for Yi. The salary differences are not important here (although that's why I had to throw in Ager, who has little value right now to anyone). BTW, I realize it's quite possible that both of these guys won't pan out. But I also realize that both have seen their stars rise and fall this season. People here seem pretty hyped up about Sean and the several weeks he flashed his potential. But take a look at what David Thorpe has had to say about Yi as the season has progressed. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rook...iod=1&set=1</div> Thank You. To be honest I didn't want to get involved with what Claud was posting because he was being blatantly racist in his assertions, however I thought somebody needed to take the other side of the argument on. Fan bias exists...it's a reality...there is a reason Yao was voted as a starter ahead of Shaq for years fan bias. I think you get what I'm talking about. As for Yi. While if he panned out I could see him being a great addition to any team given his built in fanbase and a huge marketing bonus if he panned out, I just don't think of him as worth the talent it would take to get him. Realistically we could pry Charlie Villanueva away from them for less then what Yi would cost us...to me it just doesnt make sense to pay for overrvalued talent. Sean Williams has real potential...to me we won't see who he truly is as a player til around his third NBA season given his age, the fact that he had such a lengthy time period off due to him being kicked off his college team so early. He's been a model citizen since he's been here and looks to be a potential dominant powerforward. As for Ager...he's expendable but I'd like to give him the rest of the summer, plus summer league to show us what kind of player he truly is...he was drafted in the 1st round for a reason...he has talent. Finally the our pick...there are just so many options here...Batum will be available, Budinger, McGee possibly DeAndre...I'd like to give Thorn and Kiki the chance to use the pick to improve the team... Just think it's way to much for one player. I do like the idea of Chris Douglas Roberts with the Mavs pick...I think he's gonna be very solid pro and think he would thrive playing with Devin. </div> Fair enough. If you think Sean will become a dominant PF, then he has go to be a centerpiece of the plan going forward. The larger theme of my original post was that we need to find a player at the 4 or 5 that will be a #1 or #2 scorer, or even a really good #3 scorer, for the long term. Personally, I don't like the idea of going after Brand because I think he's going to wear down, if he hasn't already. If Sean is the guy, then so be it. I don't see that right now, but let's face it - we haven't actually seen that much of the guy so far. If he can study Bosh-ology and graduate cum laude, then by all means. . . On the larger point, I'll venture that the plan I suggested bears some kinship with cpaw's point of view, and that is that we have to do something drastic to bring in the kind of exceptional player(s) that are needed to move up to the next level. I didn't actually even mean (originally) to marry the whole idea to Yi. Last year I would have made a push (including RJ and taking back a bad contract) for Lamarcus Aldridge. But now that he's blown up, I'd have no hope for that now. I'm sure Thorn and Kiki go through a million and one scenarios all the time, with many of them more wild-eyed than trading for Yi. . .
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lurk182 @ Apr 6 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, since this thread seems doomed to continue into an examination of racial/ethnic/nationalist attitudes rather than GM strategies, I might as well add this. I think Yi may actually be available at a cheaper price than his true value in part due to bias against him. The first thing that happened to him when he came over is everyone waited with bated breath for someone to dunk on him. And opposing players wanted to be that person with their highlight on Youtube. You can now find that highligh on Youtube. The same thing happened to Yao. These guys were expected to be man-handled. I think there was a biased factor to that. I think both Yao and Yi are tough enough to take these attitudes, adjust their games, and be all the more effective because of it. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do think Milwaukee is a terrible place for him, though, both on the court and off. As Joey has pointed out, they already have Villanueva - why do they want another scoring PF who attacks from the outside in?</div> This thread has been doomed from the start because honestly it was started about 2 months to early, the NCAA tourney isn't finished, no camps or workouts have been completed and there are still tons of athletes who could enter the draft to change a given plan. The free agent market is interesting but our activity in it is really dependent on how we draft...if we use both picks on wing players then players such as J.R. Smith and Michael Pietrus wouldn't interest us. Also what's the trade market like? Who will be available? Just to soon to tell.
Yi is a good prospect but I think we have a bigger need for a Sean Williams-type (shot blocking, unreal athleticism) than an outside-in player, with the caveat that if we don't keep Krstic that changes things somewhat. Still, on a team that is one of the youngest in the NBA (excluding Carter and DA), potential becomes as important as present-day skill, and I see more in Sean. Another thing to consider is the influence of the Chinese government. In a couple of articles collected on Hoopshype a while ago (right after Yao went down), there were reports that the Chinese government wanted Yi's minutes to go down since they'd need him more for the Olympics; sure enough, Yi saw less playing time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Apr 7 2008, 06:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yi is a good prospect but I think we have a bigger need for a Sean Williams-type (shot blocking, unreal athleticism) than an outside-in player, with the caveat that if we don't keep Krstic that changes things somewhat. Still, on a team that is one of the youngest in the NBA (excluding Carter and DA), potential becomes as important as present-day skill, and I see more in Sean. Another thing to consider is the influence of the Chinese government. In a couple of articles collected on Hoopshype a while ago (right after Yao went down), there were reports that the Chinese government wanted Yi's minutes to go down since they'd need him more for the Olympics; sure enough, Yi saw less playing time.</div> I do believe that, when Yao first got injured... I was like "Chinese government in affect"... same with Yi. I feel like Yi has space to improve, he knows the game better than Sean and he will be a better offensive player, he also has size advantage. As for sean, he has blocking skills better than Yi and he can run the floor better which suits the team. I just dont want him ending up as a bust. As for size, I think we need someone bigger than both Yi and Sean who can mark bigs, (so that Frank can stop using BOKI!).. Sean seems more suitable for the 3rd spot. He needs to add weight... With that said I'd like to see how he has improved next year.... But I dont believe he will end up like Amare. After one or two years, I see Sean averaging around 10,7 and 2 blocks and Yi 14,8 1 block. Sean would probably look more comfortable on the court but would tune down his game so that it would be more suitable for the NBA pace, meaning he wont be seeking to dunk on someone almost every possesion. As for Yi, he would develop a more all-rounded game, I would like to see him bulk up as well.
