Warriors just lost to the Suns in a well-fought game, but in the end, the better team prevailed. I was hoping for some miracle where the recently arrested Carmelo Anthony would be suspended a game and the Nuggets lose to Memphis, while we triumph over the Suns and Sonics...no such luck Hey, I guess in hindsight this is a good thing to happen to the Warriors. No matter how stacked the West is, the fact remains, the Warriors are a very fun, young, entertaining team but fundamentally flawed in many ways. I think Chris Mullin has a lot of work in the off-season. Hopefully we'll get lucky in the lottery and either use the draft pick + a player (ehem, Al Harrington) to pick up a good talent to help the Warriors get over that 50 win hump and allow them to be a more balanced team, offensively and defensively. I'm anxious to see what type of contract Beans and Monta will warrant. I'm anxious to see how Baron Davis' contract situation pans out as well. Mostly though, I'm most excited about the development of the young guys: Wright, Bellinelli, Monta, and Beans (presuming they're all going to be around next season). I guess I can't be too disappointed with the season even though the expectations were there. Discuss...
well not making the playoffs probably has made re-signing players a little cheaper and easier. Deep playoff success would have probably upped their values.
I don't think The Ws were going anywhere even had they made the playoffs, but even if they got swept, if would have given the young guys some much needed playoff experience and the rookies a taste so they know what to expect the next time. Now when they do make the playoffs and maybe have a chance to advance, it might be another learning experience instead of being able to get down to work and remember what mistakes were made last time, not knowing how the game changes in the playoffs.
This really sucks. I'm not a Warriors fan but I love to watch your team play. I saw every quarter of that Dallas/Golden State series last year.
What a pissy fight between Nellie and Baron to close out the season. Man, I hope this gets resolved with both coming back. Maybe Baron gets the message. He's nothing without Nellie and the Warriors. Really. No one else is going to give him the freedom he gets now. But he's got to play D, at least enough to keep the Warriors in the game.
I'm reading a few blogs here and there and a few people are commenting that Baron was hungover from celebrating his birthday the night before. If you think about it, it makes total sense: 1) Baron went and got hammered 2) Came into the arena all hungover 3) Nellie is disappointed that the team leader let himself become incapacitated for a season-deciding game 4) Starts him anyway because he's your star 5) Baron plays like crap the first half 6) Nellie says, "you shouldn't have gotten drunk, now you're going to sit." The quotes after the game: Nellie: "I gave Baron (Davis) a much-needed rest in the second half" Baron: "Ain't your story." Soooo, it makes sense. Why would you give your star player a "much needed rest" in the 2nd half of the most important game of the season? There's only one reason, because he was too hungover and hurt his team already with that decision. Pretty funny, actually.
I feel like New Orleans fans are getting more right about Baron every day. The guy will only lead you up to a certain point just like small ball. He played so typical yesterday when things weren't going well that I almost certainly want to see him gone if money is the issue (I'd rather build on Beans and Ellis with high figure salaries and lock up a star power forward if we find one). If money ain't a problem, then we certainly need Baron's one-on-one skills and passing (when he feels like it). I will always remember Baron Davis in the playoffs, but how easily this team was neutralized by Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer/Mehmet Okur. We need size and a more unselfish, defensive oriented point that doesn't take so many bad shots in volume. The positives: I saw the game, and it was a well fought game. Perovic, Sjax, Ellis, and Azu had some great moments as a single unit in the 2nd half. I like the fact that Nelson tried to get his guys to look inside first. You can't keep it close when the D and rebounding ain't there, so the next best thing you can do is play well executed offense. Then if you make defensive stops, you can run all day. The Warriors, I felt, did all that. They did their best to turn the ball over and came up with many deflections. They moved a bit more rather than settling for deep 3's. The guy I want taking 3's had the green light (Sjax). I think it what it came down to was the Suns were a better, deeper team and we had no answer for certain positions. We basically became a 6 man team and we couldn't even use Wright that game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (philsmith75 @ Apr 15 2008, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What a pissy fight between Nellie and Baron to close out the season. Man, I hope this gets resolved with both coming back. Maybe Baron gets the message. He's nothing without Nellie and the Warriors. Really. No one else is going to give him the freedom he gets now. But he's got to play D, at least enough to keep the Warriors in the game.</div> The worst part of it, is how many bad shots he took in volume (what was it like 12 shot attempts in 16 minutes of play and he wasn't even hitting close?). At which point will we no longer take the good with the bad. Missed free throws, bad shots in volume without looking to pass first, lack of defensive positioning, self before others... That's a bad leader IMO. Just being loud and vocal isn't being a leader. I almost want to trade him right now... If we have to get a low fg % combo guard in return is there any way we can get Kirk Hinrich for him? I'd much rather have a "point" guard that won't try to lead the league in steals or scoring and claimed in the past to want to achieve something like Steve Nash in assists. You can't do that if you launch without looking. Otherwise, if it's possible, I'd rather trade Baron for more forward and center depth. I can't stand these Stevie Francis or Stephon Marbury types anymore. Give me the Chris Pauls or Jason Kidds that won't dominate the ball and take poor shots when the team is down. Baron Baron Baron Baron... I'm frustrated man. Your role is point guard POINT GUARD!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Apr 15 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Baron Baron Baron Baron... I'm frustrated man. Your role is point guard POINT GUARD!</div> Wow, you are really bringing the FIRE, CR2. After sleeping on it, I'm not quite as bitter as last night, though I'm still convinced this team has too many deep flaws to make a significant playoff threat, and Nellie is probably too set in his crazy ways to make the adjustments. Mullin definitely needs to shoulder some of the blame for his inability to shore up/rebuild the bench. The weak bench almost certainly cost us several games at the end of the year and would have been a disaster in the playoffs. If they make a strong bench pickup or two this offseason, and Nellie starts giving Wright and Belinelli significant minutes, they may still be pretty competitive next year. But it's still likely for only short-term gain that will be far detached from any championship. That worries me because when Nelson leaves in a year this team is going to have to change drastically, and I don't think I want to see Baron Davis with a long-term, high-dollar contract then. I'm not necessarily saying trade Baron or let him walk, but I think you need to at least explore the options there. Hinrich is not really a bad idea. He's unfortunately also a low % shooter, though as you say, also a lower-volume shooter who perhaps knows his limitations more. In fact, in only 2 games this entire year did he take more than 6 shot attempts. Plus, he can shoot the 3 decently and what I love is that he shoots 83% from the freethrow line, and is consistent there, which many of the Warriors are not. He doesn't fit in Nelson's system, but I think I like the idea of him playing with Andris, Monta, and BW in a couple years, after Nelson leaves.
I think the post-Baron era at the PG position highly depends on Monta's development. Is he really going to become a superstar or just an efficient scorer, like J-Rich? Personally, I think he IS going to be a superstar and him and Marco will be studs, but that's just me.
Not a huge deal IMO. Even if we got in, we would have gotten our asses handed to us by the Lakers. Had we made it we would still be tired, worn down, inconsistent, and have no bench. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be in the playoffs, but its not like you couldn't see this coming and at least we're set to have a great offseason. The team is gonna end up with 48 or 49 wins, would you have thought that was a disappointment at the beginning of the season? Its gonna be a very different team next season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Apr 15 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not a huge deal IMO. Even if we got in, we would have gotten our asses handed to us by the Lakers. Had we made it we would still be tired, worn down, inconsistent, and have no bench. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be in the playoffs, but its not like you couldn't see this coming and at least we're set to have a great offseason. The team is gonna end up with 48 or 49 wins, would you have thought that was a disappointment at the beginning of the season? Its gonna be a very different team next season.</div> +1
Kensaku, I was watching some old games and Baron's shot selection really gets to me in those losses. I was feeling what Barnett was saying. Besides the Dunleavy disagreements with Barnett, I really do agree with what he says because I'm thinking it before he says it, especially comments about Harrington's moves, Pietrus' play before the trade deadline. I know basketball players can't be perfect, but the ones who make the most money should be as close as it gets. I mean that's what the value of a player is right: How hard it is to replace a certain player? Well when Baron is playing bad, I see the exact clone of Derek Fisher (dime a dozen minus the experience). I couldn't help but feel fire because I dislike Fisher running the offense. I think he plays outside his realm. And also if Don Nelson does retire and we get a new coach, I'd rather not have the new coach have to deal with Baron's mindset to just go out and do as he pleases. It makes the team bad. I think the team is best left in the hands of guys who are more focussed on basketball and winning and listening and playing together. I think the surprise was that Sjax has had few problems being the captain of the team and he picks his shots in between other players' shots. That's what we had wanted from a guy like Dunleavy despite his defensive lapses. Sjax is out there not looking for his own shot like how Harrington and Baron often do. I think what I'm looking for in a new warriors team is a bigger lineup that can run out if needed, more unselfishness, better defense and more ball movement, with salary flexibility to improve where needed. We cannot move forward if we're pounding the ball and taking ill advised shots in volume and coming from the guy who is supposed to be the quarterback. Charles Barkley jokes about the Warriors, I don't take him seriously, but he's dead on when it comes to the Warriors chances of winning if they're out there beating themselves because they take shots with high chances of failure and they don't pass or move. There's good risk and there's bad risk, and to me Baron is a bad risk player every other game or every two games and that's not superstar caliber that should be making max dollars. No way I re-sign this guy or have him talking about money. This was coming from a guy who was contemplating retirement because of his situation with the Hornets (maybe also due to injuries), but he wasn't happy with playing. Does he like this game, or is his real dream to be involved in the movie entertainment business? I don't know. The team can do fine without him if we just have a bench. That is my belief. When this team sucked, Baron was our best guy, now I think the team is surpassing him entirely when they play together as a single unit. When Baron sat last night, it showed me the Warriors ball was a lot better. They just didn't have a bench to relieve that unit. I know some Baron sympathizers are saying that Nelson overplayed him on minutes all season long, but he should still know how to set the table up. You don't do that by shooting. Okay, I'm going to stop now, people are probably sick of me rambling the same thing over and over.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Apr 15 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not a huge deal IMO. Even if we got in, we would have gotten our asses handed to us by the Lakers. Had we made it we would still be tired, worn down, inconsistent, and have no bench. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be in the playoffs, but its not like you couldn't see this coming and at least we're set to have a great offseason. The team is gonna end up with 48 or 49 wins, would you have thought that was a disappointment at the beginning of the season? Its gonna be a very different team next season.</div> I agree, I still felt it was a very successful season. After Monta struggled early on, he has been superbly consistent. Biedrins shows great signs that he can be a great center/power forward someday. Everyone's getting a feel of what this team can accomplish and what its major weaknesses and strengths are. We definitely need a superstar, but the table looks very set for one. We got a lot of keepers (Monta, Biedrins, Sjax, and possibly Wright). I think it'll be up to Mullin to try and find a mix of offense and defense. I feel it was what sparked the playoff run last season. Inside scoring in the halfcourt was also a weakness. If we don't improve inside scoring, I think what we need to work on his finding guys who can score consistently, score in a variety of ways, and do other things besides score. That's very important to avoid being a one trick pony or a master of no trades. Rebounding will be a big issue, but I think Biedrins and a real power forward can solve those issues in defensive and offensive rebounding. A shooting guard that can also offensive rebound will help too because long shots tend to lead to long misses, and if you don't get back in transition and try to rebound, then you'd better come up with the offensive rebound... All in all I like the rebuilding process right now (Beans and Ellis look super).
CR, I think you have an unhealthy admiration of Sjax. I'm sorry, but if you're going to criticize Baron for taking bad shots, you might as well thrown Sjax in the discussion because he does the same exact thing. Let's take away the FG% and the fact that Sjax isn't our PG. It doesn't matter, Sjax throws up some crap out there when there are obvious better options. Until I see it with positive results, I'm not going to be on the dump Baron bangwagon. You're pointing out a lot of negative attributes from the past about Baron and I think right now it's a little unfair to do that. It's all speculation: he's injured, he's selfish, he's greedy, etc... The guy was the happiest basketball player a year ago and he came into this season with high hopes of winning (it's well-documented). I won't knock the guy's attitude yet, but you're all over him. Hey, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think it's a little too premature at this point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Apr 15 2008, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>CR, I think you have an unhealthy admiration of Sjax. I'm sorry, but if you're going to criticize Baron for taking bad shots, you might as well thrown Sjax in the discussion because he does the same exact thing. Let's take away the FG% and the fact that Sjax isn't our PG. It doesn't matter, Sjax throws up some crap out there when there are obvious better options. Until I see it with positive results, I'm not going to be on the dump Baron bangwagon. You're pointing out a lot of negative attributes from the past about Baron and I think right now it's a little unfair to do that. It's all speculation: he's injured, he's selfish, he's greedy, etc... The guy was the happiest basketball player a year ago and he came into this season with high hopes of winning (it's well-documented). I won't knock the guy's attitude yet, but you're all over him. Hey, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think it's a little too premature at this point.</div> Oh there will be times when I get on Sjax as well for dumb moves, arguing with refs, and bad shot selection, but he does in fewer dribbles what I expect him to do. Plus, he plays better D. He's more of a role player and he's paid less than Al and Baron, which means there's less worry about coming up with the money to find a real keeper who you can truly build a team around (I don't believe in building a team around another team's castoffs unless its a willing free agent who isn't asking to be overpaid). Again, I don't know much about the team dynamic outside the court, but I'm sure that factors in. I don't want to take away one guy like Baron and it ends up destroying the team's drive. I do know that we lost Jrich because of money, which wasn't good. I recognized his flaws and still thought he was a keeper, so it probably influenced me to demand more shooting guard skills from the small forward position since Jrich had little skill at times to play a guard... But now that we lost him, it's like... what are we doing? Who do we focus on more now? Biedrins or Ellis? I think both, so that means I'd rather convert Baron into some other player so he doesn't get in the way of Ellis, and find somebody to help Biedrins at PF. We need somebody that is a prototype PF and I think Wright looks to be the best option unless there somebody we can find in the draft or trade that's better. I like PG, SF, C, but really miss what used to happen at SG (SF), and we've always missed a good power forward. The best 4 we've had in a while that covers both offense and defense was Clif Robinson... and for him to work we needed Dampier providing interior presence since Robinson played more like Rasheed Wallace, an-all around, face-up, defensive type power forward that doesn't really rebound that great for his size. For SG, I'm hoping we find somebody that is prototype (Marco looks to be it), but I worry about not having that small forward power game that jrich used to have. Marco does look exciting when he hits a long J or does one of those 360 dunks.
