<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (soul driver @ Apr 17 2008, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And, knowing many cops personally, some may just look at a "case" like this and laugh and let the kid go and tell the Izod folks, "thanks for wasting my time" . Jigga made some good points.</div> Thats up for those officers to decide. I cant say what problems we have had like that, however we have had them and every single time the police either local or NJSP helped us 100%.
Right but in this case no crime was committed, so let the officers involve themselves with this as much as they want.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Main Event @ Apr 17 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right but in this case no crime was committed, so let the officers involve themselves with this as much as they want.</div> Here is the problem, in a case like this i would say that had that kid decided to bolt from the security officers, the state police would of been called and well the kid would be in a lot of hot water. We had one problem last year when a guest was being dumb and trying to get away from security and talking crap to security. Well the state police showed up, slamed the guys head into the ground the guy had a broken nose, and the State police took him away.
i'm surprised to hear people say he doesn't have a case. Security physically pulled him out of the aisle. What if he fell and cracked open his head because this security guard reacted physically instead of rationally. Would he still not have a case? The kid went with the guard freely and didn't resist so i don't think it's hard to imagine the kid would have sat down if the guard gave him a warning first. I also see absolutely nothing wrong with what the kid did so i don't know what the Nets would want him to apologize for. If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way? Yes i agree that it is private property and nets can kick him out but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it and the guard physically pulling this kid down like that was definately the wrong way. I would want at least something to happen to the guard simply so that he knows he shouldn't be just grabbing anyone like that. If anything, the kid should accept the punishment but ask the nets and security guard for an apology for the assault committed by guard and then agree not to sue. Also, is the guy even a security guard or an usher? if he's only an usher then it's even worse and i think the kid has even more grounds to sue.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Apr 17 2008, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i'm surprised to hear people say he doesn't have a case. Security physically pulled him out of the aisle. What if he fell and cracked open his head because this security guard reacted physically instead of rationally. Would he still not have a case? The kid went with the guard freely and didn't resist so i don't think it's hard to imagine the kid would have sat down if the guard gave him a warning first. I also see absolutely nothing wrong with what the kid did so i don't know what the Nets would want him to apologize for. If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way? Yes i agree that it is private property and nets can kick him out but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it and the guard physically pulling this kid down like that was definately the wrong way. I would want at least something to happen to the guard simply so that he knows he shouldn't be just grabbing anyone like that. If anything, the kid should accept the punishment but ask the nets and security guard for an apology for the assault committed by guard and then agree not to sue. Also, is the guy even a security guard or an usher? if he's only an usher then it's even worse and i think the kid has even more grounds to sue.</div> As you said the Izod center, and the nets are Private property, Therfore they can make there own rules as long as they are legal and not basied. There is no case here trust me. The security officer ( please people we are not Guards) pulled on him softly, there was no more force then what was needed in something like this. I dont agree with the use of force, however my company's policy and the nets policy's are more than likley diffrent. There is no need for the nets or security to offer a sorry in this matter, the kid was acting out of order standing on the seat holding a big sign that blocked the view of other fans. If this happend at where i work, it would of been handled better and in a diffrent manner, however as much as i think there is a problem here this will not hold up in court. Also the kid has a chance to be allowed back, consider that lucky with a good letter he will be back, at our place the kid would be banned for the whole year and maybe even for life, and if he did show up he would end up in jail.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As you said the Izod center, and the nets are Private property, Therfore they can make there own rules as long as they are legal and not basied. There is no case here trust me. The security officer ( please people we are not Guards) pulled on him softly, there was no more force then what was needed in something like this. I dont agree with the use of force, however my company's policy and the nets policy's are more than likley diffrent. There is no need for the nets or security to offer a sorry in this matter, the kid was acting out of order standing on the seat holding a big sign that blocked the view of other fans. If this happend at where i work, it would of been handled better and in a diffrent manner, however as much as i think there is a problem here this will not hold up in court. Also the kid has a chance to be allowed back, consider that lucky with a good letter he will be back, at our place the kid would be banned for the whole year and maybe even for life, and if he did show up he would end up in jail.</div> You definately have more experience than I do but I see nothing 'soft' about the way he grabbed him. he pulled him down and across 3 chairs. It was completely unnecessary. If i did that to someone wouldn't I be charged with assault? just because he's security shouldn't give him the right to put his hands on someone unless it's absolutely necessary. that's where i see a problem in the video...especially a kid. this isn't some 250 lb drunk guy that's being unruly. Which brings up another aspect, if i was the parents of this kid then i would be extremely upset. If this was some other parent who grabbed a kid like that then i'm sure there'd be outrage so why should there be any less because it was security? As i said before, there's a right way and a wrong way. I will rescind all my arguments if it's proven that security asked him to sit down and the kid said No or F you. This just seems like a case of grab first, ask questions later. but to maybe put the matter to rest, i guess i'm saying that even if he has no case legally, security was dead wrong here and needs retraining or a written warning.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Apr 17 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i'm surprised to hear people say he doesn't have a case. Security physically pulled him out of the aisle. What if he fell and cracked open his head because this security guard reacted physically instead of rationally. Would he still not have a case? The kid went with the guard freely and didn't resist so i don't think it's hard to imagine the kid would have sat down if the guard gave him a warning first. I also see absolutely nothing wrong with what the kid did so i don't know what the Nets would want him to apologize for. If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way? Yes i agree that it is private property and nets can kick him out but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it and the guard physically pulling this kid down like that was definately the wrong way. I would want at least something to happen to the guard simply so that he knows he shouldn't be just grabbing anyone like that. If anything, the kid should accept the punishment but ask the nets and security guard for an apology for the assault committed by guard and then agree not to sue. Also, is the guy even a security guard or an usher? if he's only an usher then it's even worse and i think the kid has even more grounds to sue.</div> Just because you are offended at how it was handled and it could have "possibly" led to injury, you can't sue. I mean you could, but it's a total waste of time and screams of ambulance chasing. Just like you said, "If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way?" If this wasn't an Izod Center security officer, but rather some fan that liked Frank that decided to pull him out of his seat, would we be discussing suing the individual? No. The kid would've taken his lumps and walked away.
This is getting blown wayy outta proportion. So the kid with 0 athletic ability and coordination fell of his seat when a security guard grabbed him and some douche screams "I got it on video!!" like it's a murder scene. It's really not a big deal..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bravo369 @ Apr 17 2008, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As you said the Izod center, and the nets are Private property, Therfore they can make there own rules as long as they are legal and not basied. There is no case here trust me. The security officer ( please people we are not Guards) pulled on him softly, there was no more force then what was needed in something like this. I dont agree with the use of force, however my company's policy and the nets policy's are more than likley diffrent. There is no need for the nets or security to offer a sorry in this matter, the kid was acting out of order standing on the seat holding a big sign that blocked the view of other fans. If this happend at where i work, it would of been handled better and in a diffrent manner, however as much as i think there is a problem here this will not hold up in court. Also the kid has a chance to be allowed back, consider that lucky with a good letter he will be back, at our place the kid would be banned for the whole year and maybe even for life, and if he did show up he would end up in jail.</div> You definately have more experience than I do but I see nothing 'soft' about the way he grabbed him. he pulled him down and across 3 chairs. It was completely unnecessary. If i did that to someone wouldn't I be charged with assault? just because he's security shouldn't give him the right to put his hands on someone unless it's absolutely necessary. that's where i see a problem in the video...especially a kid. this isn't some 250 lb drunk guy that's being unruly. Which brings up another aspect, if i was the parents of this kid then i would be extremely upset. If this was some other parent who grabbed a kid like that then i'm sure there'd be outrage so why should there be any less because it was security? As i said before, there's a right way and a wrong way. I will rescind all my arguments if it's proven that security asked him to sit down and the kid said No or F you. This just seems like a case of grab first, ask questions later. but to maybe put the matter to rest, i guess i'm saying that even if he has no case legally, security was dead wrong here and needs retraining or a written warning. </div> I have looked at the video about 10 times, I dont think he was garbed hard, i dont. Do i agree with it, no. What we would of done is to ask a few times for the kid to sit down, take the sign and deal with it that way and then do this if there was no response to that. However here is why i think security was right, the kid was standing on a chair blocking people's views, security removed him not in the right way however they did do the right thing. Put it this way if a person comes to my job, and we have a concert on any given night and you are sitting and the person in front of you all out of the blue stands up block's your view and holds a sign how would you feel?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Apr 17 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is getting blown wayy outta proportion. So the kid with 0 athletic ability and coordination fell of his seat when a security guard grabbed him and some douche screams "I got it on video!!" like it's a murder scene. It's really not a big deal..</div> Exactly, which brings me to this I thought it was agnsit NJSEA Policy to record video on their property.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 17 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just like you said, "If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way?" If this wasn't an Izod Center security officer, but rather some fan that liked Frank that decided to pull him out of his seat, would we be discussing suing the individual? No. The kid would've taken his lumps and walked away.</div> You're right, they wouldn't have reacted the same way, they would have pulled him off the seat took him out of the building, and put him in a psychiatric ward.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Apr 17 2008, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 17 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just like you said, "If he stood on the seat and held up a sign that said "RJ FOR MVP" would security have reacted the same way?" If this wasn't an Izod Center security officer, but rather some fan that liked Frank that decided to pull him out of his seat, would we be discussing suing the individual? No. The kid would've taken his lumps and walked away.</div> You're right, they wouldn't have reacted the same way, they would have pulled him off the seat took him out of the building, and put him in a psychiatric ward. </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Apr 17 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is getting blown wayy outta proportion. So the kid with 0 athletic ability and coordination fell of his seat when a security guard grabbed him and some douche screams "I got it on video!!" like it's a murder scene. It's really not a big deal..</div> lol....that was me yelling. i was hyped up. it was during the nets ralley.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Apr 17 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Apr 17 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is getting blown wayy outta proportion. So the kid with 0 athletic ability and coordination fell of his seat when a security guard grabbed him and some douche screams "I got it on video!!" like it's a murder scene. It's really not a big deal..</div> lol....that was me yelling. i was hyped up. it was during the nets ralley. </div> Nice Job, trying out for Public address person next year? J/K
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Main Event @ Apr 17 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right but in this case no crime was committed, so let the officers involve themselves with this as much as they want.</div> Here is the problem, in a case like this i would say that had that kid decided to bolt from the security officers, the state police would of been called and well the kid would be in a lot of hot water. We had one problem last year when a guest was being dumb and trying to get away from security and talking crap to security. Well the state police showed up, slamed the guys head into the ground the guy had a broken nose, and the State police took him away. </div> I'm not a lawyer, but I have been involved in a case where an adult put his hands on a minor and have worked in a field where the legal ramifications of restraint were discussed. When I was in high school, an adult had a physical confrontation with a friend. My friend, who was sixteen, was behaving like a immature brat and running his mouth and that led to some pushing, shoving and grabbing. There were no punches thrown and no one was remotely hurt, but the adult did get into trouble because he put his hands on a minor. In this case, the kid might have broken a rule, but he didn't break the law. To the best of my understanding, the security guard broke the law when he grabbed the minor. If the minor had decided to walk to the exit, I don't see how security could have stopped him since detaining someone against their will is against the law except that they would have used superior numbers to force him to go and most people don't know their rights and can't really afford to pursue action if their rights are violated. This is why women, especially minority women, are victimized so much by strip searches at airports. The truth is that you only get as much justice in this world as you can afford.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale @ Apr 17 2008, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Main Event @ Apr 17 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right but in this case no crime was committed, so let the officers involve themselves with this as much as they want.</div> Here is the problem, in a case like this i would say that had that kid decided to bolt from the security officers, the state police would of been called and well the kid would be in a lot of hot water. We had one problem last year when a guest was being dumb and trying to get away from security and talking crap to security. Well the state police showed up, slamed the guys head into the ground the guy had a broken nose, and the State police took him away. </div> I'm not a lawyer, but I have been involved in a case where an adult put his hands on a minor and have worked in a field where the legal ramifications of restraint were discussed. When I was in high school, an adult had a physical confrontation with a friend. My friend, who was sixteen, was behaving like a immature brat and running his mouth and that led to some pushing, shoving and grabbing. There were no punches thrown and no one was remotely hurt, but the adult did get into trouble because he put his hands on a minor. In this case, the kid might have broken a rule, but he didn't break the law. To the best of my understanding, the security guard broke the law when he grabbed the minor. If the minor had decided to walk to the exit, I don't see how security could have stopped him since detaining someone against their will is against the law except that they would have used superior numbers to force him to go and most people don't know their rights and can't really afford to pursue action if their rights are violated. This is why women, especially minority women, are victimized so much by strip searches at airports. The truth is that you only get as much justice in this world as you can afford. </div> the kid was 18, above the law.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale @ Apr 17 2008, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Main Event @ Apr 17 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right but in this case no crime was committed, so let the officers involve themselves with this as much as they want.</div> Here is the problem, in a case like this i would say that had that kid decided to bolt from the security officers, the state police would of been called and well the kid would be in a lot of hot water. We had one problem last year when a guest was being dumb and trying to get away from security and talking crap to security. Well the state police showed up, slamed the guys head into the ground the guy had a broken nose, and the State police took him away. </div> I'm not a lawyer, but I have been involved in a case where an adult put his hands on a minor and have worked in a field where the legal ramifications of restraint were discussed. When I was in high school, an adult had a physical confrontation with a friend. My friend, who was sixteen, was behaving like a immature brat and running his mouth and that led to some pushing, shoving and grabbing. There were no punches thrown and no one was remotely hurt, but the adult did get into trouble because he put his hands on a minor. In this case, the kid might have broken a rule, but he didn't break the law. To the best of my understanding, the security guard broke the law when he grabbed the minor. If the minor had decided to walk to the exit, I don't see how security could have stopped him since detaining someone against their will is against the law except that they would have used superior numbers to force him to go and most people don't know their rights and can't really afford to pursue action if their rights are violated. This is why women, especially minority women, are victimized so much by strip searches at airports. The truth is that you only get as much justice in this world as you can afford. </div> Sorry but the security officers in that broke no rules, when force becomes needed to break something up it is allowed. What you also forget is that holding someone unlawfully is for police, not Security Private security is a whole diffrent ball game and as it is private property the izod center that is, had the kid bolted State police would of been called and the kid would be in lockup, with a criminal record over something that dumb. It is always better to let Security take the report and handle it instead of a police dept, espically the NJSP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What you also forget is that holding someone unlawfully is for police, not Security Private security is a whole diffrent ball game and as it is private property the izod center that is</div> Nope... I can't lock you up in my closet just because I'm not a cop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 17 2008, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Apr 17 2008, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What you also forget is that holding someone unlawfully is for police, not Security Private security is a whole diffrent ball game and as it is private property the izod center that is</div> Nope... I can't lock you up in my closet just because I'm not a cop. </div> Oh great one please tell me what i did wrong and what security agency/ dept are you employed by, better yet can i see your security badge please? Private security is governed by less laws and policys then Law Enforcment is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKidHypno @ Apr 17 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Apr 17 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is getting blown wayy outta proportion. So the kid with 0 athletic ability and coordination fell of his seat when a security guard grabbed him and some douche screams "I got it on video!!" like it's a murder scene. It's really not a big deal..</div> lol....that was me yelling. i was hyped up. it was during the nets ralley. </div> lmao my bad about the name callin then. I love how you go from screaming to all silent when the security guard came near you hahahha
