WTF??? http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2008050602 <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Garnett finished third in the MVP voting announced Tuesday, and James was fourth. “I just thought that LeBron should have been higher,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said, pausing for effect. “We’re playing Cleveland, right? As a matter of fact, I thought he should have won.” … Cleveland shot 18 of the game’s first 22 free throws. … Cassell was called for a flagrant foul when he kept James from a free throw with 5 1/2 minutes left in the half. The replay seemed to indicate that James enhanced the damage, and the Boston fans let him know they were on to him. … Cleveland’s Wally Szczerbiak missed his first five shots before going to the bench in the first quarter.</div> Yeah... and the Lakers didnt make the playoffs
Hes being sarcastic fool. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Doc Rivers said, pausing for effect. “We’re playing Cleveland, right? As a matter of fact, I thought he should have won.”</div> Do you seriously not get that?
If he was sarcastic, then I disagree, and I actually think Lebron should have won. Despite a mediocre coach, and a variety of one-sided players, and little other players that are reliable to run the offense/create their own shot. Lebron does a lot for that team, throughout the 82 games, I think he was more valuable to the Cavs than Kobe was to the Lakers, although Chris Paul is a close 2nd. (Kobe was a close 3rd behind CP3 in my books)
LeBron's not as empirically valuable over here (in the West). Kobe has to subjugate himself on this team, the way Pierce/KG do in Boston. That's why i give him the edge, aside from the intagibles. Paul's right up there though, he fits the mold of what the Media looks for in an MVP. I just wouldn't have given it to him in this close race for the reasons I've stated in the past.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ May 7 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he was sarcastic, then I disagree, and I actually think Lebron should have won. Despite a mediocre coach, and a variety of one-sided players, and little other players that are reliable to run the offense/create their own shot. Lebron does a lot for that team, throughout the 82 games, I think he was more valuable to the Cavs than Kobe was to the Lakers, although Chris Paul is a close 2nd. (Kobe was a close 3rd behind CP3 in my books)</div> I'm still waiting on your reason as to why you have such flawed thinking? Take Kobe away from the Lakers for the stretch that Bynum was hurt, or Gasol, and they're god awful. The same can be said for Paul and LeBron and their respective teams, but neither of those players faced the adversity that Kobe did. LeBron put up great stats in a very weak conference. He couldn't lead his team to a top 3 seed, either. Paul's team had the #1 spot in the west for the majority of the year, but they failed to hold on to it and basically crumbled when it mattered. They also didn't have any major injuries to any of their top 3 players that kept them out for an extended period of time. Kobe had to hold this team together through Bynum's season ending injury, Gasol's ankle injury, his torn tendon and broken bone in his shooting hand, a slightly torn quadriceps muscle, Ariza's injury, the adjusting to Gasol's game and during the crucial part of the season--the last homestand--Kobe led the Lakers to victories over New Orleans and San Antonio to take over and secure the #1 seed in the western conference. If you forgot, every team that made the playoffs in the West had 50+ wins. Bryant also knocked the rep of being selfish (which he isn't, hasn't been for 3+ years now) and got his teammates involved--this time though, they actually produced. I just don't see how you can argue against Bryant not being a top two candidate--mainly LeBron being in front of him. If it was Paul as your number 1, then I could understand--somewhat. LeBron is in Kobe's situation of a few years back, yet he isn't the best player in the league. Offensively he can hang with Kobe, passing wise he edges Kobe. On defense, in the clutch, and yes...as a leader, he doesn't perform as well as Kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 7 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron's not as empirically valuable over here (in the West). Kobe has to subjugate himself on this team, the way Pierce/KG do in Boston. That's why i give him the edge, aside from the intagibles. Paul's right up there though, he fits the mold of what the Media looks for in an MVP. I just wouldn't have given it to him in this close race for the reasons I've stated in the past.</div> First off, Kobe actually scored slightly less, at a slightly lower FG%, and grabbed less rebounds against the East than against the West. Everything else was the same Lebron scored slightly less, at a slightly lower FG% against the West, Everything else was the same. And the Cavs actually had a better win% against the West (57%) than the East (54%). The Lakers were worse against the East (67%) than the West (71%). Do I think that CP3 more of what the media is looking for in the MVP than Lebron this year? Yes. And Kobe even more of what the Media would consider MVP. However I don't agree with the criteria for MVP voting, I think when Kobe was putting up 35.4/5.3/4.5 (ppg/rpg/apg) on 45% FG%,and carrying a Lakers that was developing that Kobe was the MVP. However I'm sure the media took no notice in MVP voting. You could have the best player on the team that ends up with a bad record, and he would be completely ignored in MVP voting. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ May 7 2008, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ May 7 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he was sarcastic, then I disagree, and I actually think Lebron should have won. Despite a mediocre coach, and a variety of one-sided players, and little other players that are reliable to run the offense/create their own shot. Lebron does a lot for that team, throughout the 82 games, I think he was more valuable to the Cavs than Kobe was to the Lakers, although Chris Paul is a close 2nd. (Kobe was a close 3rd behind CP3 in my books)</div> I'm still waiting on your reason as to why you have such flawed thinking? Take Kobe away from the Lakers for the stretch that Bynum was hurt, or Gasol, and they're god awful. The same can be said for Paul and LeBron and their respective teams, but neither of those players faced the adversity that Kobe did. LeBron put up great stats in a very weak conference. He couldn't lead his team to a top 3 seed, either. Paul's team had the #1 spot in the west for the majority of the year, but they failed to hold on to it and basically crumbled when it mattered. They also didn't have any major injuries to any of their top 3 players that kept them out for an extended period of time. Kobe had to hold this team together through Bynum's season ending injury, Gasol's ankle injury, his torn tendon and broken bone in his shooting hand, a slightly torn quadriceps muscle, Ariza's injury, the adjusting to Gasol's game and during the crucial part of the season--the last homestand--Kobe led the Lakers to victories over New Orleans and San Antonio to take over and secure the #1 seed in the western conference. If you forgot, every team that made the playoffs in the West had 50+ wins. Bryant also knocked the rep of being selfish (which he isn't, hasn't been for 3+ years now) and got his teammates involved--this time though, they actually produced. I just don't see how you can argue against Bryant not being a top two candidate--mainly LeBron being in front of him. If it was Paul as your number 1, then I could understand--somewhat. LeBron is in Kobe's situation of a few years back, yet he isn't the best player in the league. Offensively he can hang with Kobe, passing wise he edges Kobe. On defense, in the clutch, and yes...as a leader, he doesn't perform as well as Kobe. </div> The Numbers Lebron puts up against the West are pretty much the same as the East. Same thing with Kobe against the East. I think the biggest difference is coaching. Phil Jackson is a great coach, and has a system that spaces well, and best maximizes Bryant's talent. The second difference, is front line. Lamar Odom + either Pau Gasol or Bynum (combined 62 games) is better than an offensive liability (Ben Wallace) + Big Z (73 games)
That doesn't change the fact that Kobe led his team to the top spot in the western conference--the toughest conference in a long time, if not ever, and LeBron had his team at number 4. Like I said, LeBron's in a position where he is statistically great, but doesn't have the pieces to lead his ball club to a championship. He needs help around him--Like Kobe did. The difference is Kobe voiced his displeasure and help was acquired.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ May 7 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First off, Kobe actually scored slightly less, at a slightly lower FG%, and grabbed less rebounds against the East than against the West. Everything else was the same Lebron scored slightly less, at a slightly lower FG% against the West, Everything else was the same. And the Cavs actually had a better win% against the West (57%) than the East (54%). The Lakers were worse against the East (67%) than the West (71%).</div> Winning doesn't solely depend on LeBron and Kobe. Just taking a look at their production, Kobe is superior against Good teams by a noticeable amount. LeBron's TS% takes a noticeable dip against these talented teams as well, it's nothing to just ignore. http://82games.com/COM1S11.HTM LeBron exploits his inflated stats by being in this eastern conference. He had a 46/29 split.
Lol, come on guys, the reason he said "We're playing cleveland right? I think he should have won" is because jokingly he was trying to say that he and Boston are trying to stay on LeBron's good side so he doesn't explode on them. He knows what Stevenson and the Wiz did last series and how that ended up. Come on, don't jump the gun all the time
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ May 7 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That doesn't change the fact that Kobe led his team to the top spot in the western conference--the toughest conference in a long time, if not ever, and LeBron had his team at number 4. Like I said, LeBron's in a position where he is statistically great, but doesn't have the pieces to lead his ball club to a championship. He needs help around him--Like Kobe did. The difference is Kobe voiced his displeasure and help was acquired.</div> lol, giving props for Kobe complaining seems the opposite of what should happen. Demanding a trade out of the organization, that's what people hate players for. Anyway even if you liked the fact that he complained, his complaint was foolish, as he wanted a rising center Bynum to be packaged up for Kidd, which would have included Kwame Brown, who ended up being included in the steal of a deal, and costs less per year than Kidd and is much younger. I agree that he needs better players (and coach) around him, but in the 05-06 season, Kobe didn't have the pieces to compete for the championship, but he was having a MVP season. Although the media didn't even give him a single 5th place vote. Ray Allen received 2 3rd place votes, 8 4th place votes, 7 5th place votes. lol Kobe had 0 3rd place, 0 4th place, 0 5th place votes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (illmatic @ May 7 2008, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol, come on guys, the reason he said "We're playing cleveland right? I think he should have won" is because jokingly he was trying to say that he and Boston are trying to stay on LeBron's good side so he doesn't explode on them. He knows what Stevenson and the Wiz did last series and how that ended up. Come on, don't jump the gun all the time </div> Huh???
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobe23 @ May 7 2008, 03:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (illmatic @ May 7 2008, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol, come on guys, the reason he said "We're playing cleveland right? I think he should have won" is because jokingly he was trying to say that he and Boston are trying to stay on LeBron's good side so he doesn't explode on them. He knows what Stevenson and the Wiz did last series and how that ended up. Come on, don't jump the gun all the time </div> Huh??? </div> LOL Are you being serious?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ May 7 2008, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ May 7 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That doesn't change the fact that Kobe led his team to the top spot in the western conference--the toughest conference in a long time, if not ever, and LeBron had his team at number 4. Like I said, LeBron's in a position where he is statistically great, but doesn't have the pieces to lead his ball club to a championship. He needs help around him--Like Kobe did. The difference is Kobe voiced his displeasure and help was acquired.</div> lol, giving props for Kobe complaining seems the opposite of what should happen. Demanding a trade out of the organization, that's what people hate players for. Anyway even if you liked the fact that he complained, his complaint was foolish, as he wanted a rising center Bynum to be packaged up for Kidd, which would have included Kwame Brown, who ended up being included in the steal of a deal, and costs less per year than Kidd and is much younger. I agree that he needs better players (and coach) around him, but in the 05-06 season, Kobe didn't have the pieces to compete for the championship, but he was having a MVP season. Although the media didn't even give him a single 5th place vote. Ray Allen received 2 3rd place votes, 8 4th place votes, 7 5th place votes. lol Kobe had 0 3rd place, 0 4th place, 0 5th place votes. </div> There's no way Kobe saw the Pau trade coming, it's foolish to just otherwise stick with the same roster if you're the Lakers. The gist of what he said in the off-season was valid. It amazes me how well the Lakers did with Bynum though.
I do give Kobe props for calling out the organization. They lied to him, turned down numerous deals, etc. Did he handle it the right way? No, but he ignited the flame under them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ May 7 2008, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If he was sarcastic, then I disagree, and I actually think Lebron should have won. Despite a mediocre coach, and a variety of one-sided players, and little other players that are reliable to run the offense/create their own shot. Lebron does a lot for that team, throughout the 82 games, I think he was more valuable to the Cavs than Kobe was to the Lakers, although Chris Paul is a close 2nd. (Kobe was a close 3rd behind CP3 in my books)</div> LeBron does deserve to be in the discussion, but the trend for the past few MVPs hasn't been an award driven by individual stats, but an award given to the player on the best team. LeBron had an amazing individual season and his team won a respectable 45 games, but when you take into account LeBron plays in the weaker conference and the Cavs would be a lottery team if they were in the West he shouldn't be ahead of Paul, Kobe, or KG. Those three players had outstanding season statistics and their teams won plenty more than Cleveland did. As we witnessed with Kobe, playing with lesser talent isn't taken into consideration when these writers vote. I felt it was a two man race between Kobe and Paul, with the team winning the West the most deserving MVP canidate for their respective team. LeBron is arguably the most valuable player for his team, but he's not deserving of being the league's MVP until his team can catch up and the Cavs can become a 1st or 2nd place team in the East with 50+ wins.
