Kobe vs. MJ

I've never really been an MJ fan. Nor will I ever be. But for some reason, I still find Kobe the better man. And yes, I am a Lakers fan.

Just look at yesterday's game.

Kobe Bryant Goes for 27 in Comeback

Video

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 23 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wilkins and Bird were slowing down, both were also Power Forwards.</div>

So you believe McHale was a SF?

With a starting lineup of Tree Rollins, Kevin Willis, Dominique, Doc Rivers and Randy Wittman you believe Dominique was a PF?

Dominique averaged 29.9 PPG in 1992-1993 and only entered the NBA two seasons before MJ. Through MJ's first 3 championships, Dominique was not slowing down.

 

Bill Russell has more championships than Jordan and Kobe combined!

Bill Russell FTW!

 

Kobe Bryant is the greatest player of all-time. Period.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LOL

You'd think Kobe would be MVP every year if he were the best player in the league. Jordan wasn't considered the best in the league, but the best of all time. The debate wasn't vs. Kobe, but vs. Chamberlain.

For most of his career, Shaq was the better player, or why would the offense run through him? Not only was Shaq better, but so was KG. Apparently in every season of Kobe's career until now, there was a better player (who won all the MVP awards).

Kobe's only 3 NBA championships and 4 MVPs behind Jordan's accomplishments in 3 less seasons than Jordan's entire career.

There isn't a statistical category that Jordan doesn't dominate when comparing the two. Like the 11 scoring championships to 2.</div>

let's not make it seem like MJ was viewed as the best player in the league throughout his career. For a number of years Magic and Bird were at the moutain top..........I'd even say that Hakeem was the best player in the NBA for a stretch when Jordan was still playing, but you'd never know, because of his mediocre supporting cast. I take things like MVPs with a grain of salt, because a lot of those awards are based on your teams performance.....

 

and just to let you know I'm not a lakers fan. To be honest up until about 3 years ago I really didn't care for kobe too much, but over the years I've grown to like him as a fan of basketball, because I honestly believe he's probably the most talented player that I've seen play the game.........including Jordan.

and you have to remember that I worshipped MJ growing up (not as much as hakeem, lol...but u get the point), so it isn't like I'm showing favortism towards kobe. I've always thought if Tmac had the heart that he could be one of the greatest ever, because physically he used to be able to do some flat out amazing things.........I'm in agreement that Jordan is better than Kobe (so far), but when it comes to their offensive skillz Kobe blows him out the water imo...........

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Believe me The Dream was Kobe Hater #1 at one point and a heavily addicted to the Dwyane Wade kool-aid.</div>

I've always been a fan of kobe's skillz, but it's one the off the court things and some of his mannerisms that used to bother me. I think he's matured over the years just like any human being so I can appreciate his game more now.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ May 22 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"Kobe can do things Michael never could."

I see something like that and have to shake my head. I admit I'm a biased Bulls fan, but I also happen to like the Lakers and Kobe, too.

Kobe's a 22PPG career playoff scorer. Jordan averaged 33.4PPG for his career in the playoffs.

Jordan put up 32.4 PPG in 21 playoff games at the age of 34. Heck, Jordan was a top 15 player in the NBA with the Wizards at the age of 40.

Kobe still can't do what Jordan could do as a rookie and 2nd year player. Look at what Jordan singlehandedly did to the Celtics in the playoffs - 63 points against triple teams, often scoring against all 5 Celtics trying to defend him on a single play.

Jordan's game evolved as he grew as a player. Kobe looks like the same player he's been for years. Time will tell if Kobe can adjust and play at a high level well into his 30s.

Jordan turned himself into an effective power forward late in his career, scoring from the post with his back to the basket on play after play. Just when you thought you saw it all, he'd go nail 6 straight 3 pointers.

Jordan won 5 MVPs, 6 NBA titles, and led his team to near back-to-back 70 win seasons.

Jordan is 3rd lifetime in total points scored, Kobe hasn't broken the top 20 yet.

Kobe's 81 points in a game is an outstanding achievement. He scored 50 points in a game 23 times in his career. Jordan only scored 69 as his best and 50 points over 30 times. Kobe might catch him on that score.

Kobe's not done yet, that's for sure. The Lakers still have to prove they can win a championship with this current roster, let alone win 3 more to match Jordan's totals.

Kobe's career stats:
25 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 4.6 APG

Jordan's career stats:
30.1 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.3 APG</div>

The only thing that is silly is this post. There are many things that Kobe does much better than Jordan ever did. We tend to reminisce on players and remember them as better than they actually were. Jordan is arguably the GOAT, but Kobe is a much better jump shooter than Jordan was and Kobe has infinitely more range than Jordan did. In fact, Jordan was a very poor long range shooter. If I remember correctly, the only years he shot the long ball well was when the 3 point line was shortened. Also, to state that Jordan was a top 15 player with the Wizards is completely untrue. He was never close to that in his years with the Wizards. In fact, his selection to the All-Star team in 2003 was extremely debatable.

 

Let me add that Kobe is also a more creative scorer than Jordan was. He's got more moves and can score in more ways than Jordan could. It is obvious that Kobe patterned his game after MJ's though.

FWIW, I consider Oscar to be the GOAT..by far.

 

I wonder how many of Oscar's games you watched.

Let's not forget that the pace of the game was 25-30% faster during Oscar's time, equivalent to double-triple overtime in today's NBA. Put it in context.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 25 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wonder how many of Oscar's games you watched.

Let's not forget that the pace of the game was 25-30% faster during Oscar's time, equivalent to double-triple overtime in today's NBA. Put it in context.</div>

He's probably watched every game. Been there court side.

 

kobe = better scorer

MJ= more all-rounded

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ May 26 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>kobe = better scorer

MJ= more all-rounded</div>

Got a mathematician right hurr.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ May 25 2008, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrandKenyon6 @ May 25 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ May 22 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"Kobe can do things Michael never could."

I see something like that and have to shake my head. I admit I'm a biased Bulls fan, but I also happen to like the Lakers and Kobe, too.

Kobe's a 22PPG career playoff scorer. Jordan averaged 33.4PPG for his career in the playoffs.

Jordan put up 32.4 PPG in 21 playoff games at the age of 34. Heck, Jordan was a top 15 player in the NBA with the Wizards at the age of 40.

Kobe still can't do what Jordan could do as a rookie and 2nd year player. Look at what Jordan singlehandedly did to the Celtics in the playoffs - 63 points against triple teams, often scoring against all 5 Celtics trying to defend him on a single play.

Jordan's game evolved as he grew as a player. Kobe looks like the same player he's been for years. Time will tell if Kobe can adjust and play at a high level well into his 30s.

Jordan turned himself into an effective power forward late in his career, scoring from the post with his back to the basket on play after play. Just when you thought you saw it all, he'd go nail 6 straight 3 pointers.

Jordan won 5 MVPs, 6 NBA titles, and led his team to near back-to-back 70 win seasons.

Jordan is 3rd lifetime in total points scored, Kobe hasn't broken the top 20 yet.

Kobe's 81 points in a game is an outstanding achievement. He scored 50 points in a game 23 times in his career. Jordan only scored 69 as his best and 50 points over 30 times. Kobe might catch him on that score.

Kobe's not done yet, that's for sure. The Lakers still have to prove they can win a championship with this current roster, let alone win 3 more to match Jordan's totals.

Kobe's career stats:
25 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 4.6 APG

Jordan's career stats:
30.1 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 5.3 APG</div>

The only thing that is silly is this post. There are many things that Kobe does much better than Jordan ever did. We tend to reminisce on players and remember them as better than they actually were. Jordan is arguably the GOAT, but Kobe is a much better jump shooter than Jordan was and Kobe has infinitely more range than Jordan did. In fact, Jordan was a very poor long range shooter. If I remember correctly, the only years he shot the long ball well was when the 3 point line was shortened. Also, to state that Jordan was a top 15 player with the Wizards is completely untrue. He was never close to that in his years with the Wizards. In fact, his selection to the All-Star team in 2003 was extremely debatable.
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Jordan was a phenominal outside shooter throughout his career. You don't shoot ~50% all on dunks. Few teams, if any, really emphasized 3pt shooting; so what if he didn't take many or shoot a super high %? In 1995-96, he did hit over 40% on over 250 attempts.

You think his 23+ PPG as a wizard made him not a top 15 player? Or the following season, he only averaged 19.7 so I challenge you to find 15 players who were better.
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Heh, I apologize for not following this post before...

But saying that Jordan was a phenomenal outside shooter is a joke. Jordan was a phenomenal mid-range shooter and jump shooter, but he was at best an average long range shooter over his career. Look at the amount of threes he took and the percentage at which he made them. He became a MUCH better long range shooter in his thirties than he was during most of his career, because he was REALLY working on it. Over the course of his career, he had 0.5 3FGM / 1.7 3FGA for the .327 clip. Those are NOT the stats of a "phenomenal" long range shooter as you claim. If there was one knock on Jordan, it's that he was extremely streaky from the long range.

Are you judging Top 15 in skill/performance or in PPG? I mean.. Kevin Martin and Richard Jefferson have made top 15 ppg leaders... and they'll barely crack top 50.
Jordan wasn't a Top 15 player in his 40's. He was the main cog on a team that didn't make the playoffs. I loved watching him and seeing what he could do at 39 and 40 (those consecutive 50 point games vs. New Jersey and someone else near Christmas time were a joy to watch) ... but he was but a shell of what he used to be.

 

Jordan played in a thougher era of basketball. He dominated in a era where the definition of skilled post man was at it's peak. Karl Malone, Hakeem olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Charles Barkley. Everybody knows this is a big mans game, look at 9 of the last 10 championship, and for a guard to come in and dominate the way Jordan did is unheard of. Sure players today might be more athletic, but all these big men want to is beat player athletically or by shooting a jumpshot, the big men today are no where near as good as the big men of the 90's.