Every year there are players that rise up the draft boards because of how they perform in workouts. Most players spend every day working out with personal trainers to reshape their bodies and improve their games. Because of that, they are able to go into the team workouts and look impressive. (It is the same thing that happens in the NFL with the guys that prepare for the combine) One of my all time favorite NBA workout warriors is Steven Hunter. He was completely underwhelming at DePaul, yet a few months with a personal trainer made him look impressive enough to be drafted #15. Right now, DX is doing their visits to workout camps and have already put up a couple of articles from them. So who do you see as a fast riser based upon upon they improve themselves in April and May?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ May 22 2008, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Every year there are players that rise up the draft boards because of how they perform in workouts. Most players spend every day working out with personal trainers to reshape their bodies and improve their games. Because of that, they are able to go into the team workouts and look impressive. (It is the same thing that happens in the NFL with the guys that prepare for the combine) One of my all time favorite NBA workout warriors is Steven Hunter. He was completely underwhelming at DePaul, yet a few months with a personal trainer made him look impressive enough to be drafted #15. Right now, DX is doing their visits to workout camps and have already put up a couple of articles from them. So who do you see as a fast riser based upon upon they improve themselves in April and May?</div> DeAndre Jordan and Joe Alexander are my two predictions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rosenthall @ May 25 2008, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ May 22 2008, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Every year there are players that rise up the draft boards because of how they perform in workouts. Most players spend every day working out with personal trainers to reshape their bodies and improve their games. Because of that, they are able to go into the team workouts and look impressive. (It is the same thing that happens in the NFL with the guys that prepare for the combine) One of my all time favorite NBA workout warriors is Steven Hunter. He was completely underwhelming at DePaul, yet a few months with a personal trainer made him look impressive enough to be drafted #15. Right now, DX is doing their visits to workout camps and have already put up a couple of articles from them. So who do you see as a fast riser based upon upon they improve themselves in April and May?</div> DeAndre Jordan and Joe Alexander are my two predictions. </div> I agree that Jordan and Alexander will have great workouts, but I don't see them jumping up much higher than they already are in many mock drafts. Speights is getting some buzz from his workouts already, according to Chad Ford. I think McGee will also have very good workouts and move up in the draft. As far as smaller players, Bill Walker showing that he is over his injury and Ty Lawson showing speed are my choices.
James Gist is as raw as they come, but just look at him. Some team is going to reach. He might even crack the first round. Someone will trade up in round two to get Keith Brumbaugh. He is a bargain hunter's dream and his workouts will have scouts comparing him to lottery players. Davon Jefferson has an NBA game. His workouts should move him up. He's got a lot of talent and room to grow.
I also wonder if some GM will look at the success of Millsap, Landry, Craig Smith, and all the other undersized PF who seem to contribute every year and take Richard Hendrix about 15 spots higher than expected. Worked for Detroit.
You don't need to "fix" the above post. If you like DJ White better, you can substitute him in there mentally.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ May 25 2008, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You don't need to "fix" the above post. If you like DJ White better, you can substitute him in there mentally.</div> As much as I hope he proves me wrong, I don't think DJ is going to go play well in the pros. I don't think his game will translate well. The scouting reports have been kind. I was fully expecting him to be a mid to late secound round pick. I hope I'm wrong and he finds a niche, though.
Yeah I think Hendrix is more likely to convince teams in workouts, but White has real, legit post skills and every team needs that, so who knows?
DeAndre Jordan's whole career thus far has been based on being a workout warrior. If players were drafted strictly on productivity, the league could have 25 rounds and he'd still go undrafted. I don't know if I can see Ty Lawson impressing people that much in workouts. His speed was definitely on display at North Carolina, and it's really hard to get over the height issues. In fact, I could see him slipping in workouts after teams see how short he is in person and how he gets posted up by bigger guards in 1-on-1's. James Gist, Keith Brumbaugh, and Bill Walker are good picks. Another possible workout warrior is J.R. Giddens. His problems are all within the flow of a full court game (and off-the-court), and he's really flown under the radar these last two years playing out in the MWC. You can type his name in Youtube and get pages of above the rim dunks. Here's one from his days at Kansas - [video=youtube;yoKejSN5hH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoKejSN5hH4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoKejSN5hH4[/video] By the way, on the topic of Giddens, listen to what a dumbass Steve Lavin is. "He's going with... uh... the preppy... who was that? ... uh ... look at the George Michael from Wham!" (in referrence to Giddens' Carlton dance in this year's dunk contest). [video=youtube;vqUoFxDNzlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqUoFxDNzlk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqUoFxDNzlk[/video]
I think Giddens is gonna surprise and get himself into the first round, supposedly he's really matured, and he's a prototypical 2 guard. Good call, VC.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ May 27 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DeAndre Jordan's whole career thus far has been based on being a workout warrior. If players were drafted strictly on productivity, the league could have 25 rounds and he'd still go undrafted.</div> His production was pretty good considering he came off the bench as a freshman. IMO hes a steal anywhere outside of the top 5 based on potential alone. If he stays in school another year (highly unlikely) and starts next year hes guaranteed top 3, probably #1 or #2 overall. 7'0 great athlete production was pretty solid IMO. Hes not dominating like Kevin Love out there but with his tools hes just got too much potential to pass up on. I think he'll be a pretty good player, not great, but definitely a starter. Jordan's stock has fallen lately but it probably will go back up when workouts get into full swing. IMO Speights is already waaaaaayyyyy too high based on workouts. Dude was unremarkable and Florida and I saw nothing that would make me consider him a lotto pick. Hess got the skills and a decent NBA body but on the court he is stale and doesn't stand out at all. He'll make some team regret taking him if hes picked before 20. Joe Alexander is another guy who is too high based solely on vertical leap. Sure, he gets up with the best of them and he's 6'8 but he has one move that I would consider NBA caliber and thats the fadeaway mid-range shot from the post. His mid-range game isn't even really that good, its just that shot. Hes a junior and still doesn't shoot form college 3 well, his post game will be ineffective in the NBA, he'll have to add more moves because NBA defenders will do a much better job contesting his only good shot. He can't rebound well enough to play the 4. His lateral quickness is below par for an NBA SF. I think people see the jumping ability and the production and assume hes got what it takes to be a good wing player in the league but IMO hes pretty far off from being productive in the league. Maybe he could produce a little bit in an open court system, maybe. He just doesn't have enough skill for my tastes as a junior who projects as a wing player. I don't know much about Jason Thompson but I'll bet he rises up if the size, athleticism, and combination of inside/outside skills is as advertised. NBA GMs are also strongly influenced by trends. The success of David West will bode well for Thompson since they seem to have so many similarities. Like I said, I don't know whether he'll be good or not but I'm thinking he'll end up being drafted higher than where hes projected now. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I also wonder if some GM will look at the success of Millsap, Landry, Craig Smith, and all the other undersized PF who seem to contribute every year and take Richard Hendrix about 15 spots higher than expected. Worked for Detroit.</div> GMs are definitely seeing the trend of undersized, bulky PFs who were stars in college succeeding as good role players in the NBA. Millsap, Landry, Craig Smith, Leon Powe, Maxiel, Chuck Hayes, Glenn Davis, etc. IMO Richard Hendrix will be the next one of those guys. Dude dominated the SEC facing constant double teams because his team sucked ass. Hes not super skilled from the post but has nice touch and enough explosion around the rim to finish (shot 60% FG as the only good player on his team). Dudes strong as an ox with nice mobility, great instincts, toughness, he averaged more shotblocks than DJ White despite being more of a bulky player and even shot 29% from college 3 which shows the developing mid-range shot. Hendrix did that as a junior while White's standout season was as a senior. They're both solid prospects but I'm taking Hendrix over White all day barring a drastic difference in measurements. One more note, I think Bill Walker is going to rise and appropriately so. I thought he was terrible at the beginning of last season but really started to show why hes so hyped toward the end. IMO he can be like a Maggette type of player. Jumpshot is a concern but hes only a freshman and thats a relatively easy improvement.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ May 27 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ May 27 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DeAndre Jordan's whole career thus far has been based on being a workout warrior. If players were drafted strictly on productivity, the league could have 25 rounds and he'd still go undrafted.</div> His production was pretty good considering he came off the bench as a freshman. IMO hes a steal anywhere outside of the top 5 based on potential alone. If he stays in school another year (highly unlikely) and starts next year hes guaranteed top 3, probably #1 or #2 overall. 7'0 great athlete production was pretty solid IMO. Hes not dominating like Kevin Love out there but with his tools hes just got too much potential to pass up on. I think he'll be a pretty good player, not great, but definitely a starter. Jordan's stock has fallen lately but it probably will go back up when workouts get into full swing. IMO Speights is already waaaaaayyyyy too high based on workouts. Dude was unremarkable and Florida and I saw nothing that would make me consider him a lotto pick. Hess got the skills and a decent NBA body but on the court he is stale and doesn't stand out at all. He'll make some team regret taking him if hes picked before 20. </div> Those points in bold prove my point exactly. Why is he considered such a great prospect? Size, athleticism, and potential - hence why he's a workout warrior. He didn't produce at all for the Aggies. He did one thing and one thing only - dunk. He couldn't hit a free-throw to save his life (43.7%), he had a negative A/TO ratio, he was too passive defensively and only got blocks off of his superior length and athleticism (just look at the Aggies' last game of the season when Collison drained a three right in Jordan's face to seal the win), he couldn't make a shot that wasn't five feet from the basket, and given his size, he didn't rebound nearly as well as he should have on the collegiate level. He's a workout warrior through and through, not a guy who's thought of highly because of his collegiate production. Besides, isn't it a little hypocritical to say that Marreese Speights is overrated and then support Jordan? Speights isn't as freakishly athletic, nor as tall, but he is a better than average athlete for the four spot, and he's only two inches shorter (but also stronger and bulkier). Unlike Jordan, he produced on the collegiate level, and he's got a great jumper for a guy his size. He's got all the fundamental skills Jordan needs and falls just short of Jordan's height and athleticism, yet you think Jordan's a top five prospect and Speights shouldn't go in the top 20?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ May 27 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ May 27 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ May 27 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DeAndre Jordan's whole career thus far has been based on being a workout warrior. If players were drafted strictly on productivity, the league could have 25 rounds and he'd still go undrafted.</div> His production was pretty good considering he came off the bench as a freshman. IMO hes a steal anywhere outside of the top 5 based on potential alone. If he stays in school another year (highly unlikely) and starts next year hes guaranteed top 3, probably #1 or #2 overall. 7'0 great athlete production was pretty solid IMO. Hes not dominating like Kevin Love out there but with his tools hes just got too much potential to pass up on. I think he'll be a pretty good player, not great, but definitely a starter. Jordan's stock has fallen lately but it probably will go back up when workouts get into full swing. IMO Speights is already waaaaaayyyyy too high based on workouts. Dude was unremarkable and Florida and I saw nothing that would make me consider him a lotto pick. Hess got the skills and a decent NBA body but on the court he is stale and doesn't stand out at all. He'll make some team regret taking him if hes picked before 20. </div> Those points in bold prove my point exactly. Why is he considered such a great prospect? Size, athleticism, and potential - hence why he's a workout warrior. He didn't produce at all for the Aggies. He did one thing and one thing only - dunk. He couldn't hit a free-throw to save his life (43.7%), he had a negative A/TO ratio, he was too passive defensively and only got blocks off of his superior length and athleticism (just look at the Aggies' last game of the season when Collison drained a three right in Jordan's face to seal the win), he couldn't make a shot that wasn't five feet from the basket, and given his size, he didn't rebound nearly as well as he should have on the collegiate level. He's a workout warrior through and through, not a guy who's thought of highly because of his collegiate production. Besides, isn't it a little hypocritical to say that Marreese Speights is overrated and then support Jordan? Speights isn't as freakishly athletic, nor as tall, but he is a better than average athlete for the four spot, and he's only two inches shorter (but also stronger and bulkier). Unlike Jordan, he produced on the collegiate level, and he's got a great jumper for a guy his size. He's got all the fundamental skills Jordan needs and falls just short of Jordan's height and athleticism, yet you think Jordan's a top five prospect and Speights shouldn't go in the top 20? </div> Same situation with Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Yao Ming, Tyson Chandler, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Yi Jianlian, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Tskitishvili, Nene, Amare, Eddy Curry, Desagana Diop, etc. Guys who no one really knows a ton about coming into the draft. They never really proved anything outside of HS or random HS all-star events or in Europe but were hyped and drafted very high for their size, athleticism, percieved skills, etc. These type of guys definitely have a high bust rate but like I said its all about potential. This draft sucks ass, I think you and I can both agree there. Outside the top 2 I see a ton of prospects that would be mid-late lotto or lower guys in most decent drafts. IMO if you're a crappy team with time to spare and hes there at 6 or lower you have to take him based on potential. A lot of these high potential big men end up sucking ass, a lot end up just being servicable players whether it be off the bench or starting, some become very very good, some the jury is still out on, some were considered major busts but later found their niche. Its definitely a gamble but in a draft as devoid of elite talent as this I would strongly consider him after Beasely and Rose are gone and definitely take him over anyone left on the board after Bayless and Mayo are gone. I'm not saying hes a lock for stardom, I am saying hes a big gamble. He hasn't proven anything yet but at the same time you can't deny the potential he has. I would take his potential at 5 and beyond over the likes of Brook Lopez, Danilo Galinari, Anthony Randolph, Eric Gordon, etc. Especially so if my team blows ass, looks like it will blow ass for the forseeable future, and has a need for a big man. Maybe I've just seen my team get burned in the draft by taking the "proven" guys over the "high risk" guys too many times (Joe Smith over Rasheed, KG, McDyess in 95, Todd Fuller over Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Stojakovic, and JO in 96, Adonal Foyle over T-Mac in 97, Mike Dunleavy over Amare in 02) but IMO when your team is garbage, has been garbage for a while, and has little hope of getting better any time soon then you gotta start going for homeruns instead of drafting the safe pick in the top 10 every year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ May 27 2008, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rumor is that Detroit likes DJ White at the end of round 1.</div> Dumars has a history of locking onto a player he knows he can get and then taking him no matter what. He's given a lot of guarantees to underclassmen as well. Can't argue with him. He's done a terrific job.
My biggest problem with Jordan is that he didn't improve during his season in college. That gives me no hope that he is going to make a Bynum-like transformation from a complete lazy slug in High School to an NBA player that works hard
