Who was the better upgrade from last season? Derek Fisher over Smush Parker? Paul Gasol over Kwame Brown?
If I were the Lakers, I would be a lot more confident with Smush and Gasol than with Fisher and Kwame.
Definitely Gasol. I think it is a no-brainer. Fisher has been solid all year and his veteran leadership and toughness has really matured the team...even Kobe. However, we're not a contender without Gasol. Simply put, Gasol makes us the favorite to win it all this year. Fisher does not. Drop your thoughts, Shape.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Mamba @ May 24 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Definitely Gasol. I think it is a no-brainer. Fisher has been solid all year and his veteran leadership and toughness has really matured the team...even Kobe. However, we're not a contender without Gasol. Simply put, Gasol makes us the favorite to win it all this year. Fisher does not. Drop your thoughts, Shape.</div> Werd. 6'1 shoot-first guards are a dime a dozen. The Lakers could have replaced Fisher with Bobby Jackson, Damon Stoudamire, etc., and they would have been just as successful. Pau's rare. There's not too many 7'0" finesse post players capable of leading your team in scoring, rebounding, assists, or blocks on any given night.
I don't think it's an easy choice. If Fisher wasn't signed would Kobe still be here? Let's start there because Fisher was a factor in getting Kobe to start buying into this team. It's hard to measure Fisher's leadership on and off the court, but I he's been amazing for us in the post season. He's had the toughest matchups defending Iverson, DWill, and now Parker. He does a lot of the little things on the court to help us win and has made a lot of momentum shifting jumpers all season long. The team really struggled when Farmar subbed in for Fisher in the Utah series. In contrast when Gasol gets in foul trouble, Turiaf picks up the slack on defense. Gasol is hands down the better player and has been exactly what the team needs, but look at it in this perspective. Let's say Bynum wasn't injured and continued to play at a high level. I think the Lakers would be in a similar spot with him and Fisher as they are with Gasol and Fisher. However, if the Lakers still had a backcourt of Smush/Farmar with Bynum or Gasol I'm not sure we advance past Utah.
I got to go with Fisher. Gasol is the better player as Shape had mentioned, but Fisher's presence and knowledge of the triangle made the team a better one.
Hmm, I don't know how you can argue with our record after Pau got here. Fisher's nothing special throughout the season, although he exploded on the Jazz. Odom wouldn't be where he is without Gasol.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gasol has helped Odom to a large extent, on average he's much more valuable.</div> That's a good point, but so did the emergence of Bynum. I'd argue Fisher has enabled Kobe to become a better player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 24 2008, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gasol has helped Odom to a large extent, on average he's much more valuable.</div> That's a good point, but so did the emergence of Bynum. I'd argue Fisher has enabled Kobe to become a better player. </div> I don't know how he's made Kobe much better, if at all. Empirically there is no case.
Statistically he hasn't made Kobe better. He's made Kobe a better leader and more mature, that's what Shape is referring to, I believe. I'd definitely agree with that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't agree with that either, he might have made Kobe want to stay though, I could see that.</div> Fisher is a calming influence over Kobe. He knows how to read Kobe's body language and recognizes when Kobe is struggling to keep the ball away from Kobe. I don't think anyone else on the team has the balls to keep the ball away from Kobe when he's demanding it against a defender looking for a retribution bucket. Fisher is great at settling everyone down and getting them back into the Triangle offense when the team looks like it's about to implode. Kobe has learned to be patient and relax more when his team is struggling and we're seeing that in this year's playoffs. They've both openly talked about it in interviews. Fisher knows when to back off and let Kobe operate on offense when he gets into a zone, and Fisher says he also knows when he needs to settle the team down including Kobe.
Agree with Shape 100%. Fisher has changed Kobe mentally, for the best. He's matured him and made him an amazing leader this year. This Kobe is much different than last year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 24 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't agree with that either, he might have made Kobe want to stay though, I could see that.</div> Fisher is a calming influence over Kobe. He knows how to read Kobe's body language and recognizes when Kobe is struggling to keep the ball away from Kobe. I don't think anyone else on the team has the balls to keep the ball away from Kobe when he's demanding it against a defender looking for a retribution bucket. Fisher is great at settling everyone down and getting them back into the Triangle offense when the team looks like it's about to implode. Kobe has learned to be patient and relax more when his team is struggling and we're seeing that in this year's playoffs. They've both openly talked about it in interviews. Fisher knows when to back off and let Kobe operate on offense when he gets into a zone, and Fisher says he also knows when he needs to settle the team down including Kobe. </div> First off Shape, let me say that I appreciate having the opportunity to discuss these kind of issues with veterans like you (as well as Black Mamba in other threads, VC in other cases, etc.). I really think highly of your opinion (in addition to my other Laker friends). However, I think you are really forgetting how Lamar has evolved over the season. He was <u>not</u> playing to this level before February Shape. We do not have a shot against the Jazz without Pau, Fish is out of his league. Although I am very grateful for how Fish performed against the Jazz with Farmar struggling the way he was. His playoff experience is showing and we're all happy for him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 24 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't agree with that either, he might have made Kobe want to stay though, I could see that.</div> Fisher is a calming influence over Kobe. He knows how to read Kobe's body language and recognizes when Kobe is struggling to keep the ball away from Kobe. I don't think anyone else on the team has the balls to keep the ball away from Kobe when he's demanding it against a defender looking for a retribution bucket. Fisher is great at settling everyone down and getting them back into the Triangle offense when the team looks like it's about to implode. Kobe has learned to be patient and relax more when his team is struggling and we're seeing that in this year's playoffs. They've both openly talked about it in interviews. Fisher knows when to back off and let Kobe operate on offense when he gets into a zone, and Fisher says he also knows when he needs to settle the team down including Kobe. </div> First off Shape, let me say that I appreciate having the opportunity to discuss these kind of issues with veterans like you (as well as Black Mamba in other threads, VC in other cases, etc.). I really think highly of your opinion (in addition to my other Laker friends). However, I think you are really forgetting how Lamar has evolved over the season. He was <u>not</u> playing to this level before February Shape. We do not have a shot against the Jazz without Pau, Fish is out of his league. Although I am very grateful for how Fish performed against the Jazz with Farmar struggling the way he was. His playoff experience is showing and we're all happy for him. </div> I'm not taking anything away from Gasol or his impact, but he's only been on the team a short amount of time. I just think over the course of the offseason, regular season and post season, Fisher's veteran influence over the team has really allowed them to develop into the Championship caliber team they are now. Odom's evolution began once Bynum became option #2 in the offense. Not only did Odom step up in his offensive efficiency, he also became an impact player on defense for us. I think a fair comparison is Odom with Bynum in December versus Odom with Gasol in March. Odom in December averaged 15/10/3 on 48.9% shooting with Bynum Odom in March averaged 15/13/4 on 55.2% shooting with Gasol The only number which jumps out to me is Odom's FG% after the Lakers acquired Gasol. He really increased his scoring efficiency because Pau gets him a lot of easy buckets. However, Odom was also averaging 4 more minutes per game in March.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 24 2008, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 24 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 24 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't agree with that either, he might have made Kobe want to stay though, I could see that.</div> Fisher is a calming influence over Kobe. He knows how to read Kobe's body language and recognizes when Kobe is struggling to keep the ball away from Kobe. I don't think anyone else on the team has the balls to keep the ball away from Kobe when he's demanding it against a defender looking for a retribution bucket. Fisher is great at settling everyone down and getting them back into the Triangle offense when the team looks like it's about to implode. Kobe has learned to be patient and relax more when his team is struggling and we're seeing that in this year's playoffs. They've both openly talked about it in interviews. Fisher knows when to back off and let Kobe operate on offense when he gets into a zone, and Fisher says he also knows when he needs to settle the team down including Kobe. </div> First off Shape, let me say that I appreciate having the opportunity to discuss these kind of issues with veterans like you (as well as Black Mamba in other threads, VC in other cases, etc.). I really think highly of your opinion (in addition to my other Laker friends). However, I think you are really forgetting how Lamar has evolved over the season. He was <u>not</u> playing to this level before February Shape. We do not have a shot against the Jazz without Pau, Fish is out of his league. Although I am very grateful for how Fish performed against the Jazz with Farmar struggling the way he was. His playoff experience is showing and we're all happy for him. </div> I'm not taking anything away from Gasol or his impact, but he's only been on the team a short amount of time. I just think over the course of the offseason, regular season and post season, Fisher's veteran influence over the team has really allowed them to develop into the Championship caliber team they are now. Odom's evolution began once Bynum became option #2 in the offense. Not only did Odom step up in his offensive efficiency, he also became an impact player on defense for us. I think a fair comparison is Odom with Bynum in December versus Odom with Gasol in March. Odom in December averaged 15/10/3 on 48.9% shooting with Bynum Odom in March averaged 15/13/4 on 55.2% shooting with Gasol The only number which jumps out to me is Odom's FG% after the Lakers acquired Gasol. He really increased his scoring efficiency because Pau gets him a lot of easy buckets. However, Odom was also averaging 4 more minutes per game in March. </div> Odom's meteoric rise began with Pau. Shape you picked Odom's worst statistical month with Pau. In February and April he averaged those numbers with close to 63 FG%. He was a monster. You're mistaken about the Fish + Bynum combo compared to the Farmar + Pau combo. If you're going to give Fish someone of Bynum's caliber at center, then it would be unfair to compare that to just Pau and a scrub. Bynum would have probably been even better with Gasol too.
