Heisley on Gasol trade: "maybe we would’ve gotten more"

Anyways I'm done in here because nothing is getting through to you. They shipped Pau in the same conference they are in too adding onto the stupidity. The owner has admitted it wasn't the best deal and everyone since the trade has been laughing at what a moron Chris Wallace is.

If Kevin Garnett was traded for Wally Szczerbiak, Gerald Green and two first round picks, almost a month before the trade deadline, would you say that is the best deal possible and say no GM was willing to pay that extra buck to get talent on their team?

 

oops.....double post

 

I just think it's sad to think that McFail (ahem...McHale) was able to pull off a much, much better trade that Memphis. I'm not in anyway comparing KG and Gasol in trade value but to get back a potential All-Star (20-10 man Big Al) and Glue Guy (Gomes) a large expiring contract (Ratliff) a couple young guys (Green and Telfair) not to mention two 1st Round picks?!?!? Compared to Memphis, Minnesota looks like a genious

and it's hard to justify Critt as a good young talent when theier crowded in the backcourt...btw....did Critt spend most of the time in the DNBA?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 5 2008, 04:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You do not wait for people to call you? I've heard of plenty of GMs waiting for 'the call'.</div>

Every team knew Pau was up for grabs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LA won the trade because they traded absolutely nothing away. If the Suns traded away a bench player and kept Shawn Marion they would have looked pretty damn smart too.</div>

If the other teams don't want to offer much more, LA shouldn't either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The LT or winning? There is a difference between going over the LT while giving up talent and going over it to aquire talent for nothing. You are assuming again that no GM would go over it but has there been any reports? No.</div>

Uh yes the LT matters.

How many teams have the ability to even offer superior deals? Had the teams talking to the Grizz prior, ignored the LT, or come up with a better deal, then it would have been processed. There lies the proof.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Like I stated, you said no GM's offered before so I guess I have to respect your sources as well lol.</div>

Lol what the hell? It is obvious since the Lakers won Pau. You talk like Memphis said no to four draft picks and 20 million expiring in order to give the Lakers Pau. A silly conspiracy fable.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Bulls have to pay Noc, Deng and Gordon big money while having no post pressence. Add that with a losing season and I'm sure they would have been right there offering for Pau but again you have inside sources stating it was money when nobody from the Bulls organization has said that.</div>

What inside sources? If it wasn't money, then the deal would have been made. The Bulls had better players to offer and I've heard this first from Shapecity himself, who has media credentials actually (not that it matters because this is a logic-based statement as you will see). The Bulls had a shittier offer, live with it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Very appropriate? What for the Lakers to say yes? If I was in that situation I would say it was pretty appropirate for someone higher up to be fired.</div>

Obviously we stole Pau, until you start comparing us to other deals. That is the issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 5 2008, 04:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyways I'm done in here because nothing is getting through to you. They shipped Pau in the same conference they are in too adding onto the stupidity. The owner has admitted it wasn't the best deal and everyone since the trade has been laughing at what a moron Chris Wallace is.</div>

Well I understand your perspective actually, you simply fail to recognize that the GMs are to blame, not LA.

The owner did not even admit that. He said that a better deal might have been possible, not that a better deal was offered. It should not be taking GMs that long to make reasonable offers in the first place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If Kevin Garnett was traded for Wally Szczerbiak, Gerald Green and two first round picks, almost a month before the trade deadline, would you say that is the best deal possible and say no GM was willing to pay that extra buck to get talent on their team?</div>

It depends on what other teams offered. If other teams had offered only two second round picks, then this is the best deal possible at the moment. The Lakers should be rewarded for not having to take so long to stop being cheap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NattaNerNuttaMan @ Jun 5 2008, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I just think it's sad to think that McFail (ahem...McHale) was able to pull off a much, much better trade that Memphis. I'm not in anyway comparing KG and Gasol in trade value but to get back a potential All-Star (20-10 man Big Al) and Glue Guy (Gomes) a large expiring contract (Ratliff) a couple young guys (Green and Telfair) not to mention two 1st Round picks?!?!? Compared to Memphis, Minnesota looks like a genious

and it's hard to justify Critt as a good young talent when theier crowded in the backcourt...btw....did Critt spend most of the time in the DNBA?</div>

KG was just more attractive to other teams. LA was even drooling for him with Odom/Bynum offers, as was Phoenix.

 

I'll have more to say on the Gasol trade tomorrow, because I have a lot to say about it (I wasn't even around on s2 when it actually happened). It's just too late into the night for me to start typing a big post, so I'll hold off.

However, on Nutta's post, I have to agree that Minnesota didn't get such a raw deal for Garnett. Of course Garnett is one of the five or so most talented players in the NBA, but they did get pretty decent consolation prizes. They got a lot of great, young talent, draft picks, and expiring contracts. They may have been shorted as far as this season goes, but looking down the road, it may look like a good deal for Minny. Boston could win a title this season, but Minny wouldn't have won one even five or six seasons from now if they had kept Garnett. They needed a change and needed to go in a more youthful direction to bring such a radical change, and Jefferson turned out to be a decent gamble for that youthful future, not to mention the cap room, draft picks, and the other prospects they got out of it all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ Jun 5 2008, 04:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll have more to say on the Gasol trade tomorrow, because I have a lot to say about it (I wasn't even around on s2 when it actually happened). It's just too late into the night for me to start typing a big post, so I'll hold off.

However, on Nutta's post, I have to agree that Minnesota didn't get such a raw deal for Garnett. Of course Garnett is one of the five or so most talented players in the NBA, but they did get pretty decent consolation prizes. They got a lot of great, young talent, draft picks, and expiring contracts. They may have been shorted as far as this season goes, but looking down the road, it may look like a good deal for Minny. Boston could win a title this season, but Minny wouldn't have won one even five or six seasons from now if they had kept Garnett. They needed a change and needed to go in a more youthful direction to bring such a radical change, and Jefferson turned out to be a decent gamble for that youthful future, not to mention the cap room, draft picks, and the other prospects they got out of it all.</div>


Yeah...I feel that way now....but I won't lie, at the time I was kinda suspect. In hindsight though, it really worked out for Minnesota and I'm even happier for KG...he has a chance to finally get that ring that Wolves kept ****ing him out of. I'm a big Wolves fan...but I'll always be a KG fan.

Only real problem I see with the trade is that since it worked out so well, it probably saved McHale's job for a couple more years....ugh!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 5 2008, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If Kevin Garnett was traded for Wally Szczerbiak, Gerald Green and two first round picks, almost a month before the trade deadline, would you say that is the best deal possible and say no GM was willing to pay that extra buck to get talent on their team?</div>

It depends on what other teams offered. If other teams had offered only two second round picks, then this is the best deal possible at the moment. The Lakers should be rewarded for not having to take so long to stop being cheap.
</div>
I don't get why you keep saying cheap. How do you know it was that? You still haven't answered why they waited two years to trade him and then traded him one month before the deadline to a team in the same conference.

The only GM at blame here is the Grizzlies GM who felt the need to make a move when no move was needed.

Like I said, this qoute pretty much says it all and I'll end it with this.

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

He doesn't know yet he is running a profesional NBA franchise but all he can say is a whole lot of maybes? Gasol wasn't having a fit with the coach or whining at that current moment. The Grizzlies were in that big of a rush to dump his contract at the age of 27 yet not smart enough to dump Millers at it's highest point or Brians with Gasols or Millers?

I just don't see why you are arguing the point that it was a horrible trade and wasn't the best out there. If they had waited till closer to the deadline and made some calls, no doubt in my mind would they have gotten a better deal. Heck, they weren't in a rush to trade him all summer and they couldn't even wait five months till the draft came around and dealt him for a high pick like the Sonics did with an aging Ray Allen.

The blame here falls solely on management of the Grizzlies for turning the Lakers management into undercover super studs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 5 2008, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 5 2008, 04:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyways I'm done in here because nothing is getting through to you. They shipped Pau in the same conference they are in too adding onto the stupidity. The owner has admitted it wasn't the best deal and everyone since the trade has been laughing at what a moron Chris Wallace is.</div>

Well I understand your perspective actually, you simply fail to recognize that the GMs are to blame, not LA.

The owner did not even admit that. He said that a better deal might have been possible, not that a better deal was offered. It should not be taking GMs that long to make reasonable offers in the first place.</div>
LA's GM is no way to be blamed, he did a great job and did exactly what he is supposed to do. Getting an elite PF for cap space + low value picks is a steal.

You could say the other GMs shouldn't have taken that long, but under the same thinking, why did the Lakers take so long too? Why didn't the Lakers snatch him up for Kwame Brown + picks at the start of the season, I'm sure Kobe would have loved it. Under your perspective the Lakers GM is to be blamed as well. In reality we have no clue what information went to each GM, what was offered to who, what the Grizzlies GM was told.

I would place the blame on the Grizzlies GM, if you are badly low-balled, you wait it out for more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heuvon)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If Kevin Garnett was traded for Wally Szczerbiak, Gerald Green and two first round picks, almost a month before the trade deadline, would you say that is the best deal possible and say no GM was willing to pay that extra buck to get talent on their team?</div>

It depends on what other teams offered. If other teams had offered only two second round picks, then this is the best deal possible at the moment. The Lakers should be rewarded for not having to take so long to stop being cheap.
</div>

Lol, if you are saying the other teams were being cheap by offering less than Gasol's value, then the Lakers didn't stop being cheap, as their offer (which the Grizz's GM foolishly accepted) was also cheap and less than Gasol's true value.

If I needed to break a 50$ bill to use a change machine that accepts 20s, and 3 people offer me a $20 for it, and then Johnny offers me $25 for it. Johnny is still being cheap lol.

 

I think the biggest area of criticism is the fact that Grizzlies didn't seem to shop around the Lakers offer. I had suspected that with the sudden way the trade happened, and Heisley seemed to admit that in this interview. That's just terrible GM'ing. Say what you want about other GM's being too complacent (and it was true), but the threat of a tangible offer (especially to a conference or division rival) always creates a sense of urgency in people. Aside from the Bulls (who seemed set in their cheapness) the universal reaction to the trade among GM's seemed to be "I could have offered that." And it's true. Other teams may not have been able to offer that specific combination of picks, expiring contracts, and prospects, but they could have offered a package whose sum total would have been equal to or greater than LA's offer.

There's no denying that Wallace f'd up. There was no reason for him to accept such a terrible offer. All the conditions were right for him: Gasol hadn't explicitly wanted out, they didn't have a specific need (as they could've used more talent at all positions), and there was a trade market (as evidenced by the flurry of trades afterwards).

 

No amount of posts will convince me that everyone running the Grizzlies isn't an idiot and the Lakers didn't made a sham deal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 5 2008, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No amount of posts will convince me that everyone running the Grizzlies isn't an idiot and the Lakers didn't made a sham deal.</div>
Co-sign

I bet there waz some stuff going on behind the scenes when that trade happen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp)</div><div class='quotemain'>LA's GM is no way to be blamed, he did a great job and did exactly what he is supposed to do. Getting an elite PF for cap space + low value picks is a steal.</div>

Yep.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You could say the other GMs shouldn't have taken that long, but under the same thinking, why did the Lakers take so long too? Why didn't the Lakers snatch him up for Kwame Brown + picks at the start of the season, I'm sure Kobe would have loved it. Under your perspective the Lakers GM is to be blamed as well. In reality we have no clue what information went to each GM, what was offered to who, what the Grizzlies GM was told.</div>

No one has any clue that the offer on the table was inadequate compared to the market. The Lakers had made plenty of bad moves all throughout the years they struggled, it would not be ridiculous to assume that they had lacked competence until a certain point. Plenty of GMs contacted the Wolves during the off-season, way before the deadline. All those truly interested should not have been so careless to not ask around, especially if you're dealing with a "stupid Owner" as so many put it.. It is well known around the league that many of these GMs were fiscally conservative, seeing as Pau's contract the next few years can be costly. He gets 63 million over the next four years, making room for that is not easy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I would place the blame on the Grizzlies GM, if you are badly low-balled, you wait it out for more.</div>

They are desperate to make a deal. If they were to go this route, LA would be their best option.

Questioning whether or not they should have dealt Pau is another issue to me though. It has nothing to do with what the Lakers offered.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Lol, if you are saying the other teams were being cheap by offering less than Gasol's value, then the Lakers didn't stop being cheap, as their offer (which the Grizz's GM foolishly accepted) was also cheap and less than Gasol's true value.</div>

If the Lakers were cheap, then what does that make other teams? Their minor risk should still be rewarded.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If I needed to break a 50$ bill to use a change machine that accepts 20s, and 3 people offer me a $20 for it, and then Johnny offers me $25 for it. Johnny is still being cheap lol.</div>

This is not the same case.

Depreciation of stars occurs all the time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 5 2008, 04:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't get why you keep saying cheap. How do you know it was that? You still haven't answered why they waited two years to trade him and then traded him one month before the deadline to a team in the same conference.</div>

Yes I have. The Grizz over the off-season were thinking of a Horford-Gasol tandem for example. Then they continued to spiral down after their draft was not as successful, etc. That is why Hawksfan's trade was not valued so highly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The only GM at blame here is the Grizzlies GM who felt the need to make a move when no move was needed.</div>

GM's do not act passively if they want to secure their guy. Further you have no evidence that he wasn't shopped around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said, this qoute pretty much says it all and I'll end it with this.

“I don’t know if I got the most value,” Heisley confessed. “Maybe our people should’ve shopped (Gasol) more and maybe we would’ve gotten more, done a better deal. Maybe Chris did call every team in the league. I don’t think he did, but maybe he should’ve…”

He doesn't know yet he is running a profesional NBA franchise but all he can say is a whole lot of maybes? Gasol wasn't having a fit with the coach or whining at that current moment. The Grizzlies were in that big of a rush to dump his contract at the age of 27 yet not smart enough to dump Millers at it's highest point or Brians with Gasols or Millers?</div>

And yet he said this only after the Lakers made the Finals? The truth is that the Grizzlies gave other teams plenty of chances to offer something comparable. He is not even sure if his GM had indeed been ignorant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I just don't see why you are arguing the point that it was a horrible trade and wasn't the best out there. If they had waited till closer to the deadline and made some calls, no doubt in my mind would they have gotten a better deal. Heck, they weren't in a rush to trade him all summer and they couldn't even wait five months till the draft came around and dealt him for a high pick like the Sonics did with an aging Ray Allen.</div>

It is impossible for it to have been a horrible trade. Compared to what makes it horrible?

You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that is wasn't the best deal. I will outline this again to you, not every team even has the capability of offering a comparable deal to a 15.75 million a year player, or are even contenders. Your short sightedness makes you invent trades that did not exist.

The notion that GMs need five months is false. How did you come to this conclusion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The blame here falls solely on management of the Grizzlies for turning the Lakers management into undercover super studs.</div>

A GM must always be looking for the right move, or else give up your job. Out of the offers presented near the end of the trading line, LA won. Simple as that.

Had the market been more fair to the Grizzlies, Pau would not be a Laker right now. The Grizz need a young and cheap foundation to sell their team, they aren't going anywhere with Pau anytime soon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voodoo Child @ Jun 5 2008, 04:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll have more to say on the Gasol trade tomorrow, because I have a lot to say about it (I wasn't even around on s2 when it actually happened). It's just too late into the night for me to start typing a big post, so I'll hold off.

However, on Nutta's post, I have to agree that Minnesota didn't get such a raw deal for Garnett. Of course Garnett is one of the five or so most talented players in the NBA, but they did get pretty decent consolation prizes. They got a lot of great, young talent, draft picks, and expiring contracts. They may have been shorted as far as this season goes, but looking down the road, it may look like a good deal for Minny. Boston could win a title this season, but Minny wouldn't have won one even five or six seasons from now if they had kept Garnett. They needed a change and needed to go in a more youthful direction to bring such a radical change, and Jefferson turned out to be a decent gamble for that youthful future, not to mention the cap room, draft picks, and the other prospects they got out of it all.</div>

Five or six seasons from now, Memphis would not have won a title had they kept Pau. They needed to go in a more youthful direction.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 5 2008, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the biggest area of criticism is the fact that Grizzlies didn't seem to shop around the Lakers offer. I had suspected that with the sudden way the trade happened, and Heisley seemed to admit that in this interview. That's just terrible GM'ing. Say what you want about other GM's being too complacent (and it was true), but the threat of a tangible offer (especially to a conference or division rival) always creates a sense of urgency in people.</div>

But the statement that he wasn't being shopped around is not even validated at this moment. Complacency earns one nothing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Aside from the Bulls (who seemed set in their cheapness) the universal reaction to the trade among GM's seemed to be "I could have offered that." And it's true. Other teams may not have been able to offer that specific combination of picks, expiring contracts, and prospects, but they could have offered a package whose sum total would have been equal to or greater than LA's offer.</div>

No one can provide me a tangible evidence supporting this. I would say the league-wide reaction was "That was a ripoff and I'm jealous." Not necessarily that the person making that statement had personally offered something of higher value.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>There's no denying that Wallace f'd up. There was no reason for him to accept such a terrible offer. All the conditions were right for him: Gasol hadn't explicitly wanted out, they didn't have a specific need (as they could've used more talent at all positions), and there was a trade market (as evidenced by the flurry of trades afterwards).</div>

Phoenix was not even sure if they wanted to give away Marion until later on in February after observing the Lakers. Steve Kerr is their GM, I wouldn't exactly say he is a genius or a vet in this field.

The Mavericks acted more quickly, one can make a better case for them. Still they were probably too passive.

 

Huevon, no offense, but this is some of the worst homerism I've seen on these boards.

You keep saying this was the best offer on the table? Come on. This is $9M... NINE million in expiring contracts. This isn't a $15M contract or one of the ultra bloated nearly $20M contracts. This is a NINE million contract. HALF the teams in this league could have came up with expiring contracts worth more than $9M.

For some reason you keep wanting people to give you stories of offers for Pau. How many rumored trades actually go through? How many big trades are NOT mentioned at all and go through? This is a silly argument.

Just look at it from logical perspective. A team like NJ, which had big interest in Pau, could have offered $12M off the bat, and that included some nice players, not a washout like Kwame and Crit.

Miami was struggling. Do you think Riley would not have traded Ricky Davis and Jason Williams for Gasol?
If Riley called Wallace and said "Ok, if you were to trade Pau, what do you want? Expiring contracts? Well, I got more than $15M worth."

Heisley didn't say "we could have gotten more". He said "did he call all the teams? he may have, but I don't think he did". Most of the time, people wouldn't say this sort of thing because of political correctness. You don't want to trash talk about people in your organization. But in plain language, when Heisley let that slip he basically said "he's a fricking idiot who called 5 teams".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 5 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Huevon, no offense, but this is some of the worst homerism I've seen on these boards.</div>

I recognized quite early that the deal was not great.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You keep saying this was the best offer on the table? Come on. This is $9M... NINE million in expiring contracts. This isn't a $15M contract or one of the ultra bloated nearly $20M contracts. This is a NINE million contract. HALF the teams in this league could have came up with expiring contracts worth more than $9M.</div>

There you go inventing stuff again. It is obviously the best deal, it is not even debatable. Had it not been the Lakers would not have acquired him, others teams were being cheap, that is their problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For some reason you keep wanting people to give you stories of offers for Pau. How many rumored trades actually go through? How many big trades are NOT mentioned at all and go through? This is a silly argument.</div>

How many fake Kobe23 trades are never seriously considered? You have no case to make.

Look at it this way, if there had been a better deal, it would have been accepted. What Universe is arguing was that they should have waited a couple more weeks, because GMs are too stupid to offer something in 4 months. If you buy that...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Just look at it from logical perspective. A team like NJ, which had big interest in Pau, could have offered $12M off the bat, and that included some nice players, not a washout like Kwame and Crit.


Miami was struggling. Do you think Riley would not have traded Ricky Davis and Jason Williams for Gasol?
If Riley called Wallace and said "Ok, if you were to trade Pau, what do you want? Expiring contracts? Well, I got more than $15M worth."</div>

It is clear that these superior trades never happened. You can not make them up just because you're pissed or annoyed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Heisley didn't say "we could have gotten more". He said "did he call all the teams? he may have, but I don't think he did". Most of the time, people wouldn't say this sort of thing because of political correctness. You don't want to trash talk about people in your organization. But in plain language, when Heisley let that slip he basically said "he's a fricking idiot who called 5 teams".</div>

You do not know he only called five teams. If your team did not contact the Grizzlies you failed as an owner.

 

Dude, your main argument is that "if it didn't happen, it couldn't have thus the LA deal was the best one available". There is nothing anyone can tell you that wont make you "right" simply because coming up with proof would require us being someone in the Memphis organization.
Of course I'm "inventing" stuff. What do you want me to do? Go talk to Chris Wallace and have him write you a letter?

Logically, this deal fails. Even if by some magic we assume that no one offered something better for Gasol, Chris Wallace should have went on hoopshype and looked at the teams. He should have said "Ok, LA is offering us $9M contract with crap. I see that Miami had $15M in contracts, and I can probably get a much better pick out of them because they're gonna be in the lottery."

P.S. Universe is completely right. Memphis traded Pau on February 1st, that's almost THREE weeks before the trade deadline. Who in the hell trades their superstar that early? Especially for something that horrible.