<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Donaghy claims he was told that two refs who were “company men” acting in the interest of the NBA conspired to extend a playoff series in 2002 to a seventh game. The referees allegedly ignored flagrant fouls committed by the team that needed to win. They also reportedly called "made-up fouls" against the other team which led to the ejection of two of their players. The team favored by the refs won that night and the next game to win the series. The document does not name the teams. The Nets were in that playoff series, losing the championship finals to the Los Angeles Lakers.</div> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketba...istle_on_n.html
I'm sorry, but I don't believe hearsay from a guy like Tim Donaghy. He knows he's ****ed, and he's simply making shit up, trying to get himself out of trouble. Everybody knows that series was a little sketchy, but I don't buy this crap for a second.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ Jun 10 2008, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry, but I don't believe hearsay from a guy like Tim Donaghy. He knows he's ****ed, and he's simply making shit up, trying to get himself out of trouble. Everybody knows that series was a little sketchy, but I don't buy this crap for a second.</div> Everything he says seems pretty legit. Backing up the Van Gundy allegations. That is exactly what Stern wants. Stern will just say, "Why would anyone believe Tim Donaghy...he's a criminal!!!!".
The series versus Sacramento, and then next year (if I'm correct) the series versus Minnesota. To this day I remember the horrible call on Szczerbiak, while he was guarding Kobe, when he didn't even touch him, Kobe flopped and got the call. That was the worst call I've ever seen, when the defender is so far away, and doesn't even make contact.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ Jun 10 2008, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry, but I don't believe hearsay from a guy like Tim Donaghy. He knows he's ****ed, and he's simply making shit up, trying to get himself out of trouble. Everybody knows that series was a little sketchy, but I don't buy this crap for a second.</div> Can you seriously watch an NBA game, and not take these type of allegation seriously??? I can't it always seems that theres some shit going on.
What's the Yao thing that everyone's talking about? It's a shame that the NBA's headed down the NFL's path, with Donaghy playing the role of Matt Walsh. I don't know what to believe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 11 2008, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Phil Jackson totally ripped into this thread. "Was that game 6 after the 5th game that we had stolen from us?" Shaq got one free throw in that game IIRC. I think the Lakers got shafted in that game. More thoughts about the finals from other fans: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I plotted the data you posted in the other thread, 96 total games I believe. A +28 differential has only happened 3 times out of 96 Finals games in the last 17 years. There isn't anything between +23 (Bulls/Phoenix if I recall correctly) and the +28 and +30 Lakers/Pistons, Heat/Mavs games. Which is to say those games are way at the right hand tail of the distribution, several standard deviations removed from the average, and, totally suspicious. The average Finals differential since 91' is about +8, with a standard deviation of about +8. To get to +28 or +30 takes some serious work.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Lakers vs. Detriot: 11 free throws to 41 free throws. Game 4. 4th lowest in NBA history. (+30) Lakers vs. Boston: 10 free throws to 38 free throws. Game 2. 3rd lowest in NBA history. (+28) That's different than in 91' when the Bulls only got 8 free throws, or 93' when the Bulls only got 9 free throws. The discrepancy wasn't anywhere near +20.</div> </div>
Is this going to end up before congress like the MLB and NFL? Either way, David Stern is done as commissioner very soon. The game was clearly fixed. Now it came out that Ralph Nader was trying to take action against the NBA for fixing Game 6 of the 2002 WCF. Stern is in big trouble, Donaghy blew his whole little ploy.
I'm not one to believe in everything I hear, but I will say this A.) I remember watching that game with my father, and both of us saying "this looks rigged" B.) It was BY FAR the worst officiated game ever....which is why I laughed at Phil Jackson the other night claiming game 2 in boston was the worst he's ever seen, lol..............All that meditating must be clogging up dudes memory C.) By blowing off all of Donaghy's accusations you're basically saying "he was the only person in on this", and I just have a hard time believing that.... D.) Like one poster stated earlier Stern will try to blow this off with "Donaghy is a criminal don't believe him".....fortunately I'm not that naive to believe Stern so quickly. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Heat got to keep their cheap ring. Meh, whatever</div> lol, come on now some laker fans call out everyone else when the officiating's bad, but fail to see that the refs in game 6 were probably worse than all the other games you'll bring up. I've seen plenty of times where a guy gets to the line 20 + times in a game, but I've never seen one team be favored in "one quarter" of basketball so much....27 FTs?????......................I repeat 27 FTs in ONE quarter???, lol............at least with an "entire game" you can say one team was more aggressive than the other, but this game was so bad that you had people wanting to investigate it the very next day......I wouldn't doubt that the game was indeed rigged.
^ Whats worst is that that wasn't the only series. Next year I remember pretty darn well, versus Minnesota, it was the same thing. The Lakers were helped by the refs again. So I think its fair to say that the Los Angeles Lakers were the most benefited team in the league by all these refs that got paid to change the outcome of the games. (they got rings to show it) I say put an asterisks on their 2002 championship (and any other one that is found to be rigged), just like people want to put an * on Barry Bonds' career.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'>So I think its fair to say that the Los Angeles Lakers were the most benefited team in the league by all these refs that got paid to change the outcome of the games. (they got rings to show it)</div> Not it isn't. Not yet. What we have right now is speculation about one incident. It may or may not be true, we'll have to just wait for more information to verify it. Until then, there's no point in turning this another Spygate. As a Pats fan, I figured you'd be the last person to start making unwarranted, black-and-white generalizations.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 11 2008, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'>So I think its fair to say that the Los Angeles Lakers were the most benefited team in the league by all these refs that got paid to change the outcome of the games. (they got rings to show it)</div> Not it isn't. Not yet. What we have right now is speculation about one incident. It may or may not be true, we'll have to just wait for more information to verify it. Until then, there's no point in turning this another Spygate. As a Pats fan, I figured you'd be the last person to start making unwarranted, black-and-white generalizations. </div> I'm not doing that Chutney, and I'm not even believing or reading what that dumb@ss Donaghy is saying, because of course he's going to lie, etc, but at the very least he knows something. All I'm saying is from watching those series in the past, especially the run the Lakers had (the 3 peat), and the Kings being the best team at that point, and then next year the Wolves getting calls without even touching Kobe, I mean common Chutney, its not something that someone has to point to us and say here, thats where the ref screwed up, its something each fan saw, except the Laker fans who denied anything, and yet here they were, game 2, accusing the refs of stealing a game.
does anyone remember kobe running through mike bibby, elbowing him, making him bleed..............and then Bibby being called for the foul????, lol................
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jun 11 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not doing that Chutney, and I'm not even believing or reading what that dumb@ss Donaghy is saying, because of course he's going to lie, etc, but at the very least he knows something. All I'm saying is from watching those series in the past, especially the run the Lakers had (the 3 peat), and the Kings being the best team at that point, and then next year the Wolves getting calls without even touching Kobe, I mean common Chutney, its not something that someone has to point to us and say here, thats where the ref screwed up, its something each fan saw, except the Laker fans who denied anything, and yet here they were, game 2, accusing the refs of stealing a game.</div> I saw those games and I know where you're coming from. The only reason I'm not willing to go as far as you though, is because of the reality of NBA officiating. I can't remember who it was, but after last year's Donaghy fiasco somebody was quoted as saying that it'd be impossible to tell if/when an official was actually fixing games because of the nature of the game. It's so true when you think about it. More than any other sport, basketball requires so much subjective interpretation and judgment on the part of the referee. It's damn near impossible to pick out when a game is being deliberately manipulated from when its just being officiated poorly. The NBA's officiating is so terrible and inconsistent already, that I could probably go back over the past 5 years and find a handful of games that are close to as badly officiated as the Kings-Lakers one was. And that's basically why I think people should be careful about how much they speculate until more information comes out. I'm looking for some substantial proof (eg: testimony, confessions, etc.) before I make any more assumptions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It's damn near impossible to pick out when a game is being deliberately manipulated from when its just being officiated poorly</div> I see what you're trying to say, but watching that game I thought it was more to it, then just "human error".....I mean if one game were to be rigged, most fans would pick game 6 of the 2002 WCF....... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The NBA's officiating is so terrible and inconsistent already, that I could probably go back over the past 5 years and find a handful of games that are close to as badly officiated as the Kings-Lakers one was.</div> I've been a heavy follower of the NBA since the early 90's and while I've seen bad calls, poorly officiated games, etc. none of them stand out to me as much as Game 6 in that series. I've never seen a game that late in the playoffs, be decided by putting one team on the line 27 times in one quarter of basketball................I'm hoping it's "human error" also, but I have a hard time believing it when it comes to that game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jun 11 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw those games and I know where you're coming from. The only reason I'm not willing to go as far as you though, is because of the reality of NBA officiating. I can't remember who it was, but after last year's Donaghy fiasco somebody was quoted as saying that it'd be impossible to tell if/when an official was actually fixing games because of the nature of the game. It's so true when you think about it. More than any other sport, basketball requires so much subjective interpretation and judgment on the part of the referee. It's damn near impossible to pick out when a game is being deliberately manipulated from when its just being officiated poorly. The NBA's officiating is so terrible and inconsistent already, that I could probably go back over the past 5 years and find a handful of games that are close to as badly officiated as the Kings-Lakers one was. And that's basically why I think people should be careful about how much they speculate until more information comes out. I'm looking for some substantial proof (eg: testimony, confessions, etc.) before I make any more assumptions.</div> I see what you're saying Chutney.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dream)</div><div class='quotemain'>I've been a heavy follower of the NBA since the early 90's and while I've seen bad calls, poorly officiated games, etc. none of them stand out to me as much as Game 6 in that series. I've never seen a game that late in the playoffs, be decided by putting one team on the line 27 times in one quarter of basketball................I'm hoping it's "human error" also, but I have a hard time believing it when it comes to that game.</div> That specific game was probably the worst out of all of them, but then again where do you draw the line? How bad does the officiating have to be for us to be able to definitively claim that its being rigged? What do you look for? Its just really hard to come up with a consistent answer to those questions. I'm not taking a stance either way, I just think we need to be careful about how absolute we make our statements at this point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>That specific game was probably the worst out of all of them, but then again where do you draw the line? How bad does the officiating have to be for us to be able to definitively claim that its being rigged? What do you look for? Its just really hard to come up with a consistent answer to those questions. I'm not taking a stance either way, I just think we need to be careful about how absolute we make our statements at this point.</div> I'm not saying that the game was "absolutely" rigged, but if there were one game that one would be at the top of my list, lol. As bad as the refs were in that rockets/mavs series in game 5, it was "nothing" compared to game 6 in 2002.....and this is coming from a diehard rockets fan.
