I dont believe in abortion even after a rape, but I can understand the point of those that do....My heart goes out to any woman dealing with that kind of trauma....I cant understand why people are all for "abortion on demand" though
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 14 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It would depend on the status of my mother. If she was some hick who's life had been ruined because she had no support from the father, and lost her childhood, and I could go back in time, I'd consider. Killing the child when she's grown and interacted with her is completely different than killing a fetus. It would hurt her emotionally more than it would help.</div> Wouldn't she be able to get some money suppourt, through the rape issue.
I agree with abortion being murder. Obama talked about this in the Constitution section of his book, with filibusters and the suicide option; and how the Republicans don't want to compromise on abortion so they can keep using it as a campaign issue. I think rape victims should be allowed to use emergency contraception pills, but that's it. That gives them a 2-3 day period to eliminate the baby.
I think you really learn about your true position on abortion when the last thing on Earth you want is to have a kid and your girlfriend is like 2 weeks late for her period... That happened to me a few years back and I had to reconsider some of my thoughts on abortion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne @ Jun 14 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with abortion being murder. Obama talked about this in the Constitution section of his book, with filibusters and the suicide option; and how the Republicans don't want to compromise on abortion so they can keep using it as a campaign issue. I think rape victims should be allowed to use emergency contraception pills, but that's it. That gives them a 2-3 day period to eliminate the baby.</div> I have to disagree with that on the basis that's a pretty broad statement. Of course, maybe I'm just saying that because that just about every prominent Republican in my state is pro-choice, but I digress.
I think it's pretty grim that anyone would think that they can make these decisions for someone else; I'm pro-choice all the way. Plus there are reasons why these parents don't want kids (under numerous categories). Someone who is so concerned about the well being of these kids could acknowledge the poor conditions that they would be in an unwanted family (plus the strain on the parents). But more importantly we're talking about an undeveloped fetus here.
I've read some of the most ignorant comments in this thread. You guys would have no idea what its like to not only be raped, but be in an abusive relationship. Oh wait, I've been there! Imagine getting pregnant by a guy that treats you terribly and you'd have to see him for the rest of your live because of that child. Its a womans body & her choice. You guys would have no idea what its like, so stop the bullshit on how abortion is murder. Also something else to consider - Do you know how many people we'd have in todays society if no one were to have abortions? Every single city would be like China and we'd have higher crime rates, gas prices, etc. Not to mention the food shortages and greenhouse gas emissions b/c of it. So I realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however you guys need to look at the bigger picture and realize that abortion will never go away. They can ban it all they want, but people are still going to do it - and if they don't have the access they will get desperate and use coat hangers. I do however agree in that fact that if an abortion is going to be done, it needs to be taken care of early. (They begin to perform around 8 weeks) Also, abortions should in no way be a form of birth control. . if you were dumb enough to get knocked up the first time and can't take care of the child - get on birth control.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ Jun 14 2008, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Abortion is mess up. That baby can be the next Michael Jordan for all we know.</div> This discussion is over people, we've got the winner right here.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's pretty grim that anyone would think that they can make these decisions for someone else</div> Abortion takes away a babies right to live....thats worse in my opinion than infringing on a womans right to murder....did you guys know that a womans right to an abortion is based on the 4th amendment to the Constitution....want to see it? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." From that, the Supreme Court ruled that a woman has rights to privacy, and what she does in privacy, including murdering a baby, is fine....there hasnt been a dumber ruling than that from the high court since they ruled to uphold laws that black people were less than a full person....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jun 14 2008, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainEvent @ Jun 14 2008, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All I'm hoping is that Obama will lax the marijuana laws... </div> the President cant make or repeal current laws....his only way of doing that would be to campain for congress to do it or appoint radical judges that would somehow find that anti-pot legislation is unconstituional..... </div> Actually, the president and Dept. of Justice CAN selectively enforce provisions of the Laws. It's called "promulgation." An example would be that Bush I promulgated a provision in Title X that prohibits US govt. funded family planning clinics, world-wide, from discussing abortion; Clinton did the reverse via promulgation, allowing abortion to be discussed. Famously called the "gag rule" or "global gag rule." Another case would be states voting via referendum or legislation to allow medical use of marijuana. Federal Law trumps state law and it is against Federal Law. The feds promised to go after the states that allowed it, but in actuality, I'm not so sure they're wholeheartedly caring about it one way or another. Promulgation. As for abortion itself, it clearly is murder. I do not think it is a religious argument to understand that life does begin at conception - from the first cell, the DNA describes and defines a unique individual. That said, it becomes a civil and property rights issue. Both the fetus and the woman have a claim to the woman's body. In no way do I see it that the woman does not have the right to her own body. The fetus' right to life cannot trump the woman's right to her own body, period. The fetus can only come to full term with consent of the woman. Exactly "when" consent is given is up for debate, IMO, though I am satisfied that 3 months is sufficient for the woman to find out she's pregnant and come to terms with her ultimate decision. Those on the left favor abortion but don't favor the death penalty. Those on the right favor the death penalty but not abortion. Neither side is consistent in their reasoning! The bottom line is that the state and individuals DO have a right to take another life - police can shoot a criminal under certain circumstances, soldiers can kill enemy soldiers (and accidentally civilians), and the executioner can execute convicted persons. And abortion. What the constitution does say is that no person may be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process. Due process is given to those who are executed. It is also given to the fetus through Roe and other privacy cases. While I am not inconsistent - I favor the death penalty and abortion, I do not want to see them used very often. I cannot imagine any woman having an abortion and not being affected by the guilt and the ordeal for the rest of her life.
I actually oppose the death penalty and abortion, so Im consistent in those areas, but i do support a law enforcement officers right to use appropriate force to protect himself or other citizens....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jun 14 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's pretty grim that anyone would think that they can make these decisions for someone else</div> Abortion takes away a babies right to live....thats worse in my opinion than infringing on a womans right to murder....did you guys know that a womans right to an abortion is based on the 4th amendment to the Constitution....want to see it? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." From that, the Supreme Court ruled that a woman has rights to privacy, and what she does in privacy, including murdering a baby, is fine....there hasnt been a dumber ruling than that from the high court since they ruled to uphold laws that black people were less than a full person.... </div> It's not a baby, it's a mass of organic tissue that has yet to develop into a human. By that note, "muder" is a bit much. "A right to murder" is just sensationalism.
I have no problem with people deciding that they wouldn't want to have an abortion, but I will never support any attempts to take away the choice for each individual to make.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lce)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also something else to consider - Do you know how many people we'd have in todays society if no one were to have abortions? Every single city would be like China and we'd have higher crime rates, gas prices, etc. Not to mention the food shortages and greenhouse gas emissions b/c of it.</div> There was a study that came out about 10 years ago by a few professors that stated that abortion accounted for as much as 50 percent in the drop of the crime rate. It was called "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime." It can be downloaded here. It's really no different from o.iatlhawksfan from saying that the next Michael Jordan could have been killed in the past 35 years before birth, but it is an interesting thing to say.
^^^ One of the lamest arguments for abortion rights I've ever heard. (GMJigga's mass of cells argument) Work your way backward. 1 second before a baby is born, is it a baby? Obviously. A week before? Certainly. Keep going and you realize it's always a baby from conception.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jun 14 2008, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's pretty grim that anyone would think that they can make these decisions for someone else</div> Abortion takes away a babies right to live....thats worse in my opinion than infringing on a womans right to murder....did you guys know that a womans right to an abortion is based on the 4th amendment to the Constitution....want to see it? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." From that, the Supreme Court ruled that a woman has rights to privacy, and what she does in privacy, including murdering a baby, is fine....there hasnt been a dumber ruling than that from the high court since they ruled to uphold laws that black people were less than a full person.... </div> It's not a baby, it's a mass of organic tissue that has yet to develop into a human. By that note, "muder" is a bit much. "A right to murder" is just sensationalism. </div> I prefer the term sustainable life. It is an unfortunate reality that there are deaths in NICUs just as there are amazing success stories.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 14 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^^ One of the lamest arguments for abortion rights I've ever heard. (GMJigga's mass of cells argument) Work your way backward. 1 second before a baby is born, is it a baby? Obviously. A week before? Certainly. Keep going and you realize it's always a baby from conception.</div> Denny you do realize that a baby becomes a baby over time, and that growth in the womb isn't instantaneous. That is not a baby. It will eventually gain human form, and develop cognitive thought. Untill then its fair game. You were on to something good, but didn't think it through.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 14 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^^ One of the lamest arguments for abortion rights I've ever heard. (GMJigga's mass of cells argument) Work your way backward. 1 second before a baby is born, is it a baby? Obviously. A week before? Certainly. Keep going and you realize it's always a baby from conception.</div> How can it be a baby when even current medical advances can't sustain its life outside the womb?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jun 14 2008, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's not a baby, it's a mass of organic tissue that has yet to develop into a human. By that note, "muder" is a bit much. "A right to murder" is just sensationalism.</div> i might have bought that if I had never been in a room with a sonogram tech and heard my 1st daughters heart beating....she was my daughter from that moment forward no matter what else happened....I also think if they made a woman get the sonogram before the abortion, the rate of abortion would drop to almost nothing, because they do think of it as if its not alive....
