<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 19 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 19 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love everything RJ has done for us but Thorn pulling another one of his heists in dealing him is gonna be really really tricky.</div> You might be right, but it also might be easier than you think. He had the tenth highest scoring average in the league! He's a winner! He's in the prime of his career! I think he would be a great acquisition for a team either looking for the last missing piece, or (more importantly) a team trying to create the illusion for its fan base that they are going all-out and trying to contend, when they are really just trying to save money and get more fans to buy season ticket plans. I mean, teams have different priorities. To change sports, why did the Pirates sign Matt Morris? To convince people that they are at least "trying." If the Clippers lose Brand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they became immediately interested in RJ--they could say that they were replacing Brand with a top-ten scorer, and we could probably figure out a way that they could save money to boot. Maybe Tim Thomas and Mobley, or maybe they S&T Brand. Of course they would toss in the rights to the #7 pick--that is a $2 million savings right there. Maybe they also take back Marcus. Anyway. I'm just making stuff up on the fly. My point is just that some organizations may want RJ for other reasons, such as to look good whether or not they are actually improving. RJ would be a great public relations coup--it's not often that a team can acquire a 20 point scorer that is not a locker-room headache. You got to recognize that the nets are not going to contend next year. There is too much uncertainty, too many changes on the horizon. And I'm not just talking about the draft. You're going to have an entire new coaching staff; you may have no returning center. There will have to be a couple of free-agency signings, and we know how that has worked out in the past. Right now, this team is Devin Harris, Vince Carter, Josh Boone, and fill in the blanks. 20% of the salary is tied up in Stromile Swift and Trent hassell, who I think are untradable and useless. </div>Heh. My dream scenario is "On June 25, Elton Brand has informed the Clippers that he will take advantage of the opt-out clause in his contract." "On June 26th, Elgin Baylor has 'regretfully' traded Elton Brand, Cuttino Mobley and #7 pick for Richard Jeffersin, Keith Van Horn, Stromile Swift, Trenton Hassell and #10 and #21 picks"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 19 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Heh. My dream scenario is "On June 25, Elton Brand has informed the Clippers that he will take advantage of the opt-out clause in his contract." "On June 26th, Elgin Baylor has 'regretfully' traded Elton Brand, Cuttino Mobley and #7 pick for Richard Jeffersin, Keith Van Horn, Stromile Swift, Trenton Hassell and #10 and #21 picks"</div> Some combination where the Nets get Brand, give up RJ, and keep at least once lottery pick would be pretty good. Two fascinating subplots for me over the next week will be to see what Seattle and Portland do. Between them, they have TEN picks in the draft--and they both pretty much have full rosters of guarranteed contracts. What those two teams decide to do will reverberate throughout the rest of the draft--and will be the impetus for a number of trades, I think.
There are certain realities out there, I think: 1. Thorn ALWAYS tries to move up in the first round and sometimes in the second. He tried to trade #22 and #23 (plus someone unnamed) to the Sonics for the #10 in 2006 so they could pick Hilton Armstrong. They tried to trade up to get Sean May who they desperately wanted in 2005. In the second round that year, they tried to trade up mid-draft to get Monta Ellis. All of that has been documented. 2. The Nets are in love with Love. There has been no dimunition of that love even when he spurned them. They want him. D'Alessandro hinted about that the other day. Ford hinted at it more vaguely today. 3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality. 4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper. All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts. Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 19 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://sportstwo.com/NBA/LeagueSalaries LeBron has a player option the same year.</div> Forget that. LeBron is a free agent in the summer of 2010. RJ needs to be gone by then. </div> That was for Hassell.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts. Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?</div> I don't know about that. Brewer was a top 10 pick last year and looks like he could end up being pretty good. I also think his game is more suited to a starting role similar to Prince. He doesn't have the quick offense capability to excell off the bench. So they would be adding Jefferson who plays the same position and then drafting another 3 in Gallinari?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryan @ Jun 19 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts. Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?</div> I don't know about that. Brewer was a top 10 pick last year and looks like he could end up being pretty good. I also think his game is more suited to a starting role similar to Prince. He doesn't have the quick offense capability to excell off the bench. So they would be adding Jefferson who plays the same position and then drafting another 3 in Gallinari? </div> memphis has gay too, and la has thornton. Unless we're getting either back, or they plan on playing them at the 4, that probably wouldn't work.
I hate it when people do this, but I just love you too much to resist so forgive me: comments incorporated in bold. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There are certain realities out there, I think: 1. Thorn ALWAYS tries to move up in the first round and sometimes in the second. well, not always. I remember one draft where he moved down. He tried to trade #22 and #23 (plus someone unnamed) to the Sonics for the #10 in 2006 so they could pick Hilton Armstrong. They tried to trade up to get Sean May who they desperately wanted in 2005. In the second round that year, they tried to trade up mid-draft to get Monta Ellis. All of that has been documented. Perhaps we should read this as more evidence that Thorn has no clue what he is doing when it comes to evaluating talent, especially bigs. I am still VERY interested in learning who is calling the shots at the draft this year: Thorn, or Kiki? 2. The Nets are in love with Love. There has been no dimunition of that love even when he spurned them. They want him. D'Alessandro hinted about that the other day. Ford hinted at it more vaguely today. In light of the above, I'm a little afraid. 3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality. To be honest, I don't know what "equal value" is in this case. How much does RJ really contribute? How much better is he than someone like Martell Webster? He can't carry the team by himself, and doesn't dominate the fast break like he used to. It's become generally accepted that RJ played pitiful defense last year. Why? Is this the best chance to get ANYTHING of value for him in a deal, when at least he looks like a scorer? 4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper. It's possible, but I prefer to think of it as realising what we've been discussing all year: it makes no sense to fill out the roster with middling veterans (who are replaced after one season, a never-ending revolving door of ineptitude), and that the league is full of young kids who went undrafted or were released by their first team, but have become productive--but the Nets have never bothered to look for them. There are a lot of teams that are both successful and NOT cheap that prefer this sort of player. I want the Nets to be one of them. Really, who wanted to root for Scott Padgett? All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts. Minnesota claims that it has no interest in veterans. I think the Clippers would work as I mentioned before, because of the "illusion" that they will be trying to win. I don't think anyone has any idea what Memphis is thinking. Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari? that's an interesting thought.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 19 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift is not untradeable. That's absurd. If Chad Ford is writing that RJ sucks so much that it takes a lottery pick to move him, then it's true.</div> Or he has a hard on for the Pistons and thinks that Rasheed actually has significant value.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 19 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality. To be honest, I don't know what "equal value" is in this case. How much does RJ really contribute? How much better is he than someone like Martell Webster? He can't carry the team by himself, and doesn't dominate the fast break like he used to. It's become generally accepted that RJ played pitiful defense last year. Why? Is this the best chance to get ANYTHING of value for him in a deal, when at least he looks like a scorer? 4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper. It's possible, but I prefer to think of it as realising what we've been discussing all year: it makes no sense to fill out the roster with middling veterans (who are replaced after one season, a never-ending revolving door of ineptitude), and that the league is full of young kids who went undrafted or were released by their first team, but have become productive--but the Nets have never bothered to look for them. There are a lot of teams that are both successful and NOT cheap that prefer this sort of player. I want the Nets to be one of them. Really, who wanted to root for Scott Padgett?</div> That's what I was thinking, with the RJ bit. I mean, what the hell is RJ's value? Sure, he scores alot. But it seems he's lost every facet of his game that made him good. To the point where, anything involving an expiring contract and a young player (involved in the trade, or through FA signing[JH]) would be better than having RJ. Because his game hurts the team that much. Also, with #4, I like that idea. I hope that's the FO mindset from now on, it makes this team much easier to root for.
I still think we are trading to Portland for expiring. Channing Frye Sergio Rodriguez Raef LaFrentz Martell Webster 13th pick for Richard Jefferson Trenton Hassell Marcus Williams
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 19 2008, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I still think we are trading to Portland for expiring. Channing Frye Sergio Rodriguez Raef LaFrentz Martell Webster 13th pick for Richard Jefferson Trenton Hassell Marcus Williams</div> I doubt they'll wanna give up Channing Frye. Even if they didn't, I'd love that trade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 19 2008, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, with #4, I like that idea. I hope that's the FO mindset from now on, it makes this team much easier to root for.</div> yeah, you don't want a roster full of those guys, but two or three wouldn't hurt--you keep them around for a year or two and you see what happens.
Of course, if the Nets trade RJ for Love and expiring contracts, the IZOD Center will be empty. I completely agree with Dumpy on his long held belief that we should stop spending money on retreads. Giving Magloire $4 million prevented the Nets from going after Posey. No one else would give guaranteed deals to Armstrong or Allen. I doubt either will be in the league next year. The 2005-06 bench included guys who never played again or barely played: Murray, Padgett, McInnis. Not to mention the two guys they (luckily) dumped for Nachbar: Jackson and Johnson. And they have been willing to sign players to deals with buyouts that complicate their salary cap: The Nets had to pay $500,000 to Cliff Robinson last season, the cost of his buyout. They had to pay $400,000 to Padgett, the cost of his buyout. Enough. Give me someone with the POSSIBILITY of improvement.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 19 2008, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I still think we are trading to Portland for expiring. Channing Frye Sergio Rodriguez Raef LaFrentz Martell Webster 13th pick for Richard Jefferson Trenton Hassell Marcus Williams</div> I doubt the deal would be that good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 19 2008, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Channing Frye Jarret Jack Raef LaFrentz Josh McRoberts 13th pick for Richard Jefferson Trenton Hassell 21st pick</div> I think it would look more like this. Doubt they want Marcus and assuredly they'll want a pick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 19 2008, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Jun 19 2008, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Channing Frye Jarret Jack Raef LaFrentz Josh McRoberts 13th pick for Richard Jefferson Trenton Hassell 21st pick</div> I think it would look more like this. Doubt they want Marcus and assuredly they'll want a pick. </div> we'd probably need martell or outlaw back.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 19 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>we'd probably need martell or outlaw back.</div> I'm not super crazy about either of those guys but Portland loves Outlaw and he's not just gonna be a throw in to a deal like a guy like Frye would. Webster is the more expendable out of the two most definitely with Fernandez coming on for them.
Ray Allen, who is 32 years old goes for the 5th overall pick and Delonte West. Richard Jefferson is no Ray Allen but he's putting up big scoring numbers and is only 27 years old. I wish we could get something along those lines at least.
Lets look at it this way. Is there a significant chance that either Outlaw or Webster turns into a legitimate starter? Maybe Outlaw. The pick we get isn't going to be ultra helpful either, unless it's to package all of our picks and get a top 5 pick. This is nothing more than a salary dump. We dump ~$18.5M on their heads for the 09/10 season, while we only have to deal with Outlaw's $4M salary in 09/10. Basically, we save around $15M for the 09/10 season. P.S. Has anyone checked out the Portland Trailblazers website recently? It's sick! http://www.nba.com/blazers/team/
