Not everyone likes the Nets moves

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The media and the casual fan thinks Milwaukee "fleeced" the Nets, but people who had to endure watching RJ play every minute of last season are wondering how the Nets got a #6 overall pick and the requisite cap relief they sought for him. His attitude was hurting the team and it was time for him to move on.</div>

I couldn't agree more. I know most net fans loved RJ, But he simply isn't as good as his paycheck, or the hype. He is a scoring 3 who isn't great at getting his own shot, and has an inconsistent jumper and isn't great from 3. His defense, while it may have been among the best we had, is vastly overrated.

I scratch my head at those who not only think we got fleeced, but who don't see how this is a great move for us. There are just so many positives about this deal:

RJ and VC were too Redundant - you cant have two 20+ point wing scorers, when neither of them shooter well/consistent from the perimeter(VC's 3 point shooting has tailed off). It hurt our offense. <u>You cant send a lineup on the floor when you dont have a good/consistent shooter at the 2, 3 or 4 position</u>. This move(along with the Anderson pick) give the nets Shooters. Is Yi better then RJ? no. Is Simmons better then RJ? no. But these new guys are all BETTER FITS, and make the nets a more balanced team offensively, and much tougher to guard.

RJ wasnt going to be worth his pricetag. You cant pay a Guy 14 million per over 3 years unless he is a difference maker. RJ is a very good player, borderline all-star. but he just isn't a difference maker. on top of that, he doesnt bring a specific talent that another team needs to account for. He isnt a post threat. He isnt a threat to beat you from the outside, and while he is a good defender, he isnt exactly a stopper. I think if you are gonna pay someone 14-16 million a year, they need to be a force somewhere, and not just a solid all around player. Yi makes less, has a ton of upside, and even if he never becomes a star, will always give you size and outside shooting.

As far as Brook Lopez and CDR go... I dont see how anyone can not like those selections. I can see why some would want Bayless over Brook.... but Brook is still a good fit. It also adds towards what i was saying about having a balanced team. Brook Gives us post scoring, something we had none of. And CDR, incomplete player or not, can score... and a bench scorer is something we havent had in a long time. Maybe he is undersized or cant guard anyone... but playing 12-15 minutes off the bench, if he can put the ball in the hole he will be a big help to the team.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?

The lack of defense is an issue. Also, FYI, so is Yi's age. His passport says he is 20 but logic dictates he is more likely 23. Chinese have a verified history of faking kids ages so they can win international youth competitions. To accept that Yi is only 20 means you also have to accept that he was the Chinese Basketball Association ROY at age 15.</div>

Well, the way i see it, we weren't a good defensive team last season WITH Jefferson last season allowing over 100 points per game. I'm not high on Simmons(not even counting his contract), but he shouldn't be a HUGE downgrade defensively from RJ, if healthy.

Maybe we didn't get better defensively, But that isn't always something that can be a quick fix. Last year we were a horrible shooting team(5th worst in the NBA). Getting guys who can shoot the ball, I feel, is something that can be addressed much easier. Yi and Anderson can both shoot the ball... and with this new team, we will never see a lineup where you will have guys at the 2,3, and 4 who all are non-threats from the perimeter. Next year we will be much tougher to guard.

The way I see it, we weren't great defensively last year. That didn't change much... I can't see us being much worse defensively. On the flip side i think we will be a better offensive team, a deeper team, and a team that can beat you in more ways.

Also, I like our "quantity" of potential. I mean what are the odds that Yi, Brook, Anderson, Swat, or boone all fail to become good players?

 

I've been in high support of the RJ trade, and really can't understand the critics. Do you just want to see the Nets win games, or do you want to see the Nets win championships? Look at the Celtics! Over the last 3 years, the Nets have 124 wins, the Celtics have 123. And every NBA fan outside of San Antonio and possibly Miami would gladly trade their team's last 3 seasons for the Celtics last 3 seasons. Like someone else mentioned - you need top 10 players to win championships. And RJ's contract being on the books for $15M in 2010 prevents us from acquiring any of those players.

I really can't comment on the draft picks because I don't watch much college bball.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AGGiE @ Jun 29 2008, 04:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=428492

Draft Grades: D

New Jersey Nets. Is it a requirement for the Nets to have twins on their team? After finally moving the limited Jason Collins they draft Stanford twin Brook Lopez. After trading away Richard Jefferson, that's not good news. They're giving up for now with Lopez and Ryan Anderson, taken later in the first, and Yi Jianlian, acquired in the Jefferson trade. So much for the Nenad Krstic era. The contest becomes them against the Knicks to build the team that most will appeal to LeBron James in the summer of 2010. You had to laugh at "analyst" Mark Jackson, who happens to work for the Nets, applauding their draft. What a mess they've become.

-Sam Smith</div>

But, ya see, nothing Sam Smith says matters. In fact, you should prolly make the font size of the words "Sam Smith" to 7. He knows nothing about the Nets. Nothing about our needs. Nothing about what the FO is thinking. Nothing about RJ, how he played, how Yi plays. He knows nothing about the players from the draft, either. Whether or not these players become successful with the Nets, Sam Smith's opinion never mattered.

 

Sam Smith is a moron and it has nothing to do with that article. Most Bulls fans think he is a hack too. He's one of the last NBA writers I would take seriously.

 

The only one of the four moves (3 picks + trade) that doesn't thrill me is the Lopez drafting, but I readily concede that it was the easiest, safest, and most sensible move that the Nets could have made at 10. Too many people who watch college ball closely had Lopez pegged in the 3-5 region for a team in desperate need of big-man, inside scoring to pass him up. I don't think I've read a knowledgeable pundit yet predict that Lopez would be anything less than a serviceable center at the NBA level, so there is very little risk to the pick, as I see it. No he will never be an all star, but if he can make a competent individual move in the post 3-4 times a night when the Nets are stuck on the perimeter and their shots aren't falling, he will be worth a #10 easily.

I REALLY like what I've seen of Yi in clips, starting with the fact that he is incredibly quick and athletic for a guy 7' tall. Add that to the fact that he is said to be automatic from 18-20 feet, and this guy will thrive playing with Carter and Harris in pick and rolls/pops.

CDR at 40 is a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. And I will still feel that way in the unlikely event that he is a total bust since that's what you expect to draft at 40 anyway. I predict he will be a rotation player next year.

Of all the new acquisitions, however, the one I feel most optimistic about is Anderson. Time will tell, but I really believe that by the end of the season, he will end up playing the same minutes and roll as Boki but will be much more productive on both ends. And I could see Anderson and Sean both sharing floor time with one of the other bigs with Sean playing the 3 defensively and Anderson the 4 while reversing roles on the other end. Having a guy like Anderson, with his combination of size, rebounding, inside defensive toughness, and shooting range could actually help Sean stay on the court longer because he won't have to guard guys in the paint that are much longer and outweigh him by 30 pounds.

 

Feel like I've entered bizarro world. NI dissing the franchise for picking best players available and getting a marketing machine for RJ and everyone else defending management

 

I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jun 29 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.</div>

I thought I was the only Lopez hater.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jun 29 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.</div>

i dont think he dropped so much as the right team wasnt there to draft him.

He was basically going to Memphis at 5 or slipping to us at 10. The top 3 in the draft were set. Rose/beasley/mayo were the guys there. At 4 the sonics wanted a gaurd. at 5 it was between brook and love. at 6 knicks didnt need a PF/C. at 7 the clips needed a guard, at 8 the bucks didnt need a bigman and loved alexander. at 9 charlotte was looking for a point gaurd.

So basically Love or Brook was going to slip from 5 to 10. there was basically 1 spot Brook could have been picked at before 10, and they preferred love. It isnt like 3 or 4 teams took another front court player in front of brook. the teams ahead of us just needed guards or were set at C.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JerseyJay14 @ Jun 29 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jun 29 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.</div>

i dont think he dropped so much as the right team wasnt there to draft him.

He was basically going to Memphis at 5 or slipping to us at 10. The top 3 in the draft were set. Rose/beasley/mayo were the guys there. At 4 the sonics wanted a gaurd. at 5 it was between brook and love. at 6 knicks didnt need a PF/C. at 7 the clips needed a guard, at 8 the bucks didnt need a bigman and loved alexander. at 9 charlotte was looking for a point gaurd.

So basically Love or Brook was going to slip from 5 to 10. there was basically 1 spot Brook could have been picked at before 10, and they preferred love. It isnt like 3 or 4 teams took another front court player in front of brook. the teams ahead of us just needed guards or were set at C.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this. This was not another Marcus Williams situation. The teams ahead of the Nets picked based on need.

 

I like how 1 negative article makes people question a draft they were so excited about not 72 hours ago like it's some kind of reality check that dismisses all credibility the positive articles had. Stop basing your opinions of writers and do your homework and watch the games. Some guys will work, others won't. Everybody will be right to some degree.

Maybe Milwaukee will have a better team next season, they do have a lot of options offensively, but in the long run when they are jammed up with a bunch of bad contracts we will have had time to play our young kids and be in great shape financially so it's a completely subjective stance on who fleeced who. I prefer what we got out of this deal and I still find it hard to believe Rod even got this much in return and nobody's going to write something that will change my mind.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 29 2008, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I like how 1 negative article makes people question a draft they were so excited about not 72 hours ago like it's some kind of reality check that dismisses all credibility the positive articles had. Stop basing your opinions of writers and do your homework and watch the games. Some guys will work, others won't. Everybody will be right to some degree.

Maybe Milwaukee will have a better team next season, they do have a lot of options offensively, but in the long run when they are jammed up with a bunch of bad contracts we will have had time to play our young kids and be in great shape financially so it's a completely subjective stance on who fleeced who. I prefer what we got out of this deal and I still find it hard to believe Rod even got this much in return and nobody's going to write something that will change my mind.</div>

i dont think anyone got fleeced. I spoke on how i loved the deal for us... but RJ is a good fit for them as well. They have good shooters with williams and redd, they needed a slasher. RJ fits that mold well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JerseyJay14 @ Jun 29 2008, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i dont think anyone got fleeced. I spoke on how i loved the deal for us... but RJ is a good fit for them as well. They have good shooters with williams and redd, they needed a slasher. RJ fits that mold well.</div>

I agree, I think it was a very fair trade. I always assumed we would get diminished returns when dealing RJ but we got the two things we could hope for in young talent (a pretty popular one at that) and cap space for 2010. The fact that Rod got what he did surprised me but in reality i works out well for both teams at the time of the trade. Down the line we'll see who is the ultimately the 'winner' as with all trades.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 29 2008, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JerseyJay14 @ Jun 29 2008, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i dont think anyone got fleeced. I spoke on how i loved the deal for us... but RJ is a good fit for them as well. They have good shooters with williams and redd, they needed a slasher. RJ fits that mold well.</div>

I agree, I think it was a very fair trade. I always assumed we would get diminished returns when dealing RJ but we got the two things we could hope for in young talent (a pretty popular one at that) and cap space for 2010. The fact that Rod got what he did surprised me but in reality i works out well for both teams at the time of the trade. Down the line we'll see who is the ultimately the 'winner' as with all trades.
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I think the fact that we changed our team dynamic with that trade is also being overlooked. We will no longer have a SG, SF, and PF on the floor without any of them being able to shoot. The drive and dish, pick and pop, and rotation on double teams will now all be there. Yi can stroke it, Simmons has a good touch, and anderson seems to have range as well. Last year we were 5th worst in the NBA in FG% as a team. It was mainly due to a lack of perimeter shooting and RJ/VC forced to take bad shots. With our new balance, that wont be the case.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JerseyJay14 @ Jun 29 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the fact that we changed our team dynamic with that trade is also being overlooked. We will no longer have a SG, SF, and PF on the floor without any of them being able to shoot. The drive and dish, pick and pop, and rotation on double teams will now all be there. Yi can stroke it, Simmons has a good touch, and anderson seems to have range as well. Last year we were 5th worst in the NBA in FG% as a team. It was mainly due to a lack of perimeter shooting and RJ/VC forced to take bad shots. With our new balance, that wont be the case.</div>

Balance is the key word. We may have lost one prolific scorer but we have added new dimensions we did not have last season and we're not finished yet. if these guys put forth a consistent effort on the defensive end, not even having to be great just a continuous effort, we'll be in excellent shape for next season and beyond.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JerseyJay14 @ Jun 29 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i dont think anyone got fleeced. I spoke on how i loved the deal for us... but RJ is a good fit for them as well. They have good shooters with williams and redd, they needed a slasher. RJ fits that mold well.</div>

I think you're forgetting that RJ has become more of a shooter than a slasher.

And that Williams and Redd have a tendency not to pass the ball.

And that the teams' defense is so bad, RJ is only going to make it worse.

Basically, unless RJ reverts to his old self, I doubt Milwaukee is going to get any better.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jun 29 2008, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think CDR dropped because what he is good at doesn't translate to the format of the workouts and his measurables were weak across the board. The guy is a great basketball player.

Lopez was taken because he fills a need for the Nets. I'm no fan of his, but they really need someone who can score down low and Lopez can do that on day one. Just that one skill will have a big effect on the team, and Frank knows how to use him to full advantage. The other parts of his game will take time to develop. He is physically ready for the NBA at 20, though, so it might not be that long until things come around.</div>

The issue with a lack of athleticism tends to come at the defensive end of the floor. Both these guys should be smart, efficient scorers, but both of them might not be quick enough to guard players on the other end.

We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?
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The lack of defense is an issue. Also, FYI, so is Yi's age. His passport says he is 20 but logic dictates he is more likely 23. Chinese have a verified history of faking kids ages so they can win international youth competitions. To accept that Yi is only 20 means you also have to accept that he was the Chinese Basketball Association ROY at age 15.
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His body looks 20.

The defense is an issue, but all four players have a chance to be decent to good defenders.

CDR was an above average defender in college. He has good height and he will fill out eventually. He's not a stopper, but I'm not too concerned with him because of his superior anticipation and work ethic. He won't let himself be a bad defender.

Anderson was a good defender in college. He seems like he would struggle in the pros because he isn't particularly quick or nimble. He will have to guard PF to start, which could be tough for him.

Yi just needs more upper body strength. He is very quick, coordinated and athletic and is a matchup nightmare. He's got the most potential on the defensive end.

Lopez is a bit of a stiff defensively, one more reason not to draft him. His twin is a good shot blocker, so maybe there's hope for him. He was taken to score inside and the Nets are crossing their fingers about the rest.


Remember one thing about CDR and Anderson, these guys are tough competitors and play hard all the time. They will learn how to be effective and overcome some of their physical limitations. Is Jason Collins physically equipped to be a good NBA defender? Competive players find a way to get stops. At the very least the team defense will improve simply because they will listen to the coach and communicate with each other.
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He blocked 12 shots in a game against UCLA in January of 07 so he can't be that bad defensively/as a shot blocker. An additional note, he got a triple double in that game. Lopez seems like a big man who can score very well in the post and from midrange. He won't be a terror on defense but he will be solid stopping his man and make it difficult to score in the paint.