We need a veteran swingman and we aren't going to acquire a decent one in free agency willing to take a 2 year deal. Eddie Jones or Stackhouse could fill that void. Other than that, I don't see what Dallas could offer us, unless we want Brandon Bass.
Why should we help Dallas? Nothing to do with us. Unless they can bring in a 3rd team, which is unlikely since they would have to give up crucial part of their thin bench, we shouldnt be involved at all to help their salary management.
they have no1 to offer us, Stack and Jones made it clear during the Kidd trade that they dont want to play for NJ and want to play in dallas.
This is what they do...they give Dallas a few names of players they would accept in a three-way sign-and-trade. They tell Dallas, "get those players and we have a deal. If you can't, you're on the hook for the MLE. Good Luck." It would be a very smart move for the Nets...and a smart move for the Mavs. It makes perfect sense. As of right now, the Nets "big deal" since February 1 is: Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, Jason Collins, Antoine Wright and Malik Allen for Devin Harris, Yi Jianlian, Ryan Anderson, Stromile Swift, Bobby Simmons, Mo Ager, Trenton Hassell, Keith Van Horn, the Mavs unprotected 2010 first round pick, $3 million in cash and a $3.3 million trade exception. So if the Mavs and Nets work out a sign-and-trade, add the players acquired in that transaction to the mix as well. (There was no way ANY other team was going to give Diop $31 million. Certainly not the Nets.) And never forget...Mark Cuban is Rod Thorn's b*tch.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jul 3 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 3 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Can a S&T include a third team?</div> Indeed, the story says Cuban and Nelson are looking for a third team, which people here seem to ignore. </div> Chicago? For Nocioni? What would the contours of a deal like that look like?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jul 4 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jul 3 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 3 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Can a S&T include a third team?</div> Indeed, the story says Cuban and Nelson are looking for a third team, which people here seem to ignore. </div> Chicago? For Nocioni? What would the contours of a deal like that look like? </div> The contours? Well: to Dal: Diop (5,7 mill) to NJ: Nocioni (8 mill) to Chi: “?, (maybe Ager + Stachouse + 2010 dallas pick from NJ) NJ has to give up about 6,5 - 10 mill to be able to take on 8 (so NJ has to add 1-4 mill to Diop) Dallas can give up around 4,5-7,5 mill receiving 5,7 (they can't even put together 4,5 without giving up stack , but stack is 7 mill by himself) while Chicago has to receive about 6,5-10 mill while giving up 8 mill. Somebody will probably have to sweaten it a bit more for Chicago. Dallas can give them Bass (which the Bulls would love probably), but Dallas has to receive something more (or sign Diop to more money), to be able to give out 8 mill (Bass + Stack) If Chi needs more for Nocioni, we can send KVH to Dallas instead of Ager to Chi, and then Dallas can send Bass ti Chi too, but we have to receive more than 8 mill then: to Dal: Diop + KVH (~10,5 mill) to NJ: Nocioni + Antoine Wright resigned for 1mill (9mill) to Chi: Dallas 2010 pick from NJ + Stachouse + Bass (8 mill) for Dal: Antoine Wright + Stackhouse + Bass for Diop + KVH (actually this is a nice salary cut for Dallas because of KVH. Losing Bass hurts though) for NJ: Diop + KVH + 2010 dal pick for Noc + Wright (looks fair, but not very good for our cap situation. we take on 9mill, while we cut nothing) for Chi: Stackhouse + Bass + 10 Dallas pick for Nocioni (they probably do this) I'd be surprised if something gets worked out though those would be the contours
THe problem even in a 3 team trade is that Dallas haz no assets anymore. If they have nothing we want I don't see them having anything anyone else would want.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>THe problem even in a 3 team trade is that Dallas haz no assets anymore. If they have nothing we want I don't see them having anything anyone else would want.</div> Brandon Bass + Stack (expiring) is a nice package. We don't want that because we have lot's of young bigs. and it's an exact match for Nocioni
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fefe @ Jul 4 2008, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>THe problem even in a 3 team trade is that Dallas haz no assets anymore. If they have nothing we want I don't see them having anything anyone else would want.</div> Brandon Bass + Stack (expiring) is a nice package. We don't want that because we have lot's of young bigs. and it's an exact match for Nocioni </div> Stackhouse isn't a true expiring. Signed for 2 more years, but with a $2mm buyout for last year. That $2mm still counts towrds the cap in 2009-10. Plus Dallas needs Bass... well they also need Stackhouse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jul 4 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jul 3 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 3 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Can a S&T include a third team?</div> Indeed, the story says Cuban and Nelson are looking for a third team, which people here seem to ignore. </div> Chicago? For Nocioni? What would the contours of a deal like that look like? </div> That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm not sure what Chicago would want, though. I wouldn't mind giving them Krstic still, and Bass like fefe said. Not sure what else could be included for Chicago. Draft pick(s) possibly.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stackhouse isn't a true expiring. Signed for 2 more years, but with a $2mm buyout for last year. That $2mm still counts towrds the cap in 2009-10. Plus Dallas needs Bass... well they also need Stackhouse.</div> Yes, they need them, but they are the ones wanting to work out a sign and trade... What else do they have? They said no George. We wouldn't take him either. That leaves only Stack. but they have to sweaten it with something, so we help them. Their only sweatener is Bass... If Dallas really wants a sign and trade, this is their only package: Bass + Stack...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fefe @ Jul 4 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stackhouse isn't a true expiring. Signed for 2 more years, but with a $2mm buyout for last year. That $2mm still counts towrds the cap in 2009-10. Plus Dallas needs Bass... well they also need Stackhouse.</div> Yes, they need them, but they are the ones wanting to work out a sign and trade... What else do they have? They said no George. We wouldn't take him either. That leaves only Stack. but they have to sweaten it with something, so we help them. Their only sweatener is Bass... If Dallas really wants a sign and trade, this is their only package: Bass + Stack... </div> That's why I don't think a S&T will happen. Cuban may want it, but he needs to go out and find it. The Nets obviously found nothing of interest and I doubt anyone else will. Cuban always tries to get whatever he wants, but he's practically out of assets now. Dallas wants to trade Eddie Jones ($2mm) plus something(“). Highly doubt they use Stackhouse. They rely on him as a key guy in the rotation and he makes too much money.
In my read of the CBA FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73, if Diop is signed for MLE type money (5.7M), he will immediately become BYC for trade purposes, so the salary we're working with (from the Nets' perspective, only) isn't 5.7 but $2.85M.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 4 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In my read of the CBA FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73, if Diop is signed for MLE type money (5.7M), he will immediately become BYC for trade purposes, so the salary we're working with (from the Nets' perspective, only) isn't 5.7 but $2.85M.</div> From our perspective that could be true, but in order to take on Diop Dallas would still need to move about $4.5mm in salaries, since they are over the cap.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 4 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In my read of the CBA FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73, if Diop is signed for MLE type money (5.7M), he will immediately become BYC for trade purposes, so the salary we're working with (from the Nets' perspective, only) isn't 5.7 but $2.85M.</div> From our perspective that could be true, but in order to take on Diop Dallas would still need to move about $4.5mm in salaries, since they are over the cap. </div> Yes, I got it wrong, missed the BYC part. but I think my 3way still works (Antoine Wright is not needed anymore tough): for Dal: Stackhouse + Bass for Diop + KVH 8 mill for 9 mill for NJ: Diop + KVH + 2010 dal pick for Noc 6,8 mill for 8 mill for Chi: Nocioni for Stackhouse + Bass + 10 Dallas pick (they probably do this) 8 mill for 8 mill
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 4 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In my read of the CBA FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73, if Diop is signed for MLE type money (5.7M), he will immediately become BYC for trade purposes, so the salary we're working with (from the Nets' perspective, only) isn't 5.7 but $2.85M.</div> From our perspective that could be true, but in order to take on Diop Dallas would still need to move about $4.5mm in salaries, since they are over the cap.</div> True. How's this: New Jersey GIVES: Desagana Diop $2,850,000.00 (S & T) Keith Van Horn $3,792,112.00 NJ Future 1st Rd (prot) GETS: Andres Nocioni $8,000,000.00 Chicago GIVES: Andres Nocioni $8,000,000.00 GETS: Eddie Jones $1,976,400.00 Deavan George $3,000,000.00 NJ Future 1st Rd (prot) Dallas GIVES: Eddie Jones $1,976,400.00 Deavan George $3,000,000.00 (S & T) GETS: Desagana Diop $5,700,000 The Nets basically give up a first rounder with de-escalating protection through, say, 2011 for Nocioni. Chicago gets that future first rounder and immediate cap relief (cheap buyout of Van Horn and Eddie Jones) plus a veteran wing to backup the youngsters at the 2 and 3. Dallas gets Diop without using their MLE or moving any of their other key assets. ETA: Reformatted from original post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fefe @ Jul 4 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 4 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In my read of the CBA FAQ http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73, if Diop is signed for MLE type money (5.7M), he will immediately become BYC for trade purposes, so the salary we're working with (from the Nets' perspective, only) isn't 5.7 but $2.85M.</div> From our perspective that could be true, but in order to take on Diop Dallas would still need to move about $4.5mm in salaries, since they are over the cap. </div> Yes, I got it wrong, missed the BYC part. but I think my 3way still works (Antoine Wright is not needed anymore tough): for Dal: Stackhouse + Bass for Diop + KVH 8 mill for 9 mill for NJ: Diop + KVH + 2010 dal pick for Noc 6,8 mill for 8 mill for Chi: Nocioni for Stackhouse + Bass + 10 Dallas pick (they probably do this) 8 mill for 8 mill </div> Why doesn't NJ just trade KVH (including $500K for the buyout) + Hassell + Dallas 2010 pick for Nocioni? Chicago gets close to $3.65mm in savings for this season and $3.15 for next year and a 1st round pick. Total saved = $6.8mm Bass is a restricted free agent. Doubt they get him for $1mm, but let's say they do sign a 1 yr deal at $1mm. With Stackhouse and Bass they get no savings this season and only $5.5mm next year. Total saved - $5.5mm. I rather get rid of Hassell than help Dallas get Diop. THe above 3 way scenario doesn't give us full value for the KVH contract. The benifits of that contract combined with a 1st round pick and Chicago's need to save some cash should get us Nocioni.
I don't feel as bad about keeping Hassell at this point as others. He is a professional and a veteran and will work hard in practice, especially defensively, and that influence would be terrific to have in the background of the team with so many young players. His contract expires in time for the big FA market. And he may also be useful on some nights when our other wing core gets in foul trouble trying to deal with the likes of LeBron. I would actually rather get rid of Swift if we did a two-way deal with Chicago. Also, since the real prize here for Chicago is cap relief, I'm not sure I would give up the Dallas first rounder at this point. Could very well be a lottery pick. I'd prefer de-escalating protection over at least 2 years of the Net's pick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why doesn't NJ just trade KVH (including $500K for the buyout) + Hassell + Dallas 2010 pick for Nocioni? Chicago gets close to $3.65mm in savings for this season and $3.15 for next year and a 1st round pick. Total saved = $6.8mm Bass is a restricted free agent. Doubt they get him for $1mm, but let's say they do sign a 1 yr deal at $1mm. With Stackhouse and Bass they get no savings this season and only $5.5mm next year. Total saved - $5.5mm. I rather get rid of Hassell than help Dallas get Diop. THe above 3 way scenario doesn't give us full value for the KVH contract. The benifits of that contract combined with a 1st round pick and Chicago's need to save some cash should get us Nocioni.</div> You are probably right. I was sticked to the Dallas sign and trade part. I still think Chicago will want more for Nocioni. That's why i wanted to add Bass. I thought he has another year left. That's what hoopshype says: dallas salary How do you know that he is a FA?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 4 2008, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't feel as bad about keeping Hassell at this point as others. He is a professional and a veteran and will work hard in practice, especially defensively, and that influence would be terrific to have in the background of the team with so many young players. His contract expires in time for the big FA market. And he may also be useful on some nights when our other wing core gets in foul trouble trying to deal with the likes of LeBron. I would actually rather get rid of Swift if we did a two-way deal with Chicago. Also, since the real prize here for Chicago is cap relief, I'm not sure I would give up the Dallas first rounder at this point. Could very well be a lottery pick. I'd prefer de-escalating protection over at least 2 years of the Net's pick.</div> Vow, we where saying the total opposit at the same time I say salary relief plus pick is not enough for Nocioni, You say adding the pick is already too much
