<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jul 4 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To conclude, bringing in Nocioni does have a major impact on our cap for 2011 off season. Without him, we can start LeBron at around $18/19M per season with 10% increments every season, which would make it a 5 year, $110M contract, taking him to age 31 when it expires. Or he may decide to take another short term deal... say 3 yrs/$60M Of course all of this assumes no more FA moves, which is relatively unrealistic.</div> The only way LeBron gets the 10.5% raises is through a S&T. Since the Nets would have to give up something in an S&T besides cap space, not having all of the 20 mil in space isn't a problem. </div> What is the maximum allowable yearly raise as a FA? I'm trying to see what is the chance of NJ signing him outright. S&T is always a possibility, even if you're the Knicks. :-/
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jul 4 2008, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jul 4 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To conclude, bringing in Nocioni does have a major impact on our cap for 2011 off season. Without him, we can start LeBron at around $18/19M per season with 10% increments every season, which would make it a 5 year, $110M contract, taking him to age 31 when it expires. Or he may decide to take another short term deal... say 3 yrs/$60M Of course all of this assumes no more FA moves, which is relatively unrealistic.</div> The only way LeBron gets the 10.5% raises is through a S&T. Since the Nets would have to give up something in an S&T besides cap space, not having all of the 20 mil in space isn't a problem. </div> What is the maximum allowable yearly raise as a FA? I'm trying to see what is the chance of NJ signing him outright. S&T is always a possibility, even if you're the Knicks. :-/ </div> 8% raises when you sign another team's player
People don't want to see us lose Nenad for nothing. What makes people think Cleveland would lose Lebron for nothing? All you need is enough cap space to give him a credible offer. Say about $12-15mm to start. If you can do that, and Lebron commits to take that, then Cleveland will work a s&t with him getting the max. At that stage all you need is about $3-5mm in contracts to send back plus picks. Look at the Rashad Lewis signing last year as a prime example of how that works.
The only thing I don't like about Nocioni is the fact that he's 28....while the team is getting younger. Other than that, he gets the stamp of approval by pegs. Oh yeah, and what if Vince were somehow traded to the Bulls..? That'd be an interesting bit.
Noc is a decent player, but he's overpaid. He isn't a great defender and is a bit of a chucker. He's not even close to being as good as RJ. Trading for him means that will have to get rid of Carter for expirings if we want LeBron. At that price, he simply isn't worth it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Basileus777 @ Jul 4 2008, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Noc is a decent player, but he's overpaid. He isn't a great defender and is a bit of a chucker. He's not even close to being as good as RJ. Trading for him means that will have to get rid of Carter for expirings if we want LeBron. At that price, he simply isn't worth it.</div> ? He's a really good defender. A real pain in the ass. Go read the thread... they can still get Lebron.
Okay... just so everyone knows. Here is what we have commited in 2010: Carter: $ 17.5 Harris: $ 8.4 Yi: $ 3.4 Sean: $ 2.1 Lopez: $2.0 Anderson: $1.2 Total: $34.6 2009 rookie could be due another $2mm. Marcus, Boone, and Ager are all listed with the QO. Marcus and Ager will be gone. Who knows about Boone So with the 2009 rookie added in we have about $37mm commited. Nocioni makes $7mm in 2010. Would bring the total to $44mm. THE CAP IS PROJECTED AT $60MM!! We have room to add Lebron. All you need is the ability for him to accept a contract starting at $15mm and Cleveland will do a S&T. Between Nike contract bumps for playing in NYC market and the China potential I think it's a credible threat to steal Lebron and force a S&T.
I agree with Basileus777 that Noc's D is overrated but his effort outweighs RJ's contributions on that end 10 fold.
Nocioni's contract decreases as time goes on, this would be a good deal to make. I don't know what exactly Chicago is looking for though. Are they looking at a young player, or just get rid of him for expiring contracts? No one really knows at this point I don't think. Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that: Stromile Swift Maurice Ager for Andres Nocioni
Well Nocioni will make an average of like 7 mill per year for the next 4 or 5 years or whatever. RJ was going to be making an average of 14 mill per year over the next 3.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZHAKIDD532 @ Jul 4 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that:</div> They can re-sign their own free agents regardless of the cap. The point is they probably won't want to have $8mm invested in Nocioni and another +/- $10mm in Deng when they both mostly play the same position. I think their goal would be to have some cap space next year and in 2010. Probably want to target Wade in 2010 to pair up with Rose.
Just for laughs and giggles [video=youtube;H8C57y4remo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8C57y4remo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8C57y4remo[/video]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rimsh @ Jul 4 2008, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just for laughs and giggles [video=youtube;H8C57y4remo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8C57y4remo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8C57y4remo[/video]</div> Hats off to Nocioni for stepping in and trying to do something. Most players are afraid to be in a poster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZHAKIDD532 @ Jul 4 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that:</div> They can re-sign their own free agents regardless of the cap. The point is they probably won't want to have $8mm invested in Nocioni and another +/- $10mm in Deng when they both mostly play the same position. I think their goal would be to have some cap space next year and in 2010. Probably want to target Wade in 2010 to pair up with Rose. </div> The Bulls don't want to pay the tax
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZHAKIDD532 @ Jul 4 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that:</div> They can re-sign their own free agents regardless of the cap. The point is they probably won't want to have $8mm invested in Nocioni and another +/- $10mm in Deng when they both mostly play the same position. I think their goal would be to have some cap space next year and in 2010. Probably want to target Wade in 2010 to pair up with Rose. </div> The Bulls don't want to pay the tax </div> They are far from the luxury tax (at about $53mm, $14-15mm under threshold). They can sign Deng and still be under. I think it's more about future cap space. Unless they are looking to sign both Deng and Gordon. Then KVH contract is the best thing for them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZHAKIDD532 @ Jul 4 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that:</div> They can re-sign their own free agents regardless of the cap. The point is they probably won't want to have $8mm invested in Nocioni and another +/- $10mm in Deng when they both mostly play the same position. I think their goal would be to have some cap space next year and in 2010. Probably want to target Wade in 2010 to pair up with Rose. </div> The Bulls don't want to pay the tax </div> They are far from the luxury tax (at about $53mm, $14-15mm under threshold). They can sign Deng and still be under. I think it's more about future cap space. Unless they are looking to sign both Deng and Gordon. Then KVH contract is the best thing for them. </div> Don't discount a S&T for Gordon
Here are some fun Nocioni highlights. <div><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yFGUBV8ZAaU&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yFGUBV8ZAaU&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /></embed></object></div> <div><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xNQsvsztInY&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xNQsvsztInY&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /></embed></object></div> Harris/?? Carter/CDR Nocioni/Simmons/Anderson Krstic/Yi/Sean Boone/Lopez Throw in a veteran pg like Dooling or A. Johnson behind Harris and maybe a 3rd string young pg for development/practice (maybe from a trade for Marcus) and I think we have a pretty good team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't discount a S&T for Gordon</div> To the Nets? Gordon & Nocioni for Carter and KVH? I hope the Nets don't do that. I'm not a huge Gordon fan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 4 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 4 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't discount a S&T for Gordon</div> To the Nets? Gordon & Nocioni for Carter and KVH? I hope the Nets don't do that. I'm not a huge Gordon fan. </div> No, to another team that would salary to the Bulls books
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZHAKIDD532 @ Jul 4 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nocioni's contract decreases as time goes on, this would be a good deal to make. I don't know what exactly Chicago is looking for though. Are they looking at a young player, or just get rid of him for expiring contracts? No one really knows at this point I don't think. Someone said they just want to resign Deng, but I don't really know how they can do that by making a deal this season. They won't be able to cut enough to sign him until next year...the Warriors have tons of cap, maybe they could make a move with them, but other than that: Stromile Swift Maurice Ager for Andres Nocioni</div> Hey Zahkidd, welcome to S2! Feel free to send me, or any other mod, a PM if you have any questions or concerns on the site. My first reaction to your trade proposal, is that if I had Nocioni I sure as hell would want to trade him for more than Swift and Ager. Now the Nets made a similar deal (in terms of philosophy) with the RJ trade; they got cap room and a young player. Except Yi could be a great player in this league; Ager? eh... I think you'd have to start by adding a first round draft pick.
