Lieberman's support of McCain frays ties to Democratic friends

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Denny Crane, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/14/ame...rman.php?page=1

    Lieberman's support of McCain frays ties to Democratic friends
    By Mark Leibovich
    Monday, July 14, 2008

    WASHINGTON: Joseph Lieberman, the lapsed Democrat from Connecticut, strolled into the weekly lunch of the Senate Democrats, unaccompanied by a food taster.

    He greeted his colleagues, including some who felt he should not have been there last Tuesday. He ate his lunch (salad, eschewing the macaroni and cheese) and sat through a discussion about gasoline prices and Medicare.

    Then the conversation veered into the danger zone, the presidential election - specifically, Senator John McCain's recent votes, or nonvotes, on energy policy.

    At which point Lieberman walked out.

    "I just didn't feel it was appropriate for me to be there," Lieberman explained the next day.

    "It was the right thing to do," said Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Democratic whip, who said that a colleague approached him afterward to complain about Lieberman's showing up. "This is a delicate situation," Durbin summed up.

    It has grown increasingly so for Lieberman, once his party's vice-presidential candidate and now a self-styled "independent Democrat." He has zigzagged the country on behalf of McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, and, in recent weeks, amplified his criticism of Senator Barack Obama to a point that has infuriated many of his Democratic colleagues.

    At least two have asked Lieberman to tone down his rhetoric against Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, two colleagues said, and at least three have advised Lieberman against speaking at the Republican convention, a prospect he has said he would entertain.

    Clearly, Lieberman's already precarious marriage with the Democrats has reached a new level of discord and could be approaching divorce, if not necessarily a remarriage into the Republican Party. The strain has been rooted largely in Lieberman's steadfast support for the Bush administration's engagement in Iraq and his hawkish views on Iran. He has not ruled out switching parties but has stopped short of saying he has moved so far from the Democratic Party - or, in his view, the other way around - that he is at a point of no return.

    "I don't have any line that I have in my mind," Lieberman said in an interview. "If it happened, I'd know it when I saw it."

    Lieberman was leaning back in a chair in his Senate office, wearing a loose-fitting pinstriped suit, grinning a lot and appearing quite comfortable while describing "my uncomfortable position."

    "I think most people in his caucus expected Joe's views on national security, but I think the extent of his embrace of McCain has surprised some people," said Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine and one of Lieberman's closest friends in the Senate. "That's taking an extra step."

    Democrats complain that he has gone even further with his ramped-up attacks on Obama. "The fact that the spokesperson for Hamas would say they would welcome the election of Senator Obama really does raise the question, Why?" Lieberman said recently on CNN. A few days later on Fox News he called Obama "naïve" in his views on Iran.

    In his office on Wednesday, Lieberman spoke of what he called Obama's "remarkable change of position" on a variety of issues.

    "Senator Obama has really moved," Lieberman said. "Since he clinched the nomination a month ago, in my opinion he has altered and nuanced more big positions more quickly than I can remember any other presidential nominees."

    This line of criticism was consistent with Republican attacks last week against Obama. When asked whether he had received "talking points" from the McCain campaign or the Republican National Committee, Lieberman replied, "I usually don't." He added that he was having a blast with McCain on the campaign trail, accompanying him on a trip to Colombia and Mexico this month. He has been a regular on McCain's Three Amigos circuit, which includes Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina.

    All of which has angered his Democratic friends, or former friends.

    "I think there's a difference in the way Joe has been treated now by people in his caucus compared to the beginning of last year," Collins said. That was when Lieberman returned to the Senate after losing the Connecticut Democratic primary, running as an "independent Democrat" and prevailing in the general election.

    Lieberman continued to vote with his party most of the time, while the Democrats, clinging to a 51-49 majority, smiled tightly and tried to hold on to their flight-risk colleague.

    It has been tough, though. Lieberman has declared himself "liberated" from the shackles of party affiliation and seemed to delight in bucking Democrats on foreign policy matters. "There were times in my career where I really wanted to be supported, dare I say liked, by everyone," Lieberman said in the interview.

    Other prominent Democrats suspect that Lieberman is acting, in part, out of spite against a party whose voters have rejected him.

    "My own sense is that he was just bitterly disappointed by doing so poorly in 2004," said Representative Barney Frank, a Democrat from Massachusetts, referring to Lieberman's early flameout as a presidential candidate.

    In his office, Lieberman had practiced answers and nondenial denials for the litany of questions he had received: whether he would be McCain's running mate ("I'm not really interested, and I don't expect to be asked"), whether he would take a cabinet post in a McCain administration (he is interested only in representing Connecticut in the Senate) and whether he is concerned that he is getting some of his lowest poll numbers in his home state in years (no).

    But the question that seemed to stump him was whether he would speak at the Republican convention. His face took on a slightly pained expression. If he does speak, "I would not go to speak to attack Barack Obama," he said. "I would go to say why I'm supporting John McCain."

    What is clear is that Lieberman will not be attending the Democratic convention for the first time since he started going in 1976, the year Jimmy Carter was nominated in New York.

    "I'll miss it," he said of not attending the Democratic convention, in Denver. "I feel badly about this turn of events."
     
  2. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Lieberman has declared himself "liberated" from the shackles of party affiliation.</div>
    There's nothing wrong with that. I actually applaud him for it, because if there's one thing I can't stand its people that cling to a partisan mentality. But the lower poll numbers in his home state might suggest he's representing himself more than the people who put him in office.
     
  3. Hunter

    Hunter Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    With 1/3 of the Senate up for re-election in November, it isn't a suprise the Democrats are making their frustrations known publicly about Lieberman now. It just shows the political landscape in this country. The Democrats haven't been happy with him for awhile but they sure as hell couldn't do anything about it because he caucses with the Democratic party and if he switched over to the Republican party that would make it 50-50 and thus giving the Republicans the control of the Senate legislation and the committees.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I wouldn't be shocked if he was McCain's choice for VP.
     
  5. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 14 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't be shocked if he was McCain's choice for VP.</div>

    That would be an excellent choice for McCain. (doubt he does it though)
     
  6. Hunter

    Hunter Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 14 2008, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 14 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't be shocked if he was McCain's choice for VP.</div>

    That would be an excellent choice for McCain. (doubt he does it though)
    </div>

    That would be a horrible move for McCain. Joe Lieberman is a complete liberal on social and economic issues and only sides with the Republicans on the war. McCain is already having problems enough convincing this Republican base that he is conservative enough. Why would he pick a liberal to be his partner? If anything, he is going to pick a conservative to appease the party base.
     
  7. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    Weird, I thought I had made my post on my phone a few hours ago.

    Anyway, Hunter's right. This isn't Michael Dukakis or Walter Mondale McCain is facing. He's facing possibly the strongest candidate since RFK for the Democratic party. He can't afford to piss off the conservative wing of the party any further than he already has. A lot of them are still pissed off that Mitt Romney isn't the nominee, (though they're not nearly as distraught as Hillary supporters are). Lieberman would drive them off the deep end.

    At the same time, it would be a nice opportunity to move the Republican party away from the Jerry Falwell, Evangelical part of the party, which has had the GOP by the balls for the past 20 years.
     
  8. AEM

    AEM Gesundheit

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    I see Lieberman more as a Cabinet appointment, should McCain win.
     
  9. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    As for picking VP candidates, my sentimental pick is Tom Ridge, the former (and very popular) Governor of PA and director of Homeland Security. He and McCain go back to '82 when they first were elected to the House together. Both are Vietnam Vets who were injured in the line of duty, and both hold moderate-but-conservative track records. Ridge grew up in public housing in working class Pennsylvania. He has every bit of the blue-collar mentality and personality as the voters Obama has trouble getting to vote for him.

    The only problem is, Ridge is Pro-Choice. It's why he has close to zero chance to being named the nominee. That's why the only logical choice has to be Mitt Romney. He can raise the most money and he can deliver Michigan. Most importantly, out of all the Presidential candidates this year on both sides, nobody has an economic track record like Mitt Romney (Bain Capital, 2002 Utah games, Left Massachusetts with a surplus).

    It's also arguable that there might not be anyone more intelligent than Romney (perfect SAT score, valedictorian at BYU, Harvard Law/MBA), which makes it sort of baffling as to why he got manhandled by McCain in the primary season and debates. McCain and Romney probably don't like eachother. McCain probably thinks of Romney as a goody-two shoes suck-up, and Romney probably thinks McCain as an annoying loose cannon. But LBJ and JFK didn't like eachother and neither did Reagan and Bush. Romney wants the VP spot, no matter what he says, and McCain needs Romney at this point.

    As for the other candidates, Charlie Crist is not needed to deliver Florida, and the vetting process might not go too well for him in terms of his personal life. Bobby Jindal, unless his approval rating goes to the toilet and/or he's plagued by some sort of scandal, will proabably run for President some day (if you're being called the next Ronald Reagan by Rush, you must be doing something right), but he's been governor six months. I cannot for the life of me understand why Tim Pawlenty is being considered either. I don't understand what he brings to the ticket.
     
  10. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter @ Jul 14 2008, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 14 2008, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 14 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't be shocked if he was McCain's choice for VP.</div>

    That would be an excellent choice for McCain. (doubt he does it though)
    </div>

    That would be a horrible move for McCain. Joe Lieberman is a complete liberal on social and economic issues and only sides with the Republicans on the war. McCain is already having problems enough convincing this Republican base that he is conservative enough. Why would he pick a liberal to be his partner? If anything, he is going to pick a conservative to appease the party base.
    </div>

    Somewhat off topic, please excuse this:

    This is quite interesting, I am the opposite of Lieberman (for the record) then. Though I lean to the left in general.
     
  11. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    golf clap for McCain. Good luck winning win Loserman.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Yup, he was the Loserman in the Sore/Loserman pairing.
     
  13. The Return of the Raider

    The Return of the Raider Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 15 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yup, he was the Loserman in the Sore/Loserman pairing.</div>

    I think that if Hillary had beaten Obama, he would have been on her ticket. No?
     
  14. Real

    Real Dumb and Dumbest

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 15 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 15 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yup, he was the Loserman in the Sore/Loserman pairing.</div>

    I think that if Hillary had beaten Obama, he would have been on her ticket. No?
    </div>

    No chance since he supports the war.
     

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