Link <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Baron Davis is a member of the Clippers and the reason he's no longer with Golden State was the choosing of the club if you ask his agent. Davis' agent, Todd Ramasar, said, "The organization wasn't committed to Baron Davis long-term." There was "No effort to retain him."</div>
The agents will always say it is, "Thier fault", no matter what the terms of the deal are. Please, show me a quote from an agent that has ever taken the blame when negotiations didn't go through. Why not take the position of the opposite side and ask, "Why won't you take our offer? Don't you want to continue playing here? Can't we work out another deal in 2 years? You have only proven last season (late in your career) that you can play a whole year without missing time for injury? Why don't you hold yourself accountable for that Baron? Hmmm, we're listening? They keep shopping their client to the highest bidder. Someone will finally bite. They didn't want to give him a contract for that many years. He refused to take a shorter term deal in GS, no? The team was getting better every year that Baron was there. He left for the money, not because he really cares about whether or not his team is going to reach the Finals. He didn't want to see it through to its conclusion. If Baron had gotten a deal done earlier and stayed, I wonder if Elton Brand might have just decided to join the W's. Based on all the he said, she said crap about EB, anything is possible.
If the Warriors could have kept Baron, they could have been in the playoff hunt this season. With the addition of Corey Maggette, he would've had another shooter to go with his game. But now, he'll be struggling to win in LA, where he probably won't even grab an eight-seed with the Clipps. Also, Baron must've expected Elton Brand to stick in LA, but apparently he had different ideas - grabbing the best offer he could get. Who know, maybe B-Diddy will make the best of his time in LA and (almost single-handedly) lead them to the playoffs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKing99 @ Jul 20 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the Warriors could have kept Baron, they could have been in the playoff hunt this season. With the addition of Corey Maggette, he would've had another shooter to go with his game. But now, he'll be struggling to win in LA, where he probably won't even grab an eight-seed with the Clipps. Also, Baron must've expected Elton Brand to stick in LA, but apparently he had different ideas - grabbing the best offer he could get. Who know, maybe B-Diddy will make the best of his time in LA and (almost single-handedly) lead them to the playoffs.</div> He'll be hanging out with movie stars like Adam Sandler as well and playing in his hometwon. He's got talent around him in Camby and Thornton. You never know, he might pull out another miracle.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKing99 @ Jul 20 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the Warriors could have kept Baron, they could have been in the playoff hunt this season. With the addition of Corey Maggette, he would've had another shooter to go with his game. But now, he'll be struggling to win in LA, where he probably won't even grab an eight-seed with the Clipps. Also, Baron must've expected Elton Brand to stick in LA, but apparently he had different ideas - grabbing the best offer he could get. Who know, maybe B-Diddy will make the best of his time in LA and (almost single-handedly) lead them to the playoffs.</div> I think they had their young core in mind. If they keep Baron for that huge contract and sign Maggette (not sure if that would've even been possible), they'd basically run out of money for Biedrins and Ellis. I like the decision the Warriors front office made, when it came to Baron. And I've yet to come across an objective opinion from an agent.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 20 2008, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKing99 @ Jul 20 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the Warriors could have kept Baron, they could have been in the playoff hunt this season. With the addition of Corey Maggette, he would've had another shooter to go with his game. But now, he'll be struggling to win in LA, where he probably won't even grab an eight-seed with the Clipps. Also, Baron must've expected Elton Brand to stick in LA, but apparently he had different ideas - grabbing the best offer he could get. Who know, maybe B-Diddy will make the best of his time in LA and (almost single-handedly) lead them to the playoffs.</div> I think they had their young core in mind. If they keep Baron for that huge contract and sign Maggette (not sure if that would've even been possible), they'd basically run out of money for Biedrins and Ellis. I like the decision the Warriors front office made, when it came to Baron. And I've yet to come across an objective opinion from an agent. </div> Agree. Mullin made offers to Baron and Baron didn't take them. The Clippers were willing to give Baron 5 years at 13 mils a year and Mullin wouldn't, which I agree with. Sure we'd be in the playoff hunt next season but what about year 2, 3, 4, 5? Is Baron going to stay healthy? Keep a good attitude? How is age going to affect him? Hes way too much of a risk at that kind of money. Once Baron opted out that didn't change our offer. We went after Brand which would have been great if it went through. Mags and Turiaf cost us 67 mils but I trust these guys to be effective for their entire contracts. Now its really up to our young core to determine whether we're a winner or not. We need guys like Monta, Wright, Randolph to become quality players. Right now we're just putting guys who can play now around them.
I don't think this is really new news. I think Baron even wanted an extension before last season, but the Warriors didn't bite. The Warriors did not want Baron long term at a large contract. I am curious how Baron will work with Dunleavy and vice versa. Baron and Nelson was an awesome duo. I think Nelson certainly turned Baron's career around.
The Warriors should've offered Baron a three year extension around $12 M per making it a total payout of around $53 M for four years. After all, he was the Warriors' best player, led us to the playoffs two years ago, and had his best season as a Warrior, maybe his career, last year. Anyway, Baron is gone and we got Maggette and Turiaf. I'm not sure if those two are worth a Baron. If we got Brand, then it would've been a no brainer FTW.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jason voorhees @ Jul 21 2008, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Warriors should've offered Baron a three year extension around $12 M per making it a total payout of around $53 M for four years. After all, he was the Warriors' best player, led us to the playoffs two years ago, and had his best season as a Warrior, maybe his career, last year. Anyway, Baron is gone and we got Maggette and Turiaf. I'm not sure if those two are worth a Baron. If we got Brand, then it would've been a no brainer FTW.</div> With Baron, we went 0-6 until Steven Jackson came back from suspension. I know Davis is a better individual player than Jackson, but I wonder if Baron's role can be handed off with a minimal impact. This is a shoot-first, pass second team. There shouldn't be a lot of slow play development in the first place. In my own opinion, I think Nellie ball will survive here without Davis, but he will be dearly missed.
Nellie Ball is a gimmick. This team has to learn how to play some defense and how to manage slow tempos. Just because they can outrun the other team doesn't mean they control the tempo. First they have to play defense and rebound and score inside when the outside shot ain't falling! If you got inside and outside game, then the passing game becomes a bit better. If there's no inside, then it becomes a predictable game of jack-a-shot, pick and pop and 1 vs. 5.
I think it's unfair to label the Warriors' style last year "Nellie Ball." I think Nellie applied the best style for the talent that was available. We have different talent now and I think Nellie will adjust to that. Nellie has also publicly stated he will play/develop the young guys, something he has never done before. This might be a different "Nellie Ball" than we're use to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jason voorhees @ Jul 21 2008, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, Baron is gone and we got Maggette and Turiaf. I'm not sure if those two are worth a Baron. If we got Brand, then it would've been a no brainer FTW.</div> They're not worth a Baron, but we shouldn't look at Maggette and Turiaf as replacements for Baron. I've stated this several times now. Maggette should be viewed as a replacement (as far as contributions go) for Barnes and Pietrus. Turiaf is a replacement for Patrick O'Bryant. We're going to get much better production out of Mags and Turiaf compared to Barnes/Pietrus and POB. The replacement for Baron is better team play. It will start with coaching. Let's hope Nellie can step up.
I look at Baron being gone as a replacement for Baron. I've said that before, though, so I guess I'm spamming the board. But he was going to be gone anyway; Mullin wasn't going to give him the type of phat deal he wanted. So I was shocked when he walked away from 17+ mils -- He just gave us a year's head-start on what we would've had to deal with anyway: life after Baron. The dude was a great individual player but he had the ball in his hands for 90% of the game, and it was HIS team. Baron is not th eplayer you want as a leader, IMO, if you're trying to develop the young guys. So, IMO, yes, GSW is worse off now in terms of immediate win potential, but they're far better off in terms of larger team-picture. There's no IT'S ME on the team anymore to steal the show. Now, any one of the young guys could take over the leadership reins, along with Jax of course. But the culture -- the identity of the team -- is totally being shaken up and re-formed, and IMO that's a good thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlleyOop @ Jul 21 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I look at Baron being gone as a replacement for Baron. I've said that before, though, so I guess I'm spamming the board. But he was going to be gone anyway; Mullin wasn't going to give him the type of phat deal he wanted. So I was shocked when he walked away from 17+ -- He just gave us a year's head-start on what we would've had to deal with anyway: life after Baron. The dude was a great individual player but he had the ball in his hands for 90% of the game, and it was HIS team. Baron is not th eplayer you want as a leader, IMO, if you're trying to develop the young guys. So, IMO, yes, GSW is worse off now in terms of immediate win potential, but they're far better off in terms of larger team-picture. There's no IT'S ME on the team anymore to steal the show. Now, any one of the young guys could take over the leadership reins, along with Jax of course. But the culture -- the identity of the team -- is totally being shaken up and re-formed, and IMO that's a good thing.</div> Righto
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 20 2008, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The agents will always say it is, "Thier fault", no matter what the terms of the deal are. Please, show me a quote from an agent that has ever taken the blame when negotiations didn't go through. Why not take the position of the opposite side and ask, "Why won't you take our offer? Don't you want to continue playing here? Can't we work out another deal in 2 years? You have only proven last season (late in your career) that you can play a whole year without missing time for injury? Why don't you hold yourself accountable for that Baron? Hmmm, we're listening? They keep shopping their client to the highest bidder. Someone will finally bite. They didn't want to give him a contract for that many years. He refused to take a shorter term deal in GS, no? The team was getting better every year that Baron was there. He left for the money, not because he really cares about whether or not his team is going to reach the Finals. He didn't want to see it through to its conclusion. If Baron had gotten a deal done earlier and stayed, I wonder if Elton Brand might have just decided to join the W's. Based on all the he said, she said crap about EB, anything is possible.</div> Agents are like lawyers or ARE lawyers. They have to spin things because it's their job and obligation to their client and it's how they get a good % of the cut. In fact, I bet silver-tongued sports fans who enjoy statistics, who understand difficult legal proceedings and would love to make tons of money would be talented in justifying why their client is worth 13mil a year (injuries and attitude be damned). Agents, like lawyers/businessmen, can and will downplay anything that goes against their own bargaining device and leverages the case in their favor. So don't hate Mullin just yet. I'm sure he was firsthand witness of any red flags that he saw with Baron Davis. It could have been ego, attitude, work ethic, or because of Monta Ellis. If we had no Ellis, Baron would have been locked up because in this league, if there's no good point guard or no good center, you're screeeewwed. Think of how the Clippers had this exact problem. No Kaman, no Shaun Livingston, different ball club. An nba playoff team has to have a decent role playing point guard and a center mixed in with superstars. You could put Kobe Bryant on a team without a point guard or a center and the game becomes that much harder to compete. The biggest and smallest player on the floor matter the most. Also, Alley Oop is dead on. If we want to make the most of young players and teamwork, guys like Baron have to go. The identity of the Warriors need to change to team basketball. The warriors can't lock up money to somebody they're not comfortable with long term and stops making others better when his ego kicks in. With Baron you got injuries, ego, and sometimes attitude. What happens when the next coach after Nelly comes in? I'm sorry but Baron is not the most stable franchise players to build around if he starts pulling what he did with Byron Scott. Now maybe Byron Scott is a hardass, but that is Baron's boss and Baron's reputation is damaged because of work ethic problems and injuries (which are inter-related because sometimes he doesn't show up in the best shape after an offseason). Contrast that with guys who hit the gym, they focus on each game like it were their last, and they aren't worried about being the star on the team. Long term, Mags/Turiaf seem like better options if we're trying to develop the young guys on this team. They don't get in the way of anybody new. I keep saying stars don't need moxy, they just need to play and play consistently. Look at Tim Duncan or Ray Allen or Chauncey Billups. They are the most boring nba personalities alive, but they get you rings. They're not that emotional, it'd be cool if they were, but what's more important is that they win because they make good decisions and perform.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 21 2008, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Baron you got injuries, ego, and sometimes attitude. What happens when the next coach after Nelly comes in? I'm sorry but Baron is not the most stable franchise players to build around if he starts pulling what he did with Byron Scott. Now maybe Byron Scott is a hardass, but that is Baron's boss and Baron's reputation is damaged because of work ethic problems and injuries (which are inter-related because sometimes he doesn't show up in the best shape after an offseason). Contrast that with guys who hit the gym, they focus on each game like it were their last, and they aren't worried about being the star on the team.</div> Good point. I've thought about that, too. What happens if Baron gets a 5 year deal and Nellie leaves next year? Another Mike Montgomery situation? Where the coach is basically at the mercy of Baron? Is Kieth Smart going to come in and command respect? I've heard many greats say a championship team needs to have the closest relationship be between the head coach and the star player (like Popovich - Duncan, for example). I have a hard time imagining that Baron would give up his ego trip without a fight. And yeah, when you mention him and Byron Scott, it makes we think -- hey, CP3 isn't doing too shabby with Scott. That team seems to be gelling pretty well under their coach.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Jul 21 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's unfair to label the Warriors' style last year "Nellie Ball." I think Nellie applied the best style for the talent that was available. We have different talent now and I think Nellie will adjust to that. Nellie has also publicly stated he will play/develop the young guys, something he has never done before. This might be a different "Nellie Ball" than we're use to.</div> We'll see. When it comes to winning, instinct will kick in and he will opt for talent in the backcourt versus what he has up front. Why else would Biedrins weigh down for Nelly? The guy should have been 250 right now. He's suddenly 220 or 230, why? Nelly doesn't know how to develop big men and he's got no patience for projects. But the only way to develop bigs is to make sure they can handle the matchups (strengthwise) and to work them into the plays on their own. But Nelly doesn't do that. He's a great coach in the regular season for guards and swingmen, but I'm sure if this guy got Tim Duncan, power forward would be out of the question. The guy just wants to push the tempo even if we don't control the tempo and let his main star do whatever he wants. That's just not good. But I commend Nelly for making it work more often than not even if teams like Atlanta, Phoenix, San Antonio could run with us and they have power forward and centers that could kill us inside. I know the secret to winning warriors basketball. They need one of those big men those 3 teams have (Al Horford, Tim Duncan, or Amare Stoudamire) and for Nelly not to use them as full time centers. Biedrins, bulk up and start getting tougher. There, case closed! Improve defense and probably offensive potential.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 21 2008, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, Alley Oop is dead on. If we want to make the most of young players and teamwork, guys like Baron have to go. The identity of the Warriors need to change to team basketball. The warriors can't lock up money to somebody they're not comfortable with long term and stops making others better when his ego kicks in. With Baron you got injuries, ego, and sometimes attitude. What happens when the next coach after Nelly comes in? I'm sorry but Baron is not the most stable franchise players to build around if he starts pulling what he did with Byron Scott. Now maybe Byron Scott is a hardass, but that is Baron's boss and Baron's reputation is damaged because of work ethic problems and injuries (which are inter-related because sometimes he doesn't show up in the best shape after an offseason). Contrast that with guys who hit the gym, they focus on each game like it were their last, and they aren't worried about being the star on the team.</div> I agree. Look at what Byron Scott did with that team after Baron left. Those guys are at the top of the Western Conference now. Baron is replaceable, and history shows this. Life is full of tough decisions. The W's made one with Baron, and I think it will work out as well as it can in the long term.
