http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/18/smallbusin...sion=2008071814 Ah, the minimum a wage, a heat seeking missile aimed directly at the heart of capitolism....a minimum wage is nothing but a tax that targets the lower middle class....businesses of course, dont pay taxes, ever, they just pass it all to the consumer, so essentially, minimum wage goes up, overhead goes up, prices then go up, people making the minimum wage see no actual increase in value, people making just over the minimum wage lose value, and any money the middle class has been able to save is devalued in the process....minimum wage increase doesnt elevate the poor, but suppresses those just above the poverty level, essentially eliminating the middle class and spliting this country into two well defined classes, the rich and the poor....and once the lines are clear, war is on the horizon....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Businesses collect taxes and write big checks to the government every payroll.</div> and pass whatever tax liability they assume to the consumer....
Actually the minimum wage tends to help the middle class at the expense of the poor. Suppose you want to dig a trench. You can pay two unskilled guys with shovels $5/hr or you can pay one skilled guy with a backhoe $10/hr. They can each finish in the same amount of time. As the employer, you don't care between the one expensive guy and the two cheap guys. Now suppose we raise the minimum wage to $6/hr. Suddenly, the two cheap guys become the more expensive way to accomplish the task. Not only that, but the expensive guy gets some bargaining power. He can hold out for $11/hr without much fear of losing his job. This, in a nutshell, is the reason that unions support minimum wage laws even though their workers tend to make quite a bit more than that anyway.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 21 2008, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually the minimum wage tends to help the middle class at the expense of the poor. Suppose you want to dig a trench. You can pay two unskilled guys with shovels $5/hr or you can pay one skilled guy with a backhoe $10/hr. They can each finish in the same amount of time. As the employer, you don't care between the one expensive guy and the two cheap guys. Now suppose we raise the minimum wage to $6/hr. Suddenly, the two cheap guys become the more expensive way to accomplish the task. Not only that, but the expensive guy gets some bargaining power. He can hold out for $11/hr without much fear of losing his job. This, in a nutshell, is the reason that unions support minimum wage laws even though their workers tend to make quite a bit more than that anyway.</div> Very true. A $6 -> $8 change in the minimum wage is a 33% increase, yet the net cost is clearly less than that 33% increase. The $10 guy isn't getting a 33% increase, even if he gets that $1 raise. And, of course, there's lots of $10 guys doing entirely unrelated jobs or in industries where nobody makes the minimum. Salaries also tend to be a company's largest expense, but not its only one. If 7-11 pays everyone minimum wage, they wouldn't have to charge an extra 33% to make up for the salary cost. There's the cost of goods, rent, electricity, etc., that shaves the increased costs to something under that 33%. Even so, if 7-11 actually had 100% of its costs as salaries, if they raised the cost of milk by 33%, you'd go to the grocery store and buy it for much less since they have union employees. Not that I think that raising the minimum wage is a good thing. It is inflationary to some degree. The real danger in raising the minimum wage is that it squeezes companies who are sensitive to their payroll and they have to lay off people to make a profit.
Ah yes the pitiful Minimum Wage increase that gets poor people so happy. Newsflash! Minimum wage is increasing much slower then inflation. That means buying power is decreasing despite our sweet 20 cent raises. O how the poor get poorer.
the truth is, even if the $10 an hour guy is able to leverage a slight increase in pay, prices rise across the board and he ends up with less value at a higher number, while the 2 minumum wagers go without work and have to turn to social program to save their families....the democrats need the poor and they need the poor to feel oppressed and demand government intervention....further, the more people they can drop below the poverty line, the more votes the can garner from those that rely on social programs to survive....btw, there will always be a class of poor people, whether that line is at $15,000 a year, or $100,000 a year....changing the standard wont raise them from that class....
I still believe in some socialistic concepts. The price of health care is just ridiculous, even for the Middle Class. I've always thought we've needed to make rich people suffer to cover the costs of that at least, some things are more important than the GDP/GNP to me. Aside from that, I'm cool with Reganomics on various issues.
Everyone, buy a lottery ticket. You can't win if you don't play. People win all the time. It's going to be me next week, I can feel it! Go take a class. Go learn some stuff. Improve your grey matter, because someday, it may matter. Success is the best revenge. When I went to my 10-year high school reunion a few years ago, there were so many people who were certain that I would not make it. I did. I don't drive anymore. In 2005, the transimission went out on my car. I donated it to charity. Since then I've been taking public transit everywhere or renting a car if necessary. I have saved so much money on transportation since then. I have managed to waste my money in other ways, so it all balances out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 22 2008, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Screw all of you bastards! Min wage increase FTMFW. - Minimum Wage Employee/Student</div> Whatever. You will be us before you even realize it. Welcome.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 22 2008, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 22 2008, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Screw all of you bastards! Min wage increase FTMFW. - Minimum Wage Employee/Student</div> Whatever. You will be us before you even realize it. Welcome. </div> I'll never forget what its like to be a minimum wage employee though and never forget the people I work(ed) with. As long as I got enough to live comfortably I'll support these types of minimum wage increases.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 22 2008, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 22 2008, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 22 2008, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Screw all of you bastards! Min wage increase FTMFW. - Minimum Wage Employee/Student</div> Whatever. You will be us before you even realize it. Welcome. </div> I'll never forget what its like to be a minimum wage employee though and never forget the people I work(ed) with. As long as I got enough to live comfortably I'll support these types of minimum wage increases. </div> Everyone used to be a minimum wage employee. Ok, almost everyone. Maybe our presidents have never been.
I like minimum wage increases. It means more beer money for me. Because, my parents pretty much pay all of my expenses, so the money I make is straight profit....higher minimum wage = higher profit for me. FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ____________ OK, so what's good for me isn't good for everyone..... and no, I don't like minimum wage to begin with (much less raising it). OK, I may have also embelleshed a little. I don't make minimum wage (though, not far off).... and my parents don't pay for all of my expenses (though, they certainly do help)..... But, you get the idea
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 21 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Actually the minimum wage tends to help the middle class at the expense of the poor. Suppose you want to dig a trench. You can pay two unskilled guys with shovels $5/hr or you can pay one skilled guy with a backhoe $10/hr. They can each finish in the same amount of time. As the employer, you don't care between the one expensive guy and the two cheap guys. Now suppose we raise the minimum wage to $6/hr. Suddenly, the two cheap guys become the more expensive way to accomplish the task. Not only that, but the expensive guy gets some bargaining power. He can hold out for $11/hr without much fear of losing his job. This, in a nutshell, is the reason that unions support minimum wage laws even though their workers tend to make quite a bit more than that anyway.</div> If minimum wage is $6 an hour... A single mother who dropped out of HS is in search of a job. She finds a job opening answering phones. She applies. Me, a High School graduate/college student is in search of a job. I find the same job opening. I apply. By law, her lowest starting point is $6/hour. I value my time a little more, so I ask for $8/hour. The firm is a small business that needs to be careful with rising operating costs. They offer her the job because she is willing to take $6/hour. A year later, minimum wage increases to $8/hour. The firm can't afford her. They let her go. They also let two other employees go. They are teetering on the brink of shutting down. If that happens, 5 other employees will lose their jobs. She stumbles across another job opening. This time its data entry with some phone answering. By law, she cannot make less than $8/hour. That's what she asks for. I stumble across the same job opening. I value my time at $8/hour still. I apply. Your the boss. For the same price, you can get a High School graduate/almost finished with college applicant as a high school dropout. Who is most likely to be hired? Who likely needs the job more?
Minimum wage also destroys motivation of those that earn little....When you are working at Taco Bell already making the minimum ammount they can legally pay you, and you see the government continues to raise the minimum, you know you are guaranteed raises whether you try hard or slack off....at worst, you get fired and then go get another minimum wage job where you are guaranteed the same wage increases....if you dont think this happens, go order some food at a drive thru and see if they get close to getting the order right....the local Taco Bell here is accurate less than half the time....
