http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9556 <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Luol Deng Story: Reports yesterday suggested that Chicago Bulls' forward Luol Deng and his agent were ready to issue an "ultimatum" to the Bulls, basically saying if Luol did not have a deal done by September 1st, that he would back away from negotiations and not negotiate again with the Bulls. The reports suggested if Luol did not get a deal he's comfortable with, he'd sign the Bulls' $4.4 million qualifying offer sheet and become an unrestricted free agent next year and walk. After spending the bulk of the day on the phone talking with Bulls and league sources and a couple of agents, there is some truth to this stance. Let's not call it an ultimatum - the parameters of the negotiations have been established. That's how the agents frame it. The Bulls have had several discussions with both Luol Deng and Ben Gordon and are basically offering both players the same kinds of packages they offered last year. In Luol's case, $57 million is not enough for a number of reasons. First, other teams are offering sign-and-trade packages that Chicago seems lukewarm on exploring. Those sign-and-trade packages could get Luol in the $13 to $14 million a year range, which is substantially more than Chicago's offer - roughly $9 million per year. Some teams are telling the agents of the restricted class to take the qualifying offer this year and get radically paid next year as unrestricted free agents; this includes Ben Gordon and Luol Deng. League sources suggested that the Lakers, Pistons, Heat and Jazz have all had discussions with Luol Deng's camp about the framework of a sign-and-trade. Luol's camp would not comment on the situation, stating they did not want to negotiate in the media, but did confirm that talks were on going and that Luol, after the first round of talks, wants to remain "loyal" to the Bulls. One veteran agent not involved in talks with the Bulls explained that there are limited things a player can control in this process; one of them is choosing when to talk. The belief in both Ben Gordon and Luol Deng's case is the Bulls have had two years of talks to get to a deal, and if at this point they are not ready to make the kind of investment both players are seeking, then it's not going to happen for them. The question remains will the Bulls get serious in contract talks, or will they look to cash Luol out in a sign-and-trade and get an asset for him? It will be interesting to see who blinks first in this high stakes game of chicken, and it seems Luol's camp is ready to move on if Chicago does not get serious about Lou. The question really is can the Bulls afford to lose a player of Luol Deng's caliber next year without compensation?</div> Other teams are have found a strategy to defeat the Bulls. 1. Bulls player is RFA 2. You've got overpaid crap on your roster or short-term contracts. 3. Call up the RFA's agent and tell him you'll overpay for his client if he can just arrange a sign and trade. 4. If it works, you replace your overpaid crap with somewhat less overpaid quality young RFA. 5. If it doesn't work, you've still poisoned the well for the Bulls.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The question really is can the Bulls afford to lose a player of Luol Deng's caliber next year without compensation?</div> see the problem with this is, not only do you not get back equal value if a player is making is issues public, you usually end up taking on crap you don't want or need and it could ruin you salary cap. best to let the egotistical dork walk and use the cap room IMO. Deng's good but he's not that good.
With Childress signing to play overseas, it raises a question. MikeDC - what if Deng signed an overseas contract for 1 year, or 2 years (different scenarios)? Can he, or does he have to play out his QO year no matter what? When his euro deal runs out, he's a UFA, right?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Childress signing to play overseas, it raises a question. MikeDC - what if Deng signed an overseas contract for 1 year, or 2 years (different scenarios)? Can he, or does he have to play out his QO year no matter what? When his euro deal runs out, he's a UFA, right?</div> He can go overseas even with the QO, but if he does, the Bulls could still retain RFA rights.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Childress signing to play overseas, it raises a question. MikeDC - what if Deng signed an overseas contract for 1 year, or 2 years (different scenarios)? Can he, or does he have to play out his QO year no matter what? When his euro deal runs out, he's a UFA, right?</div> The Qualifying Offer is just a formal offer made by the team. Tendering (which just means making) the offer establishes the Bulls' right to match offers on Deng. But unless Deng accepts the offer, there's no contract. Hence, he's not under contract with anyone at the moment, and there's nothing to stop him from signing in Europe. I'm not 100% sure but I think cpaw is right that the Bulls would still hold a right to match offers on him, but I haven't found anything in the CBA that's definitive. This is a new situation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Childress signing to play overseas, it raises a question. MikeDC - what if Deng signed an overseas contract for 1 year, or 2 years (different scenarios)? Can he, or does he have to play out his QO year no matter what? When his euro deal runs out, he's a UFA, right?</div> The Qualifying Offer is just a formal offer made by the team. Tendering (which just means making) the offer establishes the Bulls' right to match offers on Deng. But unless Deng accepts the offer, there's no contract. Hence, he's not under contract with anyone at the moment, and there's nothing to stop him from signing in Europe. I'm not 100% sure but I think cpaw is right that the Bulls would still hold a right to match offers on him, but I haven't found anything in the CBA that's definitive. This is a new situation. </div> It was discussed last year when Sideshow Bob was attempting to get a better contract from the Cavs. RFA rights don't go away if a player signs a contract outside of the NBA. I can site chapter and verse if needed.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 23 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Childress signing to play overseas, it raises a question. MikeDC - what if Deng signed an overseas contract for 1 year, or 2 years (different scenarios)? Can he, or does he have to play out his QO year no matter what? When his euro deal runs out, he's a UFA, right?</div> The Qualifying Offer is just a formal offer made by the team. Tendering (which just means making) the offer establishes the Bulls' right to match offers on Deng. But unless Deng accepts the offer, there's no contract. Hence, he's not under contract with anyone at the moment, and there's nothing to stop him from signing in Europe. I'm not 100% sure but I think cpaw is right that the Bulls would still hold a right to match offers on him, but I haven't found anything in the CBA that's definitive. This is a new situation. </div> It was discussed last year when Sideshow Bob was attempting to get a better contract from the Cavs. RFA rights don't go away if a player signs a contract outside of the NBA. I can site chapter and verse if needed. </div> I don't disbelieve ya or anything, but I do like hearing verses
Yeah, verses is good. How long do they retain RFA rights? Bird rights? That's why I asked about 1 year contract vs. 2
Interestingly enough: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=827730 Gordon to the same team as Childress for 2 year/$20M contract.
As much as I like Luol Deng, him looking for $12-13mil per year is asinine in my book. He's one of those players, at least to me, that's going to be good but never great, and those players don't, or at least shouldn't, make $12-13mil per year. His injury issues also scare me, cause I don't want to have that much money wrapped up in a guy who might not be healthy all year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly enough: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=827730 Gordon to the same team as Childress for 2 year/$20M contract.</div> Wow, that says they offered a big contract to Deng
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/...-bull22.article Without new deal, Deng may go: report July 22, 2008 BY JOHN JACKSON jjackson@suntimes.com Since the free-agency period began at the start of this month, it was believed the status of Bulls restricted free agents Luol Deng and Ben Gordon might not be resolved until the fall. But according to a source close to Deng, the future of the 6-9 forward should be decided -- one way or another -- in the next two weeks. The source confirmed the main elements of a Yahoo! Sports report Monday that said Deng, 23, would opt to sign a one-year qualifying offer for $4.5 million and become an unrestricted free agent next summer if he's not able to reach a long-term agreement before he leaves the country Aug. 4. Deng will be in Europe for much of August playing with the British team in the European Championship qualifying tournament. ''This isn't an ultimatum,'' the source said. ''It's just that Lu wants to get the deal done before he leaves. There's nothing that will make the deal easier to reach in September.'' Talks have been amicable so far, but the sides remain far apart. Deng turned down a five-year, $57.5 million deal just before the start of last season. He averaged 17 points and 6.3 rebounds in 63 games -- a drop from the 18.8 points and 7.1 rebounds he averaged in 2006-07. According to another source, the Bulls' offer has not matched the figure he rejected last year. His agent, Jason Levien, didn't represent Deng at the time of the negotiations last fall. Levien declined to comment Monday but told Yahoo! he was optimistic a deal can be reached. Bulls general manager John Paxson also declined to comment. According to league sources, the Bulls and Gordon remain far apart on a new deal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly enough: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=827730 Gordon to the same team as Childress for 2 year/$20M contract.</div> Wow, that says they offered a big contract to Deng </div> I'm seeing a lot of disinformation in the thread. Gordon and/or Deng would have to pay taxes here in the states. The IRS collects taxes on your world-wide income.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't disbelieve ya or anything, but I do like hearing verses</div> http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XI.php Section 4c(ii) of Article XI <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>(ii) If a Qualifying Offer is neither withdrawn nor accepted and the deadline for accepting it passes, the Team?€™s Right of First Refusal shall continue, subject to Section 5(a) below.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Section 5. Restricted Free Agency. (a) If a Restricted Free Agent does not sign an Offer Sheet with any Team by March 1 of the Season for which the Qualifying Offer is made, and does not sign a Player Contract with the ROFR Team before that Season ends, then his ROFR Team may reassert its Right of First Refusal for the following Season by extending another Qualifying Offer (on the same terms as the prior Qualifying Offer) on or before the next June 30. A ROFR Team may continue to reassert its Right of First Refusal by following the foregoing procedure in each subsequent year in which that Restricted Free Agent does not sign an Offer Sheet with any Team by March 1 of the Season for which the Qualifying Offer is made, and does not sign a Player Contract with the ROFR Team before that Season ends. In each Season in which a Team reasserts its Right of First Refusal by extending another Qualifying Offer in accordance with this Section 5(a), the Team may also elect to simultaneously provide the player with a Maximum Qualifying Offer (on the same terms as the prior Maximum Qualifying Offer). Any such Qualifying Offer and Maximum Qualifying Offer shall be governed by the provisions of Section 4 above.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 23 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly enough: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=827730 Gordon to the same team as Childress for 2 year/$20M contract.</div> Wow, that says they offered a big contract to Deng </div> I'm seeing a lot of disinformation in the thread. Gordon and/or Deng would have to pay taxes here in the states. The IRS collects taxes on your world-wide income. </div> However, you can receive gross up pay to cover that. NBA teams are prohibited from doing that, while European teams are not.
So basically to keep the player an RFA when he returns, the team has to keep making QOs and generating big cap holds.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MikeDC @ Jul 23 2008, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So basically to keep the player an RFA when he returns, the team has to keep making QOs and generating big cap holds.</div> Bingo
