<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I just was thinking and I realized this is a bad trade for the Nets. First off Larry Hughes is just a horrible shooter. He can't make a shot any more and his shooting percentage is just declining to the point that you can't like the guy. Any fan who has recently had Larry on their hates him due to the fact he takes so many shots but misses most of them. His shooting secelection is very poor. I typed his name in google and the third site that game up was a fan site dedicated to make Larry stop taking so many bad shots. Nocioni is a good solid player. But last year he played 82 games and only averaged 13 pts and 4 rebs a game. I know Simmons is not the player he once was but don't try to tell me Simmons can't put up the exact same numbers if not better. Also taking Nocioni's contract is not what we want to do. Keep Simmons who has 2 years left and they'll produce about the same. I know you want to dump Stromile and KVH but cmon taking Hughes back will just kill us. I'd rather see C-D-R shoot at a .360 clip than Hughes. Trust me we do not want Hughes, hes washed up.</div> You are looking at just the offensive stats. Those 2 guys bring a ton of defense to the team. Depending on the roll that is required of them they can be very effective. </div> I am looking at offesnive stats because at this point because the league average in scoring is about 100 pts a game. The Nets have picked up a few good defensive pieces but at this point they need offense more than anything else. Vince Carter is already decling and he will see a ton of double teams. For us to average 100 pts we need Vince to score 25 a game because I don't see where the help will come from. Getting Nocioni and Hughes is a move to win now. It is a move to get us in the playoffs this year. But those 2 guys don't help that much more than Simmons will help. Simmons and Nocioni are about the same defensively IMO and Hughes is a good defender but he hurts you too much on offense. Hughes also hurts us if we want a FA in 2009. Cmon I really don't want Hughes on the team because if you guys watched him play your'll know why. you guys are still thinking back to his last season with washington. Hes not that guy anymore. I also don't want to hear any B.S about veteran Leadership or helping the young kids. What did Kidd ever teach Marcus? Wasn't Marcus supposed to learn under Kidd- never happened. Veterans still want to play and see the court. They don't want kids taking their playing time away.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am looking at offesnive stats because at this point because the league average in scoring is about 100 pts a game. The Nets have picked up a few good defensive pieces but at this point they need offense more than anything else. Vince Carter is already decling and he will see a ton of double teams. For us to average 100 pts we need Vince to score 25 a game because I don't see where the help will come from. Getting Nocioni and Hughes is a move to win now. It is a move to get us in the playoffs this year. But those 2 guys don't help that much more than Simmons will help. Simmons and Nocioni are about the same defensively IMO and Hughes is a good defender but he hurts you too much on offense. Hughes also hurts us if we want a FA in 2009. Cmon I really don't want Hughes on the team because if you guys watched him play your'll know why. you guys are still thinking back to his last season with washington. Hes not that guy anymore.</div> All the more reason you need players like Hughes and Noc over Simmons and “?. Have you watched Hughes? You Googled him! They are way better defensively and offensively. Simmons and Nocioni are not the same. And we aren't going after anyone in 2009. It's all about 2010. Besides if you have a suffocating defensive team you won't need to score as much. In the end defense still wins in this league. Look at Cletics, Spurs, and Pistons.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am looking at offesnive stats because at this point because the league average in scoring is about 100 pts a game. The Nets have picked up a few good defensive pieces but at this point they need offense more than anything else. Vince Carter is already decling and he will see a ton of double teams. For us to average 100 pts we need Vince to score 25 a game because I don't see where the help will come from. Getting Nocioni and Hughes is a move to win now. It is a move to get us in the playoffs this year. But those 2 guys don't help that much more than Simmons will help. Simmons and Nocioni are about the same defensively IMO and Hughes is a good defender but he hurts you too much on offense. Hughes also hurts us if we want a FA in 2009. Cmon I really don't want Hughes on the team because if you guys watched him play your'll know why. you guys are still thinking back to his last season with washington. Hes not that guy anymore.</div> All the more reason you need players like Hughes and Noc over Simmons and ???. Have you even watched Hughes? You Googled him! They are way better defensively and offensively. Simmons and Nocioni are not the same. And we aren't going after anyone in 2009. It's all about 2010. Besides if you have a suffocating defensive team you won't need to score as much. In the end defense still wins in this league. Look at Cletics, Spurs, and Pistons. </div> ya the celtics just played great TEAM defense vs the lakers... they threw so many combinations vs kobe... and we all have to admit kobe is the best player in the league rite now... defense should always come first cuz offense will follow... offense wins games... defense wins championships!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Great Trade too bad your not a GM though.</div> It's not far-fetched. The Nets have talked to the Bulls about Nocioni.
I really like the trade just what we need now to at least look a little competitive for whoever we get in 2010. The reason i don't know if the trade will work is Noccioni had 5 years left at 8 million a year and the Bulls may feel they are not getting enough in return besides the money they make. I would think we would have to throw in a little something extra like a draft pick or something
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J Piz @ Jul 24 2008, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I really like the trade just what we need now to at least look a little competitive for whoever we get in 2010. The reason i don't know if the trade will work is Noccioni had 5 years left at 8 million a year and the Bulls may feel they are not getting enough in return besides the money they make. I would think we would have to throw in a little something extra like a draft pick or something</div> They need to shed Nocioni's salary to keep Deng. Denver gave away Camby to have that kind of flexibility. PLUS we are taking Hughes off their books!! That's the bonus for them. The fact that Noc and Deng play the same position makes it rough for them. The money actually doubles if you factor saved luxury taxes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am looking at offesnive stats because at this point because the league average in scoring is about 100 pts a game. The Nets have picked up a few good defensive pieces but at this point they need offense more than anything else. Vince Carter is already decling and he will see a ton of double teams. For us to average 100 pts we need Vince to score 25 a game because I don't see where the help will come from. Getting Nocioni and Hughes is a move to win now. It is a move to get us in the playoffs this year. But those 2 guys don't help that much more than Simmons will help. Simmons and Nocioni are about the same defensively IMO and Hughes is a good defender but he hurts you too much on offense. Hughes also hurts us if we want a FA in 2009. Cmon I really don't want Hughes on the team because if you guys watched him play your'll know why. you guys are still thinking back to his last season with washington. Hes not that guy anymore.</div> All the more reason you need players like Hughes and Noc over Simmons and ?€œ?. Have you watched Hughes? You Googled him! They are way better defensively and offensively. Simmons and Nocioni are not the same. And we aren't going after anyone in 2009. It's all about 2010. Besides if you have a suffocating defensive team you won't need to score as much. In the end defense still wins in this league. Look at Cletics, Spurs, and Pistons. </div> Celtics, Spurs and Pistons all put up a ton of points also but why wouldn't you want FAs in 2009. DO you honestly think you can get two big name free agents in 2010? I either want to win or rebuild. It's extremely hard to do both at the same time. If we get Hughes and NOcioni what makes you think that we'll a playoff team? They were both on the Bulls and they had a horrible season. Cleveland did much better once Hughes left. 2009 will porbably be just as big as an off season as this offseason. stop with the nonsens only 2010. Why are we making any moves this off season than? The Nets know taking Hughes and Nocioni are huge contracts that will not help them in the win total by maybe just a few games. If the Nets don't make the playoffs this year, they'll have little flexibility in trying to sign and trade for people if they wanted to make a run in 2009. I say take this year to rebuild and play the rookies a lot. 2009 should be a playoff year and 2010 should be very attractive for Lebron. By the way if its all about 2010 why would you want Nocioni who plays the same postion as Lebron and will be making 8 mil. Do you really want an 8 mil bench player who would be getting up there in age. And I have watched Hughes as Lebron has been televised quite a lot over the pass few years. Hughes is just a horrible basketball player offensively and you almost fell bad for Lebron watching those games where lebron has to go through triple teams to score while Hughes can't make and open 15 footer It's not the worst trade you can make, but from a basketball standpoint it doesn't make sense, why take on two overpaid contract for the next few years when these players are older guys who are declining in basketball skills. If we were making a run at the playoffs and we needed one of them I'll say fine do it, but right now it makes us older and not really better
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Celtics, Spurs and Pistons all put up a ton of points also but why wouldn't you want FAs in 2009. DO you honestly think you can get two big name free agents in 2010? I either want to win or rebuild. It's extremely hard to do both at the same time. If we get Hughes and NOcioni what makes you think that we'll a playoff team? They were both on the Bulls and they had a horrible season. Cleveland did much better once Hughes left. 2009 will porbably be just as big as an off season as this offseason. stop with the nonsens only 2010. Why are we making any moves this off season than? The Nets know taking Hughes and Nocioni are huge contracts that will not help them in the win total by maybe just a few games. If the Nets don't make the playoffs this year, they'll have little flexibility in trying to sign and trade for people if they wanted to make a run in 2010. I say take this year to rebuild and play the rookies a lot. 2009 should be a playoff year and 2010 should be very attractive for Lebron.</div> There won't be enough room to sign someone in 2009. All we'll have is the MLE. Yes, I definitely think we got a shot at one of them in 2010, but only if we are a winning team that is one player away (and the arena is on track). And Noc will make $7mm in 2010 (it's a declining contract). Maybe he goes to Cleveland in a S&T? All you need is enough cap space to be a credible threat and you can force a S&T. At worse he's a great bench player behind Lebron. He'll be 31 then with 2 years left on his deal. Not bad.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Jul 24 2008, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hey Netted, come up with a trade for getting GINOBLI!</div> Don't think the Spurs are in any rush to get rid of him.
Netted do you think this trade will make the Nets a sure playoff team that will go deep into the playoffs? If not why do the trade? Don't you realize they just traded Jefferson. The Nets have used the R word. They are rebuilding. I edited my other post, idk if you saw it but you can't have it both ways to rebuild and compete. Hughes and Nocioni are just added contracts that are overpaid and really average basketball players. I don't see what you see if Hughes. SO what he gets steals, hes a guy that no one would want after 5 games. Don't you see hes declining. Nocioni declined last year also and his upside is very limited at this point. At this point if I'm Thorn if I"m going to make a trade its going to be for a player that you know will lead you to the playoffs such as an Artest, Josh Smith. Either that or I'll just keep the team the way it is. It's called rebuilding
does anyone else see it my way? It seems like everybody is for this trade, I'm just telling you aging declining players is more like the Sacramento Kings than the NJ Nets BTW just went over the 100th post mark.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Netted do you think this trade will make the Nets a sure playoff team that will go deep into the playoffs? If not why do the trade? Don't you realize they just traded Jefferson. The Nets have used the R word. They are rebuilding. I edited my other post, idk if you saw it but you can't have it both ways to rebuild and compete. Hughes and Nocioni are just added contracts that are overpaid and really average basketball players. I don't see what you see if Hughes. SO what he gets steals, hes a guy that no one would want after 5 games. Don't you see hes declining. Nocioni declined last year also and his upside is very limited at this point. At this point if I'm Thorn if I"m going to make a trade its going to be for a player that you know will lead you to the playoffs such as an Artest, Josh Smith. Either that or I'll just keep the team the way it is. It's called rebuilding</div> You can have both. We have solid youth. If in 2 years time you have young players like Yi, Lopez, Anderson, and CDR and you are winning then you are an attractive destination for a big time player. That's what Philly just did. Don't you think a team that was a 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs is more attractive to a big free agent than a team like Memphis or Minnesota? This move still protects the teams flexibility. I don't get what you want to do. If you want to lose games so you can get a high draft pick then just say that. Otherwise, why would you not want to win as much as possible.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Netted do you think this trade will make the Nets a sure playoff team that will go deep into the playoffs? If not why do the trade? Don't you realize they just traded Jefferson. The Nets have used the R word. They are rebuilding. I edited my other post, idk if you saw it but you can't have it both ways to rebuild and compete. Hughes and Nocioni are just added contracts that are overpaid and really average basketball players. I don't see what you see if Hughes. SO what he gets steals, hes a guy that no one would want after 5 games. Don't you see hes declining. Nocioni declined last year also and his upside is very limited at this point. At this point if I'm Thorn if I"m going to make a trade its going to be for a player that you know will lead you to the playoffs such as an Artest, Josh Smith. Either that or I'll just keep the team the way it is. It's called rebuilding</div> You can have both. We have solid youth. If in 2 years time you have young players like Yi, Lopez, Anderson, and CDR and you are winning then you are an attractive destination for a big time player. That's what Philly just did. Don't you think a team that was a 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs is more attractive to a big free agent than a team like Memphis or Minnesota? This move still protects the teams flexibility. I don't get what you want to do. If you want to lose games so you can get a high draft pick then just say that. Otherwise, why would you not want to win as much as possible. </div> because getting the eighth seed hurts in the long run with the draft. I personally say lose and rebuild unless they are serious about a championship or a deep run in the playoffs. I would like if the Nets were like Philly. Go through a year of rebuilding (as Philly did) and than make a run at the playoffs the next year and the third year sign a big name free agent to make the commitment about being a serious championship contender. Hughes and Nocioni are not the answers to even making the playoffs. The Nets will still have a hard time. look the East is so much improved this year with Toronto get Jermaine and Philly getting Brand. Hughes and Nocioni wouldn't even get them to the playoffs. So I say if you want to make the playoffs this year go and get Josh Smith or Ron Artest. If you don't do that than just rebuild this year, get a high draft pick and win in 2009.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>does anyone else see it my way? It seems like everybody is for this trade, I'm just telling you aging declining players is more like the Sacramento Kings than the NJ Nets BTW just went over the 100th post mark.</div> Nice! You are getting sucked in! What you are saying has a lot of merit. Developing the young players, keeping maximum cap flexibility and collecting high draft picks are all good things and this trade affects all of them negatively. I would be cautiously excited if this trade happened because I think the positives outweigh the negatives, but it's definitely not a clear-cut thing.
I can't remember the last time where I saw a trade proposal that made sense for both sides. I tip my hat to you, Netted.
I don't like it. Hughes is terrible, and I don't think Noc is more than Najera+a jumper, which IMO isn't worth the extra cash left on his deal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 24 2008, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>because getting the eighth seed hurts in the long run with the draft. I personally say lose and rebuild unless they are serious about a championship or a deep run in the playoffs. I would like if the Nets were like Philly. Go through a year of rebuilding (as Philly did) and than make a run at the playoffs the next year and the third year sign a big name free agent to make the commitment about being a serious championship contender. Hughes and Nocioni are not the answers to even making the playoffs. The Nets will still have a hard time. look the East is so much improved this year with Toronto get Jermaine and Philly getting Brand. Hughes and Nocioni wouldn't even get them to the playoffs. So I say if you want to make the playoffs this year go and get Josh Smith or Ron Artest. If you don't do that than just rebuild this year, get a high draft pick and win in 2009.</div> Well, I understand the lose so you can get a high draft pick philosphy... just say that next time. Personally I can't see rooting a team to lose, but it's definitely another approach.
