We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jul 25 2008, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Can his rights be traded?</div> I don't think so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?"
Don't the Hawks still hold the rights to Childress for a couple more years with him playing in Europe? His salary doesn't count against their cap though right? EDIT: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3501488 <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Hawks would retain Childress' NBA rights, and he would remain a restricted free agent, if they make a qualifying offer each year, Babby said. That would count against their salary cap, though. If they don't, he'd become an unrestricted free agent.</div> Oh crap. So that means the Nets would have to make a 2.8 million qualifying offer each year. So 2.8 million cap hold.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Not sure how they come up with the number but if you look here you'll see $5.7mm for Nenad. It's an amount the league counts towards your cap for that player pending signings. When the Clips were trying to re-sign Brand they renounced Livingston and someone else to clear more space and up their offer. Once you renounce them they are unrestricted free agents and you no longer have bird rights. Philly has a $8.4mm cap hold on Iguodola, plus $2.9mm for some others. That money counts towards the cap and left them with only the $14mm they could give Brand even though they only had $33mm in committed salaries. In the end they can give Iguodala more than the $8.4mm, but that was what was on "hold" for him in the salary cap.
Is it good for the league to have RFAs go overseas, make an unlimited amount of money and hamstring their teams' caps until they become UFAs?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Not sure how they come up with the number but if you look here you'll see $5.7mm for Nenad. It's an amount the league counts towards your cap for that player pending signings. When the Clips were trying to re-sign Brand they renounced Livingston and someone else to clear more space and up their offer. Once you renounce them they are unrestricted free agents and you no longer have bird rights. Philly has a $8.4mm cap hold on Iguodola, plus $2.9mm for some others. That money counts towards the cap and left them with only the $14mm they could give Brand even though they only had $33mm in committed salaries. In the end they can give Iguodala more than the $8.4mm, but that was what was on "hold" for him in the salary cap. </div> Just to add a few more details. You can't enter a season with 4 max players on your team. So the league will add on assorted 'cap holds' to fill our your team pre-signings. Now these cap holds go beyond that as they can account for rookies (who are unsigned), players who are restricted, or players teams have bird rights for. They are in place to make the cap more legitimate. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Not sure how they come up with the number but if you look here you'll see $5.7mm for Nenad. It's an amount the league counts towards your cap for that player pending signings. When the Clips were trying to re-sign Brand they renounced Livingston and someone else to clear more space and up their offer. Once you renounce them they are unrestricted free agents and you no longer have bird rights. Philly has a $8.4mm cap hold on Iguodola, plus $2.9mm for some others. That money counts towards the cap and left them with only the $14mm they could give Brand even though they only had $33mm in committed salaries. In the end they can give Iguodala more than the $8.4mm, but that was what was on "hold" for him in the salary cap. </div> It sounds as if a team retains a player's rights when they go overseas, the "cap hold" could subject them to the luxury tax. Is that right?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Jul 25 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't the Hawks still hold the rights to Childress for a couple more years with him playing in Europe? His salary doesn't count against their cap though right? EDIT: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3501488 <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Hawks would retain Childress' NBA rights, and he would remain a restricted free agent, if they make a qualifying offer each year, Babby said. That would count against their salary cap, though. If they don't, he'd become an unrestricted free agent.</div> Oh crap. So that means the Nets would have to make a 2.8 million qualifying offer each year. So 2.8 million cap hold. </div> Nope. A cap hold is different than a qualifying offer. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#30 Look at the column called free agent amount The cap hold for Krstic is 300% of his last salary
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It sounds as if a team retains a player's rights when they go overseas, the "cap hold" could subject them to the luxury tax. Is that right?</div> Not sure how it impacts luxury tax. I know it eats into cap space.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Not sure how they come up with the number but if you look here you'll see $5.7mm for Nenad. It's an amount the league counts towards your cap for that player pending signings. When the Clips were trying to re-sign Brand they renounced Livingston and someone else to clear more space and up their offer. Once you renounce them they are unrestricted free agents and you no longer have bird rights. Philly has a $8.4mm cap hold on Iguodola, plus $2.9mm for some others. That money counts towards the cap and left them with only the $14mm they could give Brand even though they only had $33mm in committed salaries. In the end they can give Iguodala more than the $8.4mm, but that was what was on "hold" for him in the salary cap. </div> It sounds as if a team retains a player's rights when they go overseas, the "cap hold" could subject them to the luxury tax. Is that right? </div> No. I'll be back in a few and can give a more detailed answer
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SUPERB @ Jul 25 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i cant believe i am saying this but we may need that stiff.</div> Nets need to sign Kristic and hope that he can return to somewhat near pre-injury form--this is a team that has had troubles putting the ball in the hoop even with J-kidd's passes--yes Kristic is a soft player and a question mark health wise but he looks like the Nets best option at center--again dollars and not sense are prevailing here.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Cap holds are what prevents a team from signing other teams players with its cap space, and then signing its own free agents that are qualified for "Bird" or "Early Bird" treatment. Basically the free agent still counts against the teams cap at a certain rate until the team renounces their rights, or the player signs a new contract. The Clippers got into cap trouble this summer on this issue. In order to free up cap space to sign Baron Davis , they had renounce their "Bird" rights to Elton Brand (since Brand counted at 150% of his previous salary, he was tying up an additional $8M above his prior year salary of $16M).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fly75 @ Jul 26 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Cap holds are what prevents a team from signing other teams players with its cap space, and then signing its own free agents that are qualified for "Bird" or "Early Bird" treatment. Basically the free agent still counts against the teams cap at a certain rate until the team renounces their rights, or the player signs a new contract. The Clippers got into cap trouble this summer on this issue. In order to free up cap space to sign Baron Davis , they had renounce their "Bird" rights to Elton Brand (since Brand counted at 150% of his previous salary, he was tying up an additional $8M above his prior year salary of $16M). </div> so, to clarify, a cap hold kicks in when a player is a restricted free agent, or there is a team or player option to extend the contract for the following year. The point of the cap hold is to keep a team from "gaming" the system, by timing free agnect signings before resigning their own restricted free agents or exercising an option to extend a player's contract, thus allowing it to get around the salary cap (which teams could then do by signing all their players to one-year deals with a series of option years thereafter). The question remains, though, whether a "cap hold" could cause a team to go over the luxury tax threshold . . . this would be an issue if a "cap hold" remains on the books if a RFA bolts to Europe for a season. Fly? Also, does a "cap hold" go into effect if a team holds the rights to an unsigned player (such as Christian Drejer)? At, for example, the league minimum salary?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 26 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fly75 @ Jul 26 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 25 2008, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 25 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We retain his rights so if he goes over there for a couple years and gets back into form we have first crack at him in the future. It gets tricky because we'd have to not relinquish our rights and his cap hold will be $5.7mm. Would be nice insurance in case Yi, Lopez, and Anderson don't develop well.</div> could you explain the concept of "cap hold?" </div> Cap holds are what prevents a team from signing other teams players with its cap space, and then signing its own free agents that are qualified for "Bird" or "Early Bird" treatment. Basically the free agent still counts against the teams cap at a certain rate until the team renounces their rights, or the player signs a new contract. The Clippers got into cap trouble this summer on this issue. In order to free up cap space to sign Baron Davis , they had renounce their "Bird" rights to Elton Brand (since Brand counted at 150% of his previous salary, he was tying up an additional $8M above his prior year salary of $16M). </div> so, to clarify, a cap hold kicks in when a player is a restricted free agent, or there is a team or player option to extend the contract for the following year. The point of the cap hold is to keep a team from "gaming" the system, by timing free agnect signings before resigning their own restricted free agents or exercising an option to extend a player's contract, thus allowing it to get around the salary cap (which teams could then do by signing all their players to one-year deals with a series of option years thereafter). The question remains, though, whether a "cap hold" could cause a team to go over the luxury tax threshold . . . this would be an issue if a "cap hold" remains on the books if a RFA bolts to Europe for a season. Fly? Also, does a "cap hold" go into effect if a team holds the rights to an unsigned player (such as Christian Drejer)? At, for example, the league minimum salary? </div> Cap holds exists for all free agents of a team. For example, the Nets also had a cap hold for Boki. Cap holds are not counted towards luxury tax calculations. For example, the Mavs had a huge cap hold for KVH all last year, but even if they hadn't S&T'd him, his cap hold would not have any impact on the Mavs luxury tax. To summarize: To calculate if a team is under the salary cap, the cap holds of all unrenounced free agents (both restricted and unrestricted) and unsigned 1st round draft picks are included. To calculate team salary for luxury tax purposes, only the contracts of the players on the team (including those who were waived) on the final day of the regular season are included in team salaries.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 26 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, does a "cap hold" go into effect if a team holds the rights to an unsigned player (such as Christian Drejer)? At, for example, the league minimum salary?</div> Forgot about this part of the question For players like Drejer, all a team has to do is make a tender offer to retain their rights if they aren't under contract on July 1. Since you have a legal background, here are the details http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-X.php#section5
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 26 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 26 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, does a "cap hold" go into effect if a team holds the rights to an unsigned player (such as Christian Drejer)? At, for example, the league minimum salary?</div> Forgot about this part of the question For players like Drejer, all a team has to do is make a tender offer to retain their rights if they aren't under contract on July 1. Since you have a legal background, here are the details http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-X.php#section5 </div> thanks . . . on a quick skim it doesn't seem to discuss the cap hold issue. . . .
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 27 2008, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 26 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 26 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, does a "cap hold" go into effect if a team holds the rights to an unsigned player (such as Christian Drejer)? At, for example, the league minimum salary?</div> Forgot about this part of the question For players like Drejer, all a team has to do is make a tender offer to retain their rights if they aren't under contract on July 1. Since you have a legal background, here are the details http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-X.php#section5 </div> thanks . . . on a quick skim it doesn't seem to discuss the cap hold issue. . . . </div> That is in a different section. I only gave you the part for the Drejer's of the world. http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_4.php - Team Salary (non-tax) http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_12.php - Tax stuff (how team salary is determined is towards the end)
