you make me laugh comparing JO to Oden and Bynum. Oden and Bynum have a lot less wear and tear that they've gone through as they've only been in the league for a couple seasons (or in oden's case, zero). JO has had knee problems since 2002 and while his production has been steady for a couple years, his production in the last couple years hardly warrants him being tagged "a good secondary player". He hasn't played in more than 70 games since the 03-04 season and as I mentioned before, his offense is hardly one that can be called 'effective' (shooting 43% as a PF/C). I'd say he's a pretty good defensive player at best - but that as well will be better suited for his real-life scenario playing next to Bosh as JO is much more effective as a help weak-side defender in the post - plus, it's not like Wilcox is a great defender that can help much so JO on his gimpy knee is gonna have to battle the likes of Amare and Elton. and in regards to how the Cavs in real-life don't have anyone in terms of a playmaker for Bron, look at where that gets them - i wouldn't put the Cavs in the top 8 teams in the league. So i guess if your aspirations are around that, I guess your team is fine.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im not saying that the Cavs do have a pure point gaurd, but (through my limited knowledge) Eric Gordon is a shooter, who shoots first, and his primary position is a Shooting Gaurd. Delonte is not a pure point gaurd, but at the same time he isnt a shooting gaurd, he does average 4.5 assits in cleveland. In addition Eric Gordon is a rookie, and now he has to adjust to being a PG, he needs to setup the offense. I do understand that Lebron can play Point Gaurd, but it will be hell easier if he had a pure pg who could pass him the ball so that he doesnt need to play so much ISO. Rather than depending on lebron to pass the ball whenever he is doubled, Lebron should be able to recieve a pass via a play. The problem with JO is more his health than his performace I guess. You are right, by saying he is still capapble of putting up numbers, but his health is still a great concern, despite that he is still a great peice along side LBJ.</div> First off, Delonte West isn't their starting PG when Daniel Gibson was healthy, and Gibson was never a PG in college either. Gibson was a bonafide undersized SG, while Eric Gordon has much more size and talent than Gibson. Another comparison is Randy Foye to Eric Gordon, both were SG's in college but they obviously have PG skills. Eric Gordon also wasn't playing guys like LeBron or Mike Miller, who could finish consistently off kickouts or dishes under the hoop. Eric Gordon is also a good offensive talent player, so why on earth do you not think he would be able to create for himself? Of course LeBron won't be having ISO's all the time when he has Gordon, Mike Miller, and JO. Mike Miller is also good at finding open players and has shown he can be a good compliment player the last few years. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (syc514 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you make me laugh comparing JO to Oden and Bynum. Oden and Bynum have a lot less wear and tear that they've gone through as they've only been in the league for a couple seasons (or in oden's case, zero). JO has had knee problems since 2002 and while his production has been steady for a couple years, his production in the last couple years hardly warrants him being tagged "a good secondary player". He hasn't played in more than 70 games since the 03-04 season and as I mentioned before, his offense is hardly one that can be called 'effective' (shooting 43% as a PF/C). I'd say he's a pretty good defensive player at best - but that as well will be better suited for his real-life scenario playing next to Bosh as JO is much more effective as a help weak-side defender in the post - plus, it's not like Wilcox is a great defender that can help much so JO on his gimpy knee is gonna have to battle the likes of Amare and Elton. and in regards to how the Cavs in real-life don't have anyone in terms of a playmaker for Bron, look at where that gets them - i wouldn't put the Cavs in the top 8 teams in the league. So i guess if your aspirations are around that, I guess your team is fine.</div> Are you kidding me? The only player that has comeback from arthroscopic knee surgery and been the same player was Amare Stoudemire. It doesn't matter how much wear and tear you've had, that is a serious surgery, especially if you don't know how to use your body yet and depend on athleticism. Oden has been having injury problems the last few years now too with his wrist problems and knee problems and he also has back problems. JO has been able to perform when he has played, and always would be ready for the playoffs. Last year his stats were horrible because he wanted to help his team win and tried to comeback too soon. When he realized he was hurting his team, he shut it down to get healthy. Everyone is a risk to injury, so pointing out one player is unfair because I know Yao, T-Mac, Artest, etc. all have missed quite a few games the last few years too and no one is concerned about them. Comparing my team to the real life Cavs is just silly. The Cavs haven't given LeBron anything around him except an aging Big Z and King James still got them to the finals. Of course the Cavs aren't a top 8 team because they don't have any other real scorer outside of LeBron. That's the reason he does so much ISO is because they don't have another scorer around LeBron, let alone have several options for him to pass too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 8 2008, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Many players have come back from artho, I think you meant micro-fracture.</div> Yeah, it's all the same
Jason Kidd had two excellent seasons after having microfracture surgery in his 30s. Even after that, he's been productive. He's now in free fall, but that's normal for someone his age who played so many minutes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Aug 8 2008, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hang me PG-Deron Williams SG-Paul Pierce SF-Jason Kapono C-Mehmet Okur</div> Is there enough ball for Deron and Pierce? There's certainly a couple of shooters on the wings to kick the ball out to. Does Williams need a quality big to play pick and roll with? Talent-wise, tremendous, IMO.
I certainly think that if Paul Pierce can play with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, he can certianly play with Deron Williams. That's just me though.
I'm not being critical of your team. I'm more interested in asking how you see point forward Pierce who needs the ball a lot at the top of the key to manufacture and dish fitting in with Deron Williams who also dominates the ball in the same place on the floor. Williams is no Rondo, where you can take the ball out of his hands for long stretches when the team needs it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Aug 9 2008, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd had two excellent seasons after having microfracture surgery in his 30s. Even after that, he's been productive. He's now in free fall, but that's normal for someone his age who played so many minutes.</div> Its widely noted that its harder for bigmen who suffer from microfracture surgery to comeback from that injury and be productive(or stay on track). Why? Im not really sure, but of course there are exeptions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J_Ray @ Aug 9 2008, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im not saying that the Cavs do have a pure point gaurd, but (through my limited knowledge) Eric Gordon is a shooter, who shoots first, and his primary position is a Shooting Gaurd. Delonte is not a pure point gaurd, but at the same time he isnt a shooting gaurd, he does average 4.5 assits in cleveland. In addition Eric Gordon is a rookie, and now he has to adjust to being a PG, he needs to setup the offense. I do understand that Lebron can play Point Gaurd, but it will be hell easier if he had a pure pg who could pass him the ball so that he doesnt need to play so much ISO. Rather than depending on lebron to pass the ball whenever he is doubled, Lebron should be able to recieve a pass via a play. The problem with JO is more his health than his performace I guess. You are right, by saying he is still capapble of putting up numbers, but his health is still a great concern, despite that he is still a great peice along side LBJ.</div> First off, Delonte West isn't their starting PG when Daniel Gibson was healthy, and Gibson was never a PG in college either. Gibson was a bonafide undersized SG, while Eric Gordon has much more size and talent than Gibson. Another comparison is Randy Foye to Eric Gordon, both were SG's in college but they obviously have PG skills. Eric Gordon also wasn't playing guys like LeBron or Mike Miller, who could finish consistently off kickouts or dishes under the hoop. Eric Gordon is also a good offensive talent player, so why on earth do you not think he would be able to create for himself? Of course LeBron won't be having ISO's all the time when he has Gordon, Mike Miller, and JO. Mike Miller is also good at finding open players and has shown he can be a good compliment player the last few years. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (syc514 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you make me laugh comparing JO to Oden and Bynum. Oden and Bynum have a lot less wear and tear that they've gone through as they've only been in the league for a couple seasons (or in oden's case, zero). JO has had knee problems since 2002 and while his production has been steady for a couple years, his production in the last couple years hardly warrants him being tagged "a good secondary player". He hasn't played in more than 70 games since the 03-04 season and as I mentioned before, his offense is hardly one that can be called 'effective' (shooting 43% as a PF/C). I'd say he's a pretty good defensive player at best - but that as well will be better suited for his real-life scenario playing next to Bosh as JO is much more effective as a help weak-side defender in the post - plus, it's not like Wilcox is a great defender that can help much so JO on his gimpy knee is gonna have to battle the likes of Amare and Elton. and in regards to how the Cavs in real-life don't have anyone in terms of a playmaker for Bron, look at where that gets them - i wouldn't put the Cavs in the top 8 teams in the league. So i guess if your aspirations are around that, I guess your team is fine.</div> Are you kidding me? The only player that has comeback from arthroscopic knee surgery and been the same player was Amare Stoudemire. It doesn't matter how much wear and tear you've had, that is a serious surgery, especially if you don't know how to use your body yet and depend on athleticism. Oden has been having injury problems the last few years now too with his wrist problems and knee problems and he also has back problems. JO has been able to perform when he has played, and always would be ready for the playoffs. Last year his stats were horrible because he wanted to help his team win and tried to comeback too soon. When he realized he was hurting his team, he shut it down to get healthy. Everyone is a risk to injury, so pointing out one player is unfair because I know Yao, T-Mac, Artest, etc. all have missed quite a few games the last few years too and no one is concerned about them. Comparing my team to the real life Cavs is just silly. The Cavs haven't given LeBron anything around him except an aging Big Z and King James still got them to the finals. Of course the Cavs aren't a top 8 team because they don't have any other real scorer outside of LeBron. That's the reason he does so much ISO is because they don't have another scorer around LeBron, let alone have several options for him to pass too. </div> Honestly, I dont watch college basketball, so I dont know much about Eric Gordon, but people compared him to a rich man's ben gordon, and also through the clips i saw of him, he did look like a primary shooter rather than a distributor. I think we would both need to see him play at a nba level before we can judge how he would compliment LBJ. With that said, I would pick Derek Fisher a proven winner, over Eric Gordon. BUT. by no means am I saying your team sucks, I do acctually think your team has the talent to win big.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 8 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Aug 9 2008, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd had two excellent seasons after having microfracture surgery in his 30s. Even after that, he's been productive. He's now in free fall, but that's normal for someone his age who played so many minutes.</div> Its widely noted that its harder for bigmen who suffer from microfracture surgery to comeback from that injury and be productive(or stay on tract). Why? Im not really sure, but of course there are exeptions. </div> Less weight on the knees. Usually the big men that need it lose explosiveness, whereas a guard like Jason Kidd who doesn't rely on athleticism can come back.
My starters are set: PG Arenas SG Brewer C Dalembert PF Lee SF Iggy All 5 score 10PPG+ 3 shoot 50%+, 2 over ~55% Hustle player in Lee Two guys near 10 RPG Shot blocking in Dalembert 3 quality defenders, 4th borderline very good (Lee) Two players who are the goto guys on their team One superstar.
lol Denny your one flaw is mentioning the words "Point Forward" earlier....HE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED will be creeping back because of that.. lol
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Aug 8 2008, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd had two excellent seasons after having microfracture surgery in his 30s. Even after that, he's been productive. He's now in free fall, but that's normal for someone his age who played so many minutes.</div> Kidd didn't depend on his athleticism because he is a fundamentally sounds player that uses his head rather than trying to jump over everyone. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 8 2008, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Honestly, I dont watch college basketball, so I dont know much about Eric Gordon, but people compared him to a rich man's ben gordon, and also through the clips i saw of him, he did look like a primary shooter rather than a distributor. I think we would both need to see him play at a nba level before we can judge how he would compliment LBJ. With that said, I would pick Derek Fisher a proven winner, over Eric Gordon. BUT. by no means am I saying your team sucks, I do acctually think your team has the talent to win big.</div> I love college hoops and in the beginning of the year, I actually believe Gordon was in contention to go #1 but after his coaching change and wrist injury, his stock went down hill. I actually thought he looked more like a possible Dwayne Wade like talent rather than Ben Gordon, and he also is very clutch. When he went head to head with Derrick Rose during AAU & last year on ESPN, he actually owned Derrick Rose. Derrick Rose and Bayless both went much higher in this draft based off potential, but Eric Gordon was just as consistent, if not better than them, during the year. I don't understand how come no one is bashing Bayless playing PG with Roy when Gordon and Bayless are practically the same mindset on offense. There also is no way Roy is a better creator/playmaker than LeBron. Eric Gordon would be hyped much more if he didn't get shut down with his hamstring injury in summer league. I also got 7 more picks, so I'm sure I will still get a playmaker PG that runs the offense too, for all I know Gordon could be a combo guard off the bench.
I posted this in the wrong thread earlier, in regards to the Foye comparison, so I'll post it here now. Randy Foye also played a decent amount of the point at Nova, he was the primary point if Lowry was not on the floor. Gordon rarely saw action at the 1.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 8 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I posted this in the wrong thread earlier, in regards to the Foye comparison, so I'll post it here now. Randy Foye also played a decent amount of the point at Nova, he was the primary point if Lowry was not on the floor. Gordon rarely saw action at the 1.</div> How much did you watch that Supernova team? They had 4 guards and 1 post player, so it's much different. I recall Mike Nardi playing PG when Lowry went out too, but they had more than 1 PG/ballhandler on the floor at a time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 8 2008, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dino33 @ Aug 8 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Aug 9 2008, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd had two excellent seasons after having microfracture surgery in his 30s. Even after that, he's been productive. He's now in free fall, but that's normal for someone his age who played so many minutes.</div> Its widely noted that its harder for bigmen who suffer from microfracture surgery to comeback from that injury and be productive(or stay on tract). Why? Im not really sure, but of course there are exeptions. </div> Less weight on the knees. Usually the big men that need it lose explosiveness, whereas a guard like Jason Kidd who doesn't rely on athleticism can come back. </div> Kenyon Martin looked very good last year as far as his athleticism. He got a lot of his quickness off the floor back. He might turn out to be an exception to this exception.
I posted this in the other thread when I took Kenyon: his scoring average and FG% actually increased as the year went on last season. That's a good sign if you ask me.
