Actually, let me put it another way For starters, the amendments trump the main body of the document. And you can't make sense of things by using sentences from one part and from a very different part on the face of it. "A well regulated militia..." and Freedom of assembly don't mix, or we'd have a lot of armed assemblies
The funny thing is that as a Hamiltonian, I'm against term limits for the Presidency to begin with. How's my Devil's Advocacy going?
Ha I am no fan of Hamilton. First thing he did after the constitution was done was centralize the banks. I am completely for term limits at every level of govt.
If Hamilton hadn't centralized the banks, the country would've fallen apart within its first two decades at the latest.
Nah Since Hamilton centralized the banks, the bankers got rich and keep being rich, and get bailouts when they screw up Plus, it's a huge power grab for a system that supposedly is a weak central govt.
The central government wasn't intended to be weak - except under the unworkable Articles of Confederation. It was intended to be paramount, but only within the enumerated powers granted to it by the Constitution. Limited, not weak.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Aug 7 2008, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hillary wants me!</div> Wants you to what? Get me a freakin cheeseburger?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 8 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where is the enumerated power to create the central bank?</div> C'mon, I know you've read <u>McCulloch v. Maryland</u>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 8 2008, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where is the enumerated power to create the central bank?</div> The Fed was created in 1913 during Woodrow Wilson's 1st term. I have already stated how much the chapter on WW in Liberal Fascism disturbed me. Now, I'm afraid to protest too much lest the black helicopters come to take me away. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas Jefferson)</div><div class='quotemain'>I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AEM @ Aug 8 2008, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 8 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where is the enumerated power to create the central bank?</div> C'mon, I know you've read <u>McCulloch v. Maryland</u> </div> The whole "implied powers" line of reasoning is a nifty way to get around doing things constitutionally. It was the beginning of the end of the ultimate experiment in democracy, and look at us 200 years later! $3T budgets, entitlement programs, moronic government interference in just about everything... Thoth's quote from Jefferson, one of the original Liberals/Libertarians, is spot on. But he's not up to snuff on the first bank of the US (or the 2nd...)
I do know TJ wanted to create a pastroral/agricultural society and lost out to Hamilton who wanted the new nation to be more industrial/commercial. So, how ironic is it that Jefferson appears on any money at all?
I don't know that Jefferson solely wanted an agricultural society, but ag was his interest no doubt. I would say that he didn't like the idea of the northern states using government to further their pocketbooks while taxing the south to pay for it. Hamilton was in love with the way the English did things and really was in love with the idea of big government here. Interestingly, at the time, there were three factions of people in the USA - those who wanted to side with England in its war against France, those who wanted to side with France, and the Washington/Adams faction that wanted to remain neutral.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Aug 8 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 8 2008, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where is the enumerated power to create the central bank?</div> The Fed was created in 1913 during Woodrow Wilson's 1st term. I have already stated how much the chapter on WW in Liberal Fascism disturbed me. Now, I'm afraid to protest too much lest the black helicopters come to take me away. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas Jefferson)</div><div class='quotemain'>I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.</div> </div> I prefer Brandeis' comment about bankers: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The goose that lays golden eggs has been considered a most valuable possession. But even more profitable is the privilege of taking the golden eggs laid by somebody else’s goose. The investment bankers and their associates now enjoy that privilege. They control the people through the people’s own money…. The fetters which bind the people are forged from the people’s own gold.</div> The Works of Justice Brandeis at 146-47
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 8 2008, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know that Jefferson solely wanted an agricultural society, but ag was his interest no doubt. I would say that he didn't like the idea of the northern states using government to further their pocketbooks while taxing the south to pay for it. Hamilton was in love with the way the English did things and really was in love with the idea of big government here. Interestingly, at the time, there were three factions of people in the USA - those who wanted to side with England in its war against France, those who wanted to side with France, and the Washington/Adams faction that wanted to remain neutral.</div> Hamilton wanted neutrality in that war. The Pacificus letters were an excellent explanation why. Hamilton's views on England itself were an interesting phenomenon, and changed significantly when it suited him to do so. As for Jefferson and implied powers, the Louisiana Purchase tends to imply that he was malleable on the subject when he had to face it on a practical level.
Off the top of my head, I don't think it was to be an exclusively agricultural rather a majority of the nation would be that way. Jefferson was a product of the age of enlightenment and hence a fairly ration person. He IMO saw the dangers of being too industrial. It could be said "implied powers" allowed TJ make the Louisiana Purchase. edit- AEM beat me to the punch on the LP. Then, there is the whole slavery conundrum.
Returning to McCulloch for a moment, it's worth pointing out that John Marshall was the greatest of the relatively few Hamiltonians to sit on the Supreme Court, and heavily utilized Hamilton's reasoning (and actual words) in his most influential decisions. [According to Staab, the only other Hamiltonians to sit on the Court were Chief Justices Taft and Burger, and Justice Scalia - though the last has moved considerably towards a Madisonian view in many instances]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Aug 9 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Off the top of my head, I don't think it was to be an exclusively agricultural rather a majority of the nation would be that way. Jefferson was a product of the age of enlightenment and hence a fairly ration person. He IMO saw the dangers of being too industrial. It could be said "implied powers" allowed TJ make the Louisiana Purchase.</div> Implied powers were indeed how he made the Purchase - for which Hamilton backed him, despite Federalist party opposition to it for obvious reasons. Jefferson himself wasn't entirely rational on the subject of agriculture versus industry though. If anything, he was rather provincial in that respect.
