I can't believe someone is actually comparing Carter to Kobe. That's absolutely hilarious...and not in a good way. Kobe is the best player in the world. Period.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 5 2008, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jirohkanzaki @ Aug 4 2008, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>vince carter practically mirrored kobe's stats last year except for ppg...but that's because kobe took more shots per game than vc...and also, vc did it on a bum ankle... kobe gives more EFFORT on the defensive end than carter...i don't think kobe is that good a defensive player...tell me who is that offensive player kobe had stopped in a game? i even remember some mexican guy crossing him over and repeatedly getting by him in the world championships...he is no mj nor scottie pippen on defense that's for sure... kobe has the killer instinct lacking in carter vc is the better passer and rebounder kobe is selfish...vc's shot selection is horrendous at times... i think their games would be complementary if they played on one team...</div> Kobe doesn't stop people in games because he has to focus on offense. On Team USA, Kobe's the best defender. Ask anyone on the team. Ask Carlos Boozer, he'll tell you. Boozer said Kobe is the best defender on Team USA. I've watched Kobe get assigned to guard the opposing team's best scorer late in the game many times, and succeed. Do I think he's the best defender in the league? Hell no. Did he deserve the All-Defensive First Team selection last year? I've watched pretty much every single one of his games, and I'd say no way. Someone like Shane Battier definitely deserved it over Kobe, but when he's focused, and when he wants to, Kobe can play some of the tougher defenses in the league I didn't watch a lot of the Olympic games last year so I can't really comment on the Mexican guy, although I can say I saw his crossover. Pretty sick move, but it's only one play. I'm sure MJ or Pippen didn't lock down every single player they faced either (btw, I'm not comparing Kobe's defense to that of MJ's or Pippen's, obviously they were better). Also, VC's bum knee is no excuse. Ever since the Allstar Break, Kobe played with a broken pinkie that required surgery, but that didn't stop him from leading the Lakers to the Finals. To put it into perspective, Lebron James sprained his pinkie and sat out a week. Kobe didn't miss a game. And no Kobe is not selfish. Maybe a couple of years ago yes, but not anymore. He has more trust in his teammates now and doesn't go into shot jacking mode like he did in the 2004 Finals against Detroit. </div> fair enough...i'm not saying vc is better than kobe or even kobe's equal...i was just comparing their games...everyone knows kobe is the best player in the nba. ...and good point about kobe playing with a broken finger (i missed that) which he is STILL playing with up to now...but i would argue an ankle would be more important than a pinkie in basketball. kobe is not as selfish as he was before but will still get bouts of it from time to time...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Joker @ Aug 5 2008, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I can't believe someone is actually comparing Carter to Kobe. That's absolutely hilarious...and not in a good way. Kobe is the best player in the world. Period.</div> kobe IS the best player in the world. <- period but kobe gets compared to mj all the time...mj is the best EVER to play the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Aug 4 2008, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 4 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Would that made shot protect him from the numerous injuries he had the next 3-4 seasons? VC's fall from grace didn't happen because of that missed shot. It was his inability to replicate that level of performance at any other point in his career that did.</div> Maybe they could have signed some better players? lol Just looking at the stats, the Raptors had a pretty pathetic roster, even though they practically beat Phili and probably would have beaten the Bucks. Top 8 players: 1. Vince Carter - 27.6 ppg 46% FG%, 41%, 3FG%, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg, 2.2 TOpg. 2. Antonio Davis - 32 year old 6-9 PF playing center shooting 43%, playing 36 mpg. 3. Alvin Williams - starting point guard 9.8 ppg on 43% FG%, and 30.6% 3 point%, 5 apg. 4. Charles Oakley - 37 year old shooting 38.8% FG% for a PF!!!! starting and playing 36 mpg. 5. Morris Peterson - rookie SG, playing 22 mpg. 6. Keon Clark - boozes up and dissappears from the league like 3-4 years later 7. Dell Curry - role player shooting 42.4% FG% 8. Tracy Murray - 5.4 ppg decent 3 point shooter, 36% from 3, but only 39.9% FG% Sidenote: I'm curious any players putting up the same ppg, rpg, and apg with as much efficiency in FG%, 3FG%, and TOpg. (2.2 TOpg is pretty low) </div> That's a bit of an oversimplification IMO. That roster was built to complement a superstar player like VC. There's no denying Carter carried the team, but he he was able to save himself for the offensive end because he was surrounded with very good defenders and complementary players. Antonio Davis was one of the better rebounders in the league and always stepped up in the playoffs (he averaged 17 and 10 on 45% shooting in those playoffs). Oakley stuck it to opposing teams and made sure they didn't cheapshot Carter (something he had to deal with constantly when they dealt Oak). Alvin averaged 12 and 6 that year, but no one's assist numbers were ever going to be very high when the offense was designed to isolate Vince. His defense was where his impact was felt. I look at that roster as a better version of what the Cavs have tried to do with Lebron: tough veterans and defensively-oriented role players that allowed the superstar to do what he did best. The Sixers team we lost to was built the same way. The problem arose when we overpaid to keep those players after one promising playoff run.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Aug 4 2008, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 4 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Would that made shot protect him from the numerous injuries he had the next 3-4 seasons? VC's fall from grace didn't happen because of that missed shot. It was his inability to replicate that level of performance at any other point in his career that did.</div> Maybe they could have signed some better players? lol Just looking at the stats, the Raptors had a pretty pathetic roster, even though they practically beat Phili and probably would have beaten the Bucks. Top 8 players: 1. Vince Carter - 27.6 ppg 46% FG%, 41%, 3FG%, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg, 2.2 TOpg. 2. Antonio Davis - 32 year old 6-9 PF playing center shooting 43%, playing 36 mpg. 3. Alvin Williams - starting point guard 9.8 ppg on 43% FG%, and 30.6% 3 point%, 5 apg. 4. Charles Oakley - 37 year old shooting 38.8% FG% for a PF!!!! starting and playing 36 mpg. 5. Morris Peterson - rookie SG, playing 22 mpg. 6. Keon Clark - boozes up and dissappears from the league like 3-4 years later 7. Dell Curry - role player shooting 42.4% FG% 8. Tracy Murray - 5.4 ppg decent 3 point shooter, 36% from 3, but only 39.9% FG% Sidenote: I'm curious any players putting up the same ppg, rpg, and apg with as much efficiency in FG%, 3FG%, and TOpg. (2.2 TOpg is pretty low) </div> That's a bit of an oversimplification IMO. That roster was built to complement a superstar player like VC. There's no denying Carter carried the team, but he he was able to save himself for the offensive end because he was surrounded with very good defenders and complementary players. Antonio Davis was one of the better rebounders in the league and always stepped up in the playoffs (he averaged 17 and 10 on 45% shooting in those playoffs). Oakley stuck it to opposing teams and made sure they didn't cheapshot Carter (something he had to deal with constantly when they dealt Oak). Alvin averaged 12 and 6 that year, but no one's assist numbers were ever going to be very high when the offense was designed to isolate Vince. His defense was where his impact was felt. I look at that roster as a better version of what the Cavs have tried to do with Lebron: tough veterans and defensively-oriented role players that allowed the superstar to do what he did best. The Sixers team we lost to was built the same way. The problem arose when we overpaid to keep those players after one promising playoff run. </div> If it's better than the Cavs roster, which players would you take over who: Big Z or Antonio Davis at center? Ben Wallace or Charles Oakley at PF? Wally Szcerbiak or rookie Mo Pete at SG/SF? Delonte West or Alvin Williams? (Williams gets .5 more apg, but shoots 31% from 3 as opposed to 35.6% from Delonte) Varajao or Keon Clark? Daniel Gibson or Tracy Murray? Devin Brown or Michael Curry? Or look at the current Raptors roster, would you trade anyone from the 2007-08 team for anyone from the 2000 team? Antonio Davis for JO? Charles Oakley for Andrea Bargnani? Anthony Parker for rookie Mo Pete? Jose Calderon for Alivin Williams? Moon for Keon Clark? Jason Kapono for Tracy Murray? Joey Graham or Michael Curry? http://www.nba.com/raptors/stats/2007/index.html I would also bet that there has never been a combination of two starters at PF and C, playing at least 35 mpg in the last 30 years that shot 38.8% and 43%.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Aug 5 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would also bet that there has never been a combination of two starters at PF and C, playing at least 35 mpg in the last 30 years that shot 38.8% and 43%.</div> I would think the Collins/Boone starting combo was in that area... or worse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 5 2008, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Aug 4 2008, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Aug 4 2008, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Would that made shot protect him from the numerous injuries he had the next 3-4 seasons? VC's fall from grace didn't happen because of that missed shot. It was his inability to replicate that level of performance at any other point in his career that did.</div> Maybe they could have signed some better players? lol Just looking at the stats, the Raptors had a pretty pathetic roster, even though they practically beat Phili and probably would have beaten the Bucks. Top 8 players: 1. Vince Carter - 27.6 ppg 46% FG%, 41%, 3FG%, 5.5 rpg, 3.9 apg, 2.2 TOpg. 2. Antonio Davis - 32 year old 6-9 PF playing center shooting 43%, playing 36 mpg. 3. Alvin Williams - starting point guard 9.8 ppg on 43% FG%, and 30.6% 3 point%, 5 apg. 4. Charles Oakley - 37 year old shooting 38.8% FG% for a PF!!!! starting and playing 36 mpg. 5. Morris Peterson - rookie SG, playing 22 mpg. 6. Keon Clark - boozes up and dissappears from the league like 3-4 years later 7. Dell Curry - role player shooting 42.4% FG% 8. Tracy Murray - 5.4 ppg decent 3 point shooter, 36% from 3, but only 39.9% FG% Sidenote: I'm curious any players putting up the same ppg, rpg, and apg with as much efficiency in FG%, 3FG%, and TOpg. (2.2 TOpg is pretty low) </div> That's a bit of an oversimplification IMO. That roster was built to complement a superstar player like VC. There's no denying Carter carried the team, but he he was able to save himself for the offensive end because he was surrounded with very good defenders and complementary players. Antonio Davis was one of the better rebounders in the league and always stepped up in the playoffs (he averaged 17 and 10 on 45% shooting in those playoffs). Oakley stuck it to opposing teams and made sure they didn't cheapshot Carter (something he had to deal with constantly when they dealt Oak). Alvin averaged 12 and 6 that year, but no one's assist numbers were ever going to be very high when the offense was designed to isolate Vince. His defense was where his impact was felt. I look at that roster as a better version of what the Cavs have tried to do with Lebron: tough veterans and defensively-oriented role players that allowed the superstar to do what he did best. The Sixers team we lost to was built the same way. The problem arose when we overpaid to keep those players after one promising playoff run. </div> You forgot to add something else about Oakley. He called Carter out --> Be an F'en Star and lead this team. Kobe, Lebron or MJ dont need people to do that. They are self-motivated.
if you must know, kobe is vince with a killer instinct. carter is more athletically gifted than kobe. if carter had the killer instinct, he would be better than kobe. after 10 years of vince's career, you would think people would have gotten that by now...but they keep getting mad at vince for not being like kobe.....see how far that gets ya. hes not and never has been like kobe or jordan so stop the comparisons and stop saying "what if..."
Interesting VC Fact: The day VC missed that shot vs the 76rers to go to the Conference Finals, VC made the same shot 12 times in a row at the 76ers gym that night. Thats so crazy. If you made that shot, he wouldn't be in Jersey.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Aug 5 2008, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You forgot to add something else about Oakley. He called Carter out --> Be an F'en Star and lead this team. Kobe, Lebron or MJ dont need people to do that. They are self-motivated.</div> I guess you never read Phil Jackson's book where he rips Kobe a new one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaxaMillion711 @ Aug 5 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>if you must know, kobe is vince with a killer instinct. carter is more athletically gifted than kobe. if carter had the killer instinct, he would be better than kobe. after 10 years of vince's career, you would think people would have gotten that by now...but they keep getting mad at vince for not being like kobe.....see how far that gets ya. hes not and never has been like kobe or jordan so stop the comparisons and stop saying "what if..."</div> Wait a minute. What about the defense? What about the wanting to take over a game? VC is no where close to Kobe.
When 2010 hits not only do we get Lebron James but also Shaq. He would be 39 by then and his contract runs out by 2010. Since he was born and raised from the area would he play 10- 15 minutes for us and win 1 more championship. PG Harris/ Dooling/ Draft Pick SG Carter/ CDR/ Free Agent SF James/ Najara/ Draft Pick PF Yi/ Boone/ S. Williams/ Anderson C Lopez/ Shaq
I'd have some reservations about spending the MLE on Shaq now, so I probably won't be interested in him in 2 years. At the rate he's been going at, he'll be lucky to play 40 games
