Source: Yahoo Sports I wonder if this was the deal Riley was babbling about a few weeks ago. He mentioned he wanted to shake things up before the preseason. This would have been a major shakeup. The only team who seems interested in Gordon is Miami, so maybe something comes out of it. Would you have been in favor of this trade? Marion & Banks for Gordon, Hughes & Noah
At least they get out from Hughes monster paydays. But Banks is pretty much nothing, and Marion is getting old. I think it would be a bad trade for the Bulls.
It has been interesting that this story has just broke big in the mainstream media. I have a bit of a chronicle of it on my site here. From the original breaking of Miami being a team interested, to the Bulls/Heat trade falling through in early August, to Dwyane Wade going bowling with Gordon, to today's Yahoo Report. I just pray Paxson isn't this dumb. It is a decent sign and trade and the surface. But Paxson has to have some foresight here, and look where he would be sending Gordon (actually, I think he is, which is why this trade has fell through). Gordon/Wade/Beasley would be the best offensive trio in the league imo. That team, with role players on the vet minimum / MLE's might be good enough to win a championship in it's own right. But when you look at what their 2010 salary would be, you have to start getting scared. Dwyane Wade - 17.149 million Ben Gordon - 10.211 million (if he's on a $70 million / 6 year deal) Michael Beasley - 4.962 million They would have only 3 guys under contract. That's it. Jones, Cook, and Superintendent Chalmers all have option years too. So at their best, with an estimated $64 million cap, Miami could have a maximum of $27.421 million in capspace. So the Heat could theoretically offer Lebron James $100 million over 5 years, and Tyson Chandler $63 million over 5 years. They would have a starting lineup of G- Ben Gordon G- Dwyane Wade SF- Lebron James PF- Michael Beasley C- Tyson Chandler Then it is just a matter of attracting guys on the vet minimum with a starting 5 of that. I hope Paxson looks at what type of flexibility Miami would still have before he makes any such trade.
Bulls and Heat Agree on Trade LINK Say goodbye to Ben. If Bulls/Heat have already agreed on a trade, and Miami is offering Ben more than the Bulls, it's over. It was a nice ride with Ben, but a very greedy owner wouldn't allow it. (There is no way that Paxson would do this trade, over just upping Gordon's offer and resigning him to the Bulls). Thursday seems like a good trade day...so I'll say Gordon's a Heat by Thursday. We'll get to watch plenty of Gordon though. By the time the Bulls are eliminated (they ain't making it past the first round, if even making the playoffs), we'll get to watch the Heat go deep into the post season every season. It'll actually be fun to watch the Heat after the Bulls are eliminated. They will have my favorite college player ever in Dwyane Wade, my favorite current NBA player in Ben Gordon, and the guy I wanted the Bulls to draft in Michael Beasley. I must say, if this trade goes through, Pat Riley is a genius. He is just making his Eastern Conference rivals, such as John Paxson look like chumps. This isn't just some dumb luck like Danny Ainge fell into, but rather this is a smartly planned rebuilding plan. Part 1...we have Wade, Shaq's done, we can't compete, so let's tank. Get a high draft pick as a result of that tanking, get Michael Beasley. Have capspace ready to make moves both in the 2009 and 2010 offseasons. Carlos Boozer is the top free agent there...unlikely for Miami to be able to nab him. Ben Gordon is the #2 free agent, conditional him taking the qualifying offer. (There are guys like Iverson who are better players than Gordon that are going to be free agents, but Gordon is better value, since he is young, and would fit with a 19 year old Michael Beasley better than a 34 year old Allen Iverson or a 33 year old Andre Miller). Why wait and see if Gordon takes the QO or not, when we can get him right now? The Heat honestly know they aren't bringing Shawn Marion back after this year, so why play a charade with him? Use him to snag up one of their top free agent targets right now. Then bam, Miami has a trio in place of Gordon/Wade/Beasley. That is how you build great teams in the NBA, duos and trios. But Miami won't be done there. Unfortunately, Miami could still add Lebron James, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Chris Bosh, Tyson Chandler (they may have enough to get Tyson Chandler and one of those aforementioned players, depending on how much the Hornets value Chandler), Joe Johnson, etc. I don't see why the Bulls would do this trade. It would be better to just let Gordon walk outright than do this trade imo. It's not like we're getting rid of any bad contracts like Nocioni in this trade either. (although I would like them to suck up and pay for Nocioni, because he would make a great 6th man). Larry Hughes is not a bad contract anymore. He's not good on the court anymore, but he expires in the big free agency year, so he is in no way a bad contract.
Tech9 pretty consistently spins things as if he's John Paxson himself (and hell, he could be), so I don't put a huge amount of stock in him saying Gordon is the guy holding up this potential trade. On the other hand, god I hope he is, because like you say, trading Larry Hughes and getting back Marcus Banks just makes things worse in terms of setting up for 2010 free agency. Or 2009 free agency. And yeah, sure, Marion is a much better player than Gordon. But in the context of this team, Gordon fits a need and fills a long-term hole and Marion is a complete disaster. Older, bad leader, positional logjam, future contract dilemma. Yuck. Here's what's really going on. I don't see why the Heat would bother seriously talking sign-and-trade unless they'd already more or less agreed to terms with Gordon. My guess is it's for what the Bulls are offering or slightly more (like... what the Bulls offered last year). The deal is being held up, and is totally finance driven by the Bulls. They're going to chop off another $5-6M in salary this year and sell what a "star" Marion is and the prospect of a free agent next year. The deal is being held up because if they're taking back Marcus Banks as well, then they won't have cap space enough to offer it to anyone next year. Which is probably also why the Heat are offering to take Noah back (gee, what a favor... have our starting center while you're at it). But hey, it'd free up cap space! I think I'm going to be sick.
Marion is a nice fit, actually. Our frontline could be Deng, Marion, and Gooden (at C) with a backcourt of Rose and Hinrich with Thabo as the backup. Seems like this is what Paxson really wants. Marion is on the old side, so this is something of a quick fix. He wants a $15M/yr extension though, which would be something I don't see Pax doing. So he's here for a year and $17.8M comes off the books. Add back Banks' $4.5M and you have up to $13.3M in JR's pocket. The alternative is to do no deal and let Gordon walk. Just rescind the QO. You pay Hughes for one more year than Marion, but you don't have that $4.5M and whatever Gordon might sign for. From a $$$ standpoint, if we trade we pay $17.8M + $4.2M + $4.6M (2 years of Banks) = $26.6M. If we stand pat, we pay Hughes $26.4M. That's not counting the last year of Banks' contract, either. Jerry likes $200K in his pocket more than winning. Hughes comes off the books in time for the big 2010 FA class. Bulls would have $27M in LT space at that point, minus a few roster holds. Rescind or no QO for Simmons and it's close to $30M or enough to pay 2 $15M/year FAs. I think Gordon's folks have worked out the deal on his behalf and Pax isn't going for it.
Hoops World is saying that trading Ben Gordon is not an option for the Bulls. http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9992 Says the same about Marion, but I still think Miami would do the trade if it was up. I think Bulls aren't serious about moving Gordon.
Two weeks until camp starts. I don't remember ever seeing a team's leading scorer not signed by then. How does it play out?
Gordon and his agent are out of options at this point. The only team with cap space left is Memphis and they aren't interested in being pimped out again by signing a restricted free agent to a qualifying offer. There's speculation he'll sign with Europe, but it was dismissed by the owners of the Russian team. Now we have this new rumor, which seems like another bluff tactic by Gordon and his agent to bid up his price. If Gordon isn't getting any interest this offseason when he was one of the top free agents available, what kind of deal does he expect to get the next two years when the free agent pool is going to be loaded with marquee players? I think he'll be forced to sign the qualifying offer and then sweat it out the next two off seasons when he competes for free agent money with the likes of Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Kobe, Boozer, Marion etc. Good luck.
Indeed. I'm always amazed that folks don't seem to consider that when evaluating what he says (and doesn't say).
I don't like the deal as proposed. If I had to choose between that deal or just letting Ben play for the QO (something else I don't like), I'd choose the latter. Capwise, it seems to do little to change our situation over the long run, and if we're not willing to pay Ben what he wants, then I certainly can't see the Bulls acquiescing to Shawn Marion's contract demands next year. Throwing in Joakim Noah is the turd topping on a shit sandwich. I still think the Bulls and Ben Gordon may end up signing a deal with one another. All offseason, neither one has really had a better option, and nothing has changed my mind on that front. What's Ben Gordon going to do? Who else is going to score for the Bulls? Thabo? The Heat are one of the only teams who seem to be a good fit for Ben Gordon who also have potential pieces to make a deal happen, if it doesn't happen with them, I can't see how it happens anywhere else. At least not at this point.
I keep asking the Blazers fans if we can trade 'em Thomas and Viktor back for Aldridge. All I hear is crickets. I'm afraid this coming season is already a mess. Untested coach with no experience, and the offseason negotiations and these trade rumors are eerily similar to last summer.
The only trade that would really make sense is Gordon/Nocioni for Marion, and then not resigning Marion. With that, you clear out 2 pretty big contracts in Nocioni/Gordon, and also have Hughes expire in 2010. (And you probably trade Hinrich and get more room). The version with Hughes would give us some capspace next summer, but why? To bring in Mehmet Okur. Gordon out, Okur in is a net negative imo. Money talks in the NBA, and the Jazz can offer Boozer the most money, and the Lakers can offer Kobe the most money (if he decides to opt out).
And that trade only makes sense if you're kind of nuts, because you're trading away two quality players for, basically, nothing. I'm going to go into business with Kukoc4Ever selling Big Foam Fingers for Cap Space if that happens. I think even in the Hughes version, taking back Marcus Banks screws potential cap space for next season. I'd rather have Gordon. In the long run, pointing to 2010, it's still possible, even with keeping Gordon, to end up with max room under the cap if we play our cards right. That basically means moving Nocioni by then for sure. If we do that and nothing else, I think we've got room. We still have to chose between Gordon/Thabo/Hinrich/Gooden/Tyrus going forward, because we can't pay all those guys *AND* have cap space, but those choices could work themselves out.
