Unofficial S2 Presidential Poll

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by #1_War_Poet_ForLife, Sep 24, 2008.

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Your choice for President

  1. Obama/Biden

    48.1%
  2. McCain/Palin

    18.5%
  3. 3rd Party/ Writing In

    11.1%
  4. Not voting

    7.4%
  5. Not sure

    14.8%
  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The last administration wasn't exactly transparent. They were subpoenaed thousands of times and fought most of those. It was hugely scandal ridden from top to bottom. If it wasn't a cabinet level person quitting in disgrace after being investigated and goods found on them, it was the #2 man in the justice department, or it was some fall guy taking the rap. They lied to us; a good example is the economic team telling everyone in every venue that the "economy is in the sweet spot" while the fed chairman was saying at the same time "irrational exuberance" (Greenspan was right). $7T of peoples' wealth disappeared within months in 2000 when the NASDAQ crashed hard, making this congress' current mess look small. Enron and companies like it were made on their watch. AT&T, our oldest company and employer of 1% of the workforce was decimated and sold off in pieces (not the only one). He and his secretary of state repeatedly told us of the WMDs in Iraq and why we had to bomb them frequently. They got us into military actions in numerous places, including Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Sudan (I'm surely missing a few). Osama Bin Laden planned the 9/11 attacks during the whole of the administration, and we suffered terrorist attacks at numerous embassies, hotels, and even a mighty battleship (the USS Cole).

    I could actually buy into the "change" argument if Obama's advisors weren't the same people.

    If this administration were censoring scientific data, how would you know? Seems they'd censor anyone who'd be a whistleblower, too.

    I don't see any argument against another 8 years of Bush economics or foreign policy. Maybe it sucks, but maybe it would suck worse if Gore or Kerry were in office. "Change" means "different" not "better."
     
  2. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    +1

    :clap:
     
  3. Kid Chocolate

    Kid Chocolate Suspended

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    I believe the option was "not sure". And you're like 14.
     
  4. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    I'm referring to transparency in ALL levels of the government--not just the white house. Government agencies and departments are designed to operate with the input of stakeholders. Much of that has been emasculated. As far as censoring the scientific data, well, it is pretty well-established that the White House has been tampering with the conclusions, advice--and even congressional testimoy--of government scientists.
     
  5. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    That's the "devil you know" argument. I don't buy it. We can inspire our leaders to do better by continually replacing them. If Obama's record is marginally better than Bush's, I won't sit here and say: "hey! He was better than his predecessor!" He should then be voted out, too. We should expect excellence, not accept some minimum standard.
     
  6. cpawfan

    cpawfan Monsters do exist

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    Things went down hill fast when Pelosi's gang took over and it was done with malice. They wanted the country to be fucked up so that another Republican wouldn't become President.

    Both parties are equally to blame
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The last administration appointed people at all levels of government; it was corrupt top to bottom, from the travel office to the DoJ to HUD.

    What's been established is there's been a disagreement over man made global warming, and all the data is there for everyone to see, including NASA findings, and that there are disgruntled Clinton appointees at all levels of government who whine or sabotage things to make the administration look bad.

    As I said, the "change" isn't real change, it's "change back" and "back" isn't better.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The devil we know are Obama's supporters and advisors.
     
  9. Black Republican

    Black Republican MOB

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    Cmon, its America. Even if ur like 2% black, they(white folks) gon call u black.:dunno:
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I bet there's more 2% black people than you can shake a stick at. Probably most people whose families have been here since the 1800s or earlier.
     
  11. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    It is customary for political appointees to resign when a new administration takes over. You are talking about career civil service people, who have no axe to grind. They just want to do their job as best they can, to serve the American people the best they can. They take their direction from the political appointees, who are expected to understand and be passionate about the agency's mission. Career civil service employees fully understand that the priorities and policies of their agency and department shift with a new administration. There is no "animosity." It is part of the democratic process. They just expect to be able to do their job to the best of their ability, to advise leadership of policies and programs, and to be able to do so without outside interference.
     
  12. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    no, you are comparing Bush to a hypothetical Gore or Kerry administration: "Maybe it sucks, but it would suck worse if Gore or Kerry were in office."

    Regardless, Bush's administration will be remembered for Katrina; and whatever ultimately happens w/r/t Iraq, Afghanistan, and this mortgage crisis. I suspect he will go down as one of the worst ten presidents, but it is too early to tell at this point.
     
    Denny Crane likes this.
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Not entirely true.

    There are career civil service workers. Clearly if they don't like this administration, they've spoken up. Richard Clark ring a bell? In fact, many in the CIA. Valerie Plame and her husband are two more. How about Richard Armitage? Or the federal prosecutors who were fired?

    It's just absurd that people check their partisanship or ambition at the steps of their govt. offices.
     
  14. Black Republican

    Black Republican MOB

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    What are yall opinons on the bailout?
     
  15. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    there are at least half a million government employees in the DC area and you've named three. Hooray.

    The federal prosecutors were fired because they complained when they were prevented from doing their jobs. The amount of intereference from the white house in this administration has been unprecedented.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Katrina was like the worst disaster in US history. Maybe the chicago fire or the SF earthquake were worse. Or one of the pandemics that govt. couldn't stop. On top of the size of the disaster, the idiots (hey, they were Democrats!) in the governor's office and mayor's office bungled the situation beyond belief.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    How about the guy from NASA who complained about being censored?

    I think you need to name 5 people who actually aren't partisan in those jobs :)

    Actually, it doesn't matter. That I can name 5 partisans proves my point.
     
  18. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    Maybe. I just see the billions of dollars that have gone to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure in the years since Katrina, while our own citizens still live in trailers.
     
  19. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    I don't have the memory for such things.
     
  20. CelticKing

    CelticKing The Green Monster

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    ^ Dumpy, you really think the US Govt is dumb in what they're doing with Iraq? They're 20 years ahead of our thinking with their planning. 20 to 30 years down the road it will go down in history as the best move to go to Iraq and remain there.

    As for Katrina, I blame the people of New Orleans a lot. I was at home watching the hurricane on tv 48 hours before it reached, they talked about how big it was, etc, that people needed to evacuate, and no-one did.
     

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