CBS Insta Poll shows Barack Obama won 39% to John McCain's 25% with 36% saying the debate was a draw. Insider Advantage reports of those polled Obama won 42% to McCain's 41% with Undecided 17% CNN reports voter opinions that Obama "did better" 51%, McCain "did better" 38% The CNN poll showed men were evenly split, but women gave Obama higher marks 59% to 41% for McCain.
I came away from that debate thinking Obama got his but whipped. Obama looked like an amateur on foreign policy to McCain IMO. I can certainly see however, why people think Obama did a good job as well. BTW, that CNN poll polled more Democrats than Republicans.
He clearly didn't have an answer for two little tricks McCain pulled out of his bag..... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. He said that numerous times and it was a poor mans version of what Reagan did to Carter with his famous "there you go again". Obama needs a pithy response up his sleeve for the next time McCain trys that. The other thing was when McCain pulled out the bracelet gag. Sure, Barack had one too, and he was damn lucky he did....but it still made him look stupid.
This poll should be taken with a grain of salt, because it is an online only poll. It is still a scientifically based poll, but Zogby Interactive polls have been the 2nd least accurate polls out there, only beating out the Columbus Dispatch polls.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/bracelet-wars.html Bracelet Wars* September 28, 2008 11:34 AM <!-- Arnab Datta --> It was meant as a sign of respect, but now conservatives are saying Sen. Barack Obama's invocation of his "hero bracelet" bearing the name of a fallen soldier is being done against the family's wishes, based on comments made months ago by the soldier's father. Based on comments the mother of the family gave to the Associated Press today, however, the notion that Obama is wearing the hero bracelet against the wishes of the family -- or more specifically, the mother, who have him the bracelet -- is more complicated that it first seemed. She did ask Obama to stop mentioning her son on the stump, but she approved of the way Obama invoked her son in the debate. Some background: During Friday night's presidential debate, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., mentioned the moment when the mother of a fallen soldier gave him a hero bracelet bearing her son's name, Matthew Stanley. "I had a town hall meeting in Wolfeboro, New Hampshire, and a woman stood up and she said, 'Senator McCain, I want you to do me the honor of wearing a bracelet with my son's name on it.'" McCain recalled. "He was 22 years old and he was killed in combat outside of Baghdad, Matthew Stanley, before Christmas last year. This was last August, a year ago. And I said, 'I will -- I will wear his bracelet with honor.'...And then she said, 'But, Senator McCain, I want you to do everything -- promise me one thing, that you'll do everything in your power to make sure that my son's death was not in vain.' That means that that mission succeeds, just like those young people who re-enlisted in Baghdad, just like the mother I met at the airport the other day whose son was killed. And they all say to me that we don't want defeat." [video=youtube;Gdmywc39XD0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdmywc39XD0[/video] as he appeared to be seeking the name on the bracelet on his wrist, Sen. Obama responded saying, "I've got a bracelet, too, from Sergeant, uh, from the mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, given to me in Green Bay. She asked me, 'Can you please make sure another mother is not going through what I'm going through?' No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided. Our troops have performed brilliantly. The question is for the next president: 'Are we making good judgments about how to keep America safe? Precisely because sending our military into battle is such an enormous step." ** In February, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on the moment when Tracy Jopek gave Obama the bracelet, and Obama's mentioning of Jopek after he won the Wisconsin primary. "We're here because of the mother I met in Green Bay, Wisconsin, who gave me this bracelet that I'm wearing," Obama said then. "Inscribed on it is the name of her son Ryan. Next to his name it says...'All gave some but he gave all.' We are here because it is time to ask ourselves as a nation if we are serving Ryan and his compatriots and all our young brave men and women as well as they are serving us. They need us to end this war and bring them home and give them the care and the benefits that they deserve." Ryan Jopek was 20, a member of the Wisconsin National Guard like his father. He deployed to Iraq in 2005, was killed there in 2006. In February 2008, Ryan's mother Tracy and his sister Jessica traveled to Green Bay and waited in the cold for 45 minutes to give Obama her son's bracelet. A campaign staffer arranged it so they could meet him. "I didn't get to say what I wanted to say. I just cried," Tracy Jopek told the newspaper. "It wasn't for anything but for him to know this is real, something he needed to know. . . I do believe (the war) needs to end, but I believe it needs to be done very carefully and very thoughtfully." She said she was honored by Obama mentioning her son in his speech. "I couldn't believe it. It was such an honor, such an honor," she said. "To know that he does know his name. It means a lot." ** But a month later, Ryan's father Brian -- who is no longer married to Tracy -- told Wisconsin Public Radio that his ex-wife had misgivings about Obama wearing the bracelet and mentioning their son on the campaign trail. It seems as though just as Tracy Jopek supports Obama and wants to end the war, Brian Jopek has a different take on what should happen in Iraq and may be more inclined to support McCain. (You can listen to Brian Jopek about 10 minutes into THIS CLIP.) After pointing out that he and Tracy are not married anymore, Brian says that "from what I understood from email exchanges with Tracy….she wanted to put a name, she wanted Sen. Obama to know Ryan's name...She wasn't looking to turn it into a big media event...She just wanted it to be something between Barack Obama and herself." Brian Jopek went on to say that "because of some of the negative feedback she’s gotten on the Internet, you know Internet blogs, you know people accusing her of… or accusing Obama of trying to get votes doing it… and that sort of thing, she has turned down any subsequent interviews with the media because she just didn’t, she just didn't want it to get turned into something that it wasn’t. She had told me that in an email that she had asked, actually asked Mr. Obama to not wear the bracelet anymore at any of his public appearances." In an interview with the Associated Press today, Brian's ex-wife confirmed today that she had asked the Obama campaign to ask the candidate to stop mentioning her son on the stump. But -- and here's where it gets complicated -- according to the AP story, Tracy Jopek also said she was "ecstatic" that Obama mentioned her son's hero bracelet during Friday's debate. That's because he was responding to McCain citing a different griveing mother's hero bracelet as a way to back his political views of the war in Iraq and citing the bracelet she'd given Obama was a good and appropriate way to remind people there are different views on this issue. -- jpt
Yeah, I think where Obama also scored points was when he said "I wish John McCain and George Bush were right". That is kind of in line with McCain's "I would rather lose an election than lose a war".
Wow! The same CBS that ran faked ANG documents by Dan Rather/Mary Mapes in order to try and sway the electorate in the 2004 election. There is a reaons "journalists" have about that same respect as used-car salesmen in the Pew Polls, and at least used-car salesmen are trying to pretend that they are selling you something that has already been refected.
Forget the polls, did anyone who watched that debate think McCain is for the middle class? I was persuaded that McCain will fight to cut gov't spending and also sort of buy into the marverick idea, but McCain is big business and trickle down economics (which might not be a bad thing depending on your beliefs). Obama is for bolstering the middle class through taxing the wealthy (or who he believes is wealthy, above 250) and cutting out business loopholes. Polls will change weekly. I think the polls might even reflect a growing dissatisfaction with the Palin pick (about time). I do believe the majority of the polls that Obama won slightly but neither canidate shot themselves in the foot. But it isn't about who won, it's about the type of gov't you want . . . and there is a clear difference here.
If you don't like cbs, thats up to you. but its not like they were the only poll that showed him winning. most of the other ones did too.
Yes. It's a silly argument because you don't use a specific term that you're not talking about them. Actually, I think Sen. McCain is more focused on small business than big business. He definitely believes that people better know what to do with their own money than does the government. Detractors of that belief call it "trickle-down" economics. Obama definitely focuses more on the underclass and lower middle class. I respect his compassion for those people. However, I don't believe that the response to four decades of failed policies to stop the cycle of poverty is just to do the same thing, but do more of it. I remember when he was asked about a piece of legislation where he was wrong, and he brought up President Clinton's Welfare Reform. He was surprised that it worked. The problem was that he didn't learn the lesson of that legislation that sometime the best thing you can do for someone who receives help is to cut them off. As for cutting business loopholes, without a concomitant lowering of the corporate tax, it will result in less investment, lower job creation and ultimately lower tax revenues. People decry the Laffer Curve, but it's premise is dead-on. It's just the production possibility curve concept applied to tax revenue. Obama is ahead by a touchdown with the clock running down. He's in the prevent defense right now. Don't give up the big play and keep the clock running by keeping his opponent in bounds. McCain has to take his shots down the field. Right now, it looks like an Obama presidency.
Obama led by 11 points (52 to 41) in the daily portion of the Research 2000 daily tracker. I take it that Obama won the debate, based on that.
What does winning the debate mean? He got more independents to swing to his side or he out debated McCain . . . or both?
The thought that sticks with me in this debate is, "Why can't they run the rest of their campaigns the same way?" There was no discussion about the numbers of houses or Paris Hilton. It was a good, healthy debate that really got at some basic philosophical differences between the two candidates. I thought McCain came off a little too like the Grumpy Old Man. (When he said, "Obama just doesn't get it," he seemed to mean "That whippersnapper just doesn't get it.") And his lack of eye contact and his inability to actually address his opponent came off like every angry person I've ever met who is trying his best to stifle his rage. A lot of us men thought Obama looked weak by agreeing so much with McCain, but my wife actually found that appealing. Turns out she actually likes it when people can find things they agree on. Ask the women you know, and I bet they had a much different interpretation of that aspect than you or I did. Obama's rising numbers among women seem to carry that out. Again, though, it really surprises me how the issues of Reverand Wright and being a closet Muslim have been swept aside, and I think that's Obama's biggest achievement in this debate. He came across as rational, thoughtful and willing to find agreement. Not the kind of extremist nutjob that he's been painted as by so many on the extreme. If you don't agree, imagine that it was Obama who refused to make eye contact and refused to interact with his opponent. It would've been pretty easy to continue painting him as an ideological and religious radical if he'd just behaved like McCain.
mook, I thought the Obama "Just doesn't get it" was a shot back at Obama, for Obama constantly saying "John McCain doesn't not care, he just doesn't get it" when talking about the economic crisis, and other issues relating to the middle class. Although this debate looks like nothing like the fun we have in store for Thursday. From 538:
I know many people have very low expectations for Palin in this debate. Bidden is a tool IMO and never says anything and his answers go on for ever. If he does happen to answer something it usually is a mistake and will make him look like a fool. I have a feeling Palin will hold her own with Bidden and that will be a big win in people's mind considering how many think she is going to get killed in the debate. I'm not sure of your quote either and I don't believe McCain is that worried.
My big concern is that Biden will bring a bazooka to go shoot fish in a barrel. (The bazooka being Joe's mouth, the fish being Palin's going-nowhere answers.) Fareed Zakaria, who doesn't strike me as that partisan, has called for her to bow out: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/fareed_zakaria/2008/09/palin_is_ready_please.html Just read the Palin quotes he cites. It's painful. Joe, just remember that there's no point in going in with RPG's when your opponent is already committing sepuku. People may blame you for the bits of brain splattered on the wall.
I already seen and read that and a couple other conservatives wanting Palin to bow out. There are always going to be people with their own agenda and I'm not sure what theirs are but there is no way she should bow out. Most of the Republican base still love Palin and if she left McCain would lose by a landslide. Of coarse she has lost some of her luster but is more popular think you seem to think. I have a feeling she will actually win the debate or at least be equal with Biden. I think most of the complaints about Palin are from her being an outsider and not trusting what she might do. She doesn't have enough experience and hasn't looked great in those first two interviews. The Democrats have been hammering on Palin but that will backfire on them once this debate is over and IMO Biden looking like a tool. If I'm wrong I will admit it but lets wait and see after Thursday. You might just change your mind.
Everybody has a bad interview. Sometimes two in a row. So I can certainly empathize, especially with somebody who hasn't been on the big stage before. To me the most telling thing was that she wasn't available to deliver talking points after the first McCain/Obama debate, and she wasn't available when McCain ducked out of the Letterman interview. I mean, these kind of cameos are the sort of quick-and-dirty, softball exhibits that make you seem wise and personable without really having to know too much. In fact, she hasn't made any of the usual late night shows you'd expect to see a Veep candidate make. And that's a veep candidate for a campaign that's doing well. A campaign that's lost momentum should be out there flogging their hottest act as hard as possible. That the McCain campaign has shown so little confidence in her to this point should be the biggest red flag of all.
