Some people say President Obama will not lower taxes for people making less than $250K/yr. Some say $200K, some $150K, some say $125K, and some say $14K. IMHO, Obama will raise taxes on all taxable income over $14K. Many disagree, so I have a fool proof way to test this. Let's say Obama wins (I think that's a fairly safe bet at this point in time). In 2009, prior to his taking office, I'm going to make a copy of a check stub. Obviously, it will show my bi-monthly income and the taxes withheld. Then, at some point in time in the ensuing presidency I will make another copy of my paystub and post both (I have to remove a few things like SS number... for obvious reasons) and we all will see if taxes for a person making $60K per year go up or not. For those who say they will not, an apology will be expected. However, if those of us (like me) are wrong, we will owe an apology to those who were right as we trashed Obama unfairly. Either way, the case shall be proven beyond any doubt.
When do the Bush tax cuts expire? I think we all agree that he probably isn't including that event when he makes the statement that no one's taxes will increase.
There's a bottom line. Obama supporters have been adamant he will not raise taxes except for the wealthy. Period. I-t w-i-l-l n-o-t h-a-p-p-e-n. And the conservatives have been just as adamant that taxes are being increased for lower & middle income wage earners. Period. There's no backing out of your opinions now. There's no semantics games to be played. Taxes for low & middle income earners are either going down, going up, or staying the same. We will all find out who was pulling off the big lie. Was it Obama? Or was it the conservatives? Somebody was telling the truth and we will have undeniable & inarguable proof. But, again, be forwarned! For those of you (including myself) that supported their lie, you will be fully exposed for all to see. As Abe Lincoln said, "We shall see what we shall see."
I guess your point is just that he has been misleading. No problem with that. If that is the point of this game, then it is pretty silly, in my view. The tax cuts would expire under Mccain as well, and sure as heck won't be renewed by the almost-guarranteed democratic congress.
Now, to continue this proof positive thread. I have asked barfo (one of our moderators) to place a sticky on this thread since it will take time to see what really happens. I'm doing this as a psuedo part of the new "fairness" doctorine coming from our liberal government. I mean, what's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander, ya know.
OK, fair enough and a very good point. I'll do the same thing if McCain is elected. So there,this will be done regardless of who our next president is and we'll see if taxes go up for us peons.
That's the way I see it, but I could be wrong. But it isn't the only issue on the agenda. I actually find it disheartening that so many people are focusing solely on tax policy--and that the candidates are pandering to those that are focusing on it. Maybe it is a chicken-and-egg problem. There are so many other issues at play right now--security, Iraq/Iran, the social issues, the finance/housing crisis, the way our government is run, etc.--that in my view are much more important. Tax policy is in the now: what will the government do for ME. those other issues go to the heart of where we want the country to be in five and ten years. I expect my taxes to go up a little bit. If the money is used to improve the infrastructure, then I don't mind much. If the money is used to improve Iraq's infrastructure, I will be pretty steamed.
Here's what I'll do. I'm going to count the number of Christian, capitalist societies we live in (1). If by the end of Obama's first term, America isn't Muslim and socialist, I will expect a full apology from one or two people on this forum.
If McCain were elected President, it's likely that the Democrats wouldn't have a veto-proof majority in Congress. I believe he's said that while he initially opposed them (because they didn't have corresponding expense cuts), as President he would continue them.
I'm not sure you'll see any "tax cuts" on your paycheck stub. You'd see a bigger refund when you file your taxes, since there is no actual tax cut but more deductions and tax credits.
Interesting point!! I now have to consider the possibility my taxes may go down. Oh well, it will be posted for all to see!
My understanding is that they automatically expire without further action. He'd have to convince Congress to extend them. In other words, it is beyond his control. Perhaps I'm wrong about that.
You're right, the expire in 2010 or 2011 and have to be renewed. Maybe some of the tax cuts have already been renewed, but certainly not the tax bracket ones.
That's certainly true. And that's the beauty of the bully pulpit. He can stand in the Rose Garden and say he wants to keep taxes at the same level and the Democrats are intent on raising them. They'll be a Republican who will be happy to sponsor an extension of the tax cuts, and perhaps even a Democrat. It's a great election issue and one Pelosi and Reid will want to run away from. They'll be bullied into continuing them.
on the other side of the coin, Obama is going to be in a tough spot, because he won't be able to blame anyone but himself if his campaign promises aren't kept. And I dont expect that he wants, or plans, to keep all of them.
There's no way Obama keeps them. He won't even try. He'll talk about how it minimally affects those making a living in the mid-five figures and mostly benefits the "rich". He'll play the class warfare game with it and they'll drift into history.
Actually I believe that Biden said the other day that people making less than 150k would get the tax cut...
