Here's what David Thorpe said to Henry Abbott: You know, I've never understood why people like this guy and Chad Thorpe suddenly ascend to the status of Basketball Oracles without actually evey having done anything. And this guy has favorites (often players who've paid him to be their trainer) that he constantly plugs. And up till now he's been saying that Oden will be great. Right up until this week, when Oden sprains his ankle. My question is: did he see the footage of Oden spraining his ankle? Did he see the angle the foot was twisted? If he loved Oden up to this point, but suddenly he's going to be a permanent gimp, what effect was that foot getting bent like that supposed to have? Was Oden supposed somehow to have been unaffected? Only players with "soft tissues that can't take poundings" would be affected? Or was his foot not supposed ever to bend back like that no matter what happens? I'm not an idiot: it's possible that Oden could be injury prone. But this guy has suddenly switched THIS WEEK to saying this? My take on Oden is that he could be like Rik Smits, a guy who never did much when he was heavy but became useful when they changed policy and had him go skinny. (Oh, and anyone hear of Zydrunas Ilgauskas? He had BAD foot issues for his first two seasons, and has been a warhorse ever since. Can't we hope for that?)
The path Greg is on he wont be a superstar. He's on the path of being a 3rd-tier Center. A bigger Delembert with annual injuries.
If he spends the rest of the season, being injured at times, then we would have to agree that he's injury prone. But I'll wait myself at least another 30 or so games, to see if he's able to withstand the NBA playing, traveling, etc.
What "path" is that? Path to gimpyville? And you've come to this considered opinion because you, like Thorpe, are an expert on "soft tissues"? Is that a kind of cheese?
Opinions are a lot like assholes, everyone's got one and most of 'em stink. Who gives two shits what David Thorpe, with no medical background thinks? The only way we'll know if he's injury prone or if this is going to be some kind of recurring theme throughout his career is to let it play itself out. I do think Greg needs to hire a nutritionist and personal trainer that specializes in kinesiology, giving him the best possible chance to make the most of his gifts while maximizing his health.
To be honest, I listen up when I hear the name David Thorpe. He works with a ton of players and has a lot of good experience working with them. He's not a talking head journalist. He's a trainer and coach who works with players on a daily basis, making them better. Outside of his man-love for Kevin Martin, I have no problem with Thorpe. As for the Oden prospectus, just realize that he's a big guy and big guys get hurt. Especially if they're out of shape. Especially when coming down for rebounds (I read an article recently that said most basketball injuries at HS and College level occur with someone coming down for a rebound). Oh well. Portland still has Roy, Rudy, LA, Outlaw, Webster, Pryz and all the other good talents that can win games. We have KP to get us another center in the case that Oden doesn't work out...which is unlikely. He has talent, it's just a matter of health. Oden is no Kandiman.
Look, if Oden had just done a Sam Bowie and had his leg break while coming down from a standard rebound, I'd be concerned. Stepping on a player's foot and getting a sprain? Come on. Anybody who's ever played basketball has done that. In order to make any kind of reasonable assessment of Greg's physical toughness, he has to first get back into NBA shape and play a season of basketball. He's not in game shape and that increases the odds of injury in any sport. It's unfortunate that this happened so early in the season, but anybody making any kind of prediction about his future from this incident needs to pull his pants down to avoid mumbling.
I think it's great that getting tonsillitis and a tonsillectomy are now fodder for "Injury Prone" and on top of that the turned ankle in Camp... Yeah those happen to every player and not infrequently.
Greg initially said it happened when he stepped on Fisher's foot. You're right though that the replay they showed was just when he landed awkwardly. It may be that he did step on Fisher's foot in a previous play and partially rolled it and that the other play just finished the job. Either way... IT'S A FREAKIN' SPRAIN, PEOPLE!
Right! Not to mention the hand injury in College. Was that because he was doing handstands and his fragile bones just shattered under the bulk? Or is a hand injury really no indication of not being cut out for basketball? And finally, even the microfracture surgery was surgery that wouldn't've been done on a knee that looked like that ten years ago, and he wouldn't've missed a year. And how about this: Thorpe said that he couldn't think of players who'd missed the beginning of three seasons in a row. What about Grant Hill? Was he injury prone? Not until he was about, what, 27. So what was he before then? Did he have latent weaknesses just supressed, but always ready to show? And what about since then - he's been okay for two straight seasons. I think Thorpe is just being irresponsible speculating like this. Or maybe I should blame Henry Abbott, because maybe Thorpe just meant it as a private discussion.
It's fair to at least question that Oden's ceiling is considerably lower with his chronic injury problems. As of today when you see Greg and all his health problems he just screams Ralph Sampson or Sam Bowie.
[video=youtube;ePqsNRg6o9Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePqsNRg6o9Y&watch_response[/video] 1:20. Greg is gathering the rebound and his right foot comes down on Derek Fisher's left foot and starts the roll. Fisher is in the process of moving when this happens, so his foot slides out from under Greg's and Greg's foot continues the roll. Landing on Fisher's foot is what started the entire roll. Edit: My mistake it actually (the start of landing on Fisher's foot) starts at 1:17.
Right. Essentially he is an expert on this topic with more experience than any 10 of us put together. We should listen to him. We should take what he says and consider it. And when he makes general rule of thumb statements ( "Some people have skeletons, or soft tissues, or tendons and ligaments, that are just not meant to take a physical pounding on a daily basis. Oden is very likely one of these guys.") based on his vast experience with how ever many players he has worked with we should take it for what it is: BULLSHIT Maybe that statement he made is true. But that statement cannot be proven true with the tiny number of players he has worked with. So his expertise and experience does not qualify him to make that statement with authority. Maybe he thinks he has noticed a "trend" in players he works with and he developed a working theory and feels time has borne him out, AND that he has developed an "eye" for these types and can identify them. Very unlikely. Much more likely is his sample size is far too small to be of any use and he doesn't realize this AND his cognitive bias causes him to see and remember more vividly that which confirms his theory. And even if that statement is true generally, his leap to the contention that "Oden is very likely one of these guys" is based on what? This guys population size of personal experience with "soft" ballers is far far too small to be able to be making anything more than a guess. And that would be if he had personally worked with Oden to get an extended and close look at him. And how does his theory incorporate a guy like Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Here is my guess: Oden may be "injury prone" or he may not. Injuries have derailed a significant minority of quality ballers careers, and the ironmen of the NBA are pointed out because those guys are the freaks - not the ones who regularly get dinged up. Anybody making pronouncements at this early stage is doing so without substance. I read that piece on TrueHoop and was disappointed that Henry posted it without calling that guy out. He is welcome to his opinion of course. But to claim that his vast experience gives him predictive powers shows sloppy thinking.
+1. Last year I advocated the Blazers hiring a chef to cook for Greg when he blogged about what he was eating and I was fairly horrified. I agree that he needs to do something, yoga maybe, to help with his breathing (seems a problem for him) and keep his posture and alignment straight.
I s McGrady less talented as a result of being injury prone? Maybe less valuable in trade scenarios, bot not less talented.
