Yeah, I am. I like it when two sides see things 100% differently and yet the debate can be settled with clear facts. Unlike the BCS.
I wouldn't even know HOW to post something here on this site. What is the most fascinating, of course, is that we're not arguing about facts, such as whether one pie is bigger than another pie: we're arguing on whether Obama or McCain are misleading us, and if so, how much. We have absolutely nothing to go by other than our faith or skepticism that they are telling the full truth. No one knows what is going on inside their heads, or what Congress may ultimately do or allow them to do, which is a factor. For all we know, Obama will say, "you know what--I was wrong; I'm raising taxes for everyone"--but Congress will give him a big "fuck you," refuse to go along, and as a result you'll lose the bet. Or, the opposite: Congress will gain a super-majority and push through a tax increase despite Obama's annoyance and attempt to stop it. But let me ask you a slightly different question, and to be clear, I don't have an agenda in asking this, I am just curious and am wondering how the conversation will go: If Obama does, in fact, raise taxes, but at the same time the stock market recovers; the housing market turns around; the economy generally improves however you want to measure it; and gas prices continue to decline, would you be angry, or would you be fine with that trade-off? To put it another way: How important is the impact on income taxes to you, in light of the other economic issues at play? What if Obama could achieve a couple of those things, but had to raise taxes on the middle class?
All those things are going to happen regardless of who the president is. The crisis is mostly over and now the markets and banks... are slowly recovering, so relating that to taxes doesn't seem like a direct connection. These markets are cyclical and there's little Obama can do to greatly affect them. As for me, like most people (I make $60K per year), I have a mortgage (80/20, so a first & a second mortgate), a car payment, my wife has a student loan, we support two kids in college, and a daughter with a terminal illness. We contribute to several charities as well (about 11%, down recently from 15% of our income). As you might guess, we have to watch our budget very carefully, just like most people in our income bracket (or less). If my taxes go up, something has to go. Some of our chareties are long term commitments (we've cut back on the ones that are not) and assisting my daughter are non negotiables (her medication is $200,000 per year). That leaves the boys college and the car. Since I'm only about 18 mos into the car loan, it's unlikely I could sell it for what it's worth (in part due to the fact we have to add state tax to the purchase) and then buy a beater car to cummute in at this time, so if my taxes go up, the boys college support ends for now until money is freed up elsewhere down the road. One of them (studying to he a math teacher) will assuredly have to drop out, so raising taxes will effect his life at present and maybe for the future. If taxes go up for us that are low to middle class, most people will have to sacrifice something. That probable mean less purchasing and that could keep the economy stagnent. To be sure, there will always be new jobs as well as jobs lost, but it's the type of jobs lost & created that are the real key.
I am sorry to hear about your daughter. Best wishes to you and your family. Your prespective is perfectly understandable, and it is no surprise that given your circumstances that you prefer certainty to uncertainty. Hopefully, Obama (and Congress, of course) will follow through with some sort of tax break or tax credit for higher education, so even if taxes rise, your burden won't increase. I really admire your dedication to give to charity despite, as you put it, having to watch your budget very carefully. You deserve a lot of credit for that.
There is one major flaw with your expiriment. Pay stubs represent Gross earnings and taxes Withheld. Withholdings do not affect the amount of taxes you Owe. That is why we do tax returns, you have taxes withheld throughout the year, then at the end of the year we do a summary (tax return) and determine if you had too little (tax due) or too much (tax refund) taxes withheld over the course of the year. A good example of this is for anyone who earns a Bonus. A Bonus is taxed at the same rate as ordinary income, but has increased tax withholding. Now if the percentage you pay in Social Security and Medicare tax increase, then you know you have been fucked by Obama. It is impossible to tell from a pay stub if your income taxes have increased. You will have to compare tax returns from the two years, and factor into account that tax brackets are adjusted upward every year.
Seriously, why are people so sensitive about taxes being raised anyway. People would rather not pay an extra $3 a year on property taxes then feed a starving child. So selfish. Raise taxes PLEASE!!!
Why raise taxes? Why not just feed a starving child? Why funnel it through 3 levels of government, each of whom I'm not sure can find their bottom with both hands and a flashlight? I mean, in WA we have as our senators a woman who made it big as a programmer at Microsoft, and a "housemom in tennis shoes". We have a governor who's a lawyer, but iirc lost the last two major cases she tried and got sued while in office as AG. Are you telling me they're adept at "social aid situations"? Give to a church, or to a shelter, or to a charity that works with them. Volunteer your time. Get people off of the tit of the government and back to neighbors helping neighbors.
can somebody sticky this please!!!!!! If prophet gets a sticky i want a sticky hoojacks wants a sticky i want a mother fucking sticky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW.... THIS IS THE WORST THREAD EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE INTERNET. GREAT JOB EVERYONE
Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED As promised, I am weighing in on my personal taxes under President Obama. I get paid every other week and my Federal Tax Withholdings have dropped by $30. I called to HR and they state the tax tables have been revised and so far as they know it's a tax decrease as part of the Obama stimulus plan. If this is true, thanks, Prez!
Re: Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED So what are you going to do with the extra $30? Spend or save? barfo
Re: Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED Since my wife isn't convinced this is a real tax cut, we're saving it in a separate account. If it is a tax cut, we'll take it next January and go to the beach for a few days and have a great time and toast the prez.
Re: Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED My mom once told me if you mind the dimes and quarters, the dollars take care of themselves. Sage advice.
Re: Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED Got an email from our HR lady saying the same thing. It's definitely a tax cut, albeit pretty small. Still, it more than pays for League Pass for the year. I actually kind of liked the Republican idea of a payroll tax holiday for a year. I can see why Dems didn't like that idea, though. It'd be tough to vote to re-instate the payroll tax after people got to see what life was like without it. That would've meant a real re-thinking of how we finance our government. Americans are ready for such a discussion, I think, just as we're ready for re-thinking health care and energy. But a revision of the tax code would probably mean those other major issues would get pushed further back.
Re: Here's What I'm Gonna Do- REVISITED I agree. I feel we need to completely abandon the graduated tax and go to some sort of flat tax.
