...I know a lot of you get bored in between games and really just like discussing this team in general, but it is absurd to even try to analyze Webster at this point. If you want to go by the one game sample from the pre-season, then it is more than clear that he will be turning the corner and breaking out this season [since that is the only game we have seen to show how much he has worked on his game in the off-season]. It's really a shame that he even got hurt, but there is no way any true basketball/Blazers fan can just right him off without seeing his progress this year [unless you were always in the camp against him from day one...and fools I say to that camp] I think a lot of you get blinded by the bright potential that all of the youth has, but please try to keep it all in perspective and remember that WEBSTER IS ONLY 21/entering his 4th season and HE HAS IMPROVED EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!!
Do you honestly expect Webster to dissappear to that point now? Maybe a few years ago. Not now. Webster knows how to contribute even when not scoring now.
While Martell did improve last year from his previous 2 years - this statement just is not true. Martell's rookie campaign was better than his 2nd year (probably because he had to play a new position as Roy took his SG minutes). During his rookie year he shot a higher percentage, his per 36 scoring went down during his 2nd year, his FT% went down, his turn-over rate went up but he did rebound a little more. Overall - his PER went down from his rookie year to his 2nd year. The most glaring problem with Martell's progress is that while his defense went from bad to acceptable - his overall offensive production has not. His most productive per-minute scoring year was his first - yes, he scored more points per game last year - but he did it at about twice as many minutes of play... He had a small increase in rebounding rate, a small increase in assists rate and his shooting percentage went up a bit - but basically his "improvements" on the offensive end came from playing more minutes - not from becoming a better offensive player. He basically went from an OK rookie to a below average rotation player offensively - and his defense has gone from bad to acceptable (and this is the reason he gets more minutes - since Portland was pretty thin at the SF position - with Jones injured a lot and Travis playing PF). The problem is that Portland is no longer thin at the SF position - Nic is probably our SF of the future and he is our best defensive prospect at the 3 and until some decision is made about Frye's future with the team - Travis spends time at the SF position as well - and Travis is a much better offensive player than Webster - his per 36 points, assists, rebounds and steals are higher.
Nope, you're completely wrong. Webster is still the best SF we have overall. A much improved handle, above-average defensively now, still lights-out capability, and now much more explosive than he's ever been. Hopefully he won't this mentality when he returns. I like Batum, but you're severely delusional if you think he's better than Webs...Maybe in a few years, but I doubt that as well. Webster is getting better all the time too... And I'm sick of hearing Webster can't create his own shot. He definitely can, he has more ability than Outlaw does...it was just never his role in the past. Stand in the corner and shoot the 3, that's all McMillan let him do/ as well as the ramifications of an offense led by Jarrett Jack. Spew all the meaningless stats you want. These kids are all still 23 or under. When I watch basketball, I evaluate talent and ability; I can see that Webster has more ability than both Outlaw and Batum.
Oh. I am sorry. I did not realize that I needed to watch the games too. Excuse me - but I watch the games as well - and I see what Webster is - you might disagree with me - but to claim that you watch and therefore you know - while I watch and have no clue is questionable at best, unfortunately for you - the numbers do not match your assesment. I like Marty, I really do - He is a nice kid - but he is a complementary player at best. I said before and I will say again - he is extremely young - so he might turn into more than this - but he is not special at any facet of the game.
I think we need Webbie. We need to make room for him but not cut out ANY minutes from Rudy. Take away Frye or Outlaw minutes for Webster.
...so, you think your beloved decimal points paint your picture crystal clear?! Is that all?! Jaded statistical analysis?!
I think the discussion is moot at this point. Webster looked more active and overall better in pre-season. Does that translate to regular season? Only time will tell. I think once Martell is back, he gets opportunity to play a number of games before we start judging him too critically (it may take a few games before he starts to get back into the flow) and then as he has had a chance to play more and show his current abilities, all comparisons are moot. It is not fair to compare Outlaw and Batum (current) to Martell (historic). Outlaw seems to be more consistent this year and I believe his shooting is improved. Let's give Martell a chance to show what, if any, improvements he has made and then make the comparison. Batum hasn't show the offensive capabilities of either Martell or Outlaw but his defensive instincts are better than either of the other two. Some of the decisions may be situational, others positional (for example Travis spending some time at PF) but whatever the case, management seemed very high on Martell in pre-season and I don't think it wise to write him off as no longer fitting with the team without giving him a full eval with the team first. Gramps...
No. That was a great quarter from him. But it's not like this is the norm. This was an exception. I really do not hate Webster - I just do not think he has shown himself to be anything other than a one quarter wonder once a year - and the numbers show that his per-36 offensive numbers have not really changed - his offensive improvement comes mostly from getting more minutes. I did tell you that I think he has become a better defensive player - and that's why he is getting these extra minutes - but the entire "he improves every year" sound bite was not right for his 2nd vs. 1st year - and the place where he really come along was on the defensive end - he still can't create for himself. His great quarter was a combination of a hot-shooting night, Roy being down and Nate going with the hot-hand and the fact that the Jazz did not switch on him coming of screens - he got his points by being a spot shooter in a hot night when the opposing team was concentrating on switching off the dribble - going into the 4th quarter (it was the 4th, if memory serves) - Sloan noticed what was happening - they started switching on him - and his offensive output was 1 shot (missed) and 2 defensive rebounds. Now - if he could be as active running of back-door cuts and coming off screens all the time - he would be Rudy Fernandez. That is a great thing - but for Webster - this is not the norm. Now - if me not being able to call him the greatest thing since sliced bread because of one magical quarter labels me a hater - so be it. Ignore the rest of his average body of work for his once a year magnificent quarter. Don't get me wrong - nothing will make me happier than seeing Webster dominate night in and night out - and that's why I think he would work better in the 2nd faster-paced group with Rudy and Sergio - because if there is something he can do well - it is finish on the break.
You've expressed this for a while, time keeps making the claim seem more and more out of touch. Outlaw has been much more productive then Webster for some time now and he's continued to widen the gap. He possesses the more varied and valuable skillset and is bigger, longer, and more athletic. He's even shown to be better at Webster's one positive... shooting. He shot a better percentage from deep last year, he was also better from the field and the line. This year he's taken Martell's stand in the corner to spread the D role to a level that MW has never approached. Travis is at least as good a defender, is a far superior rebounder/shotblocker... I'd even point to his work on his handle this past offseason giving him another advantage over Web. I'm with Mook seeing no reason to give MW any of Travis's PT... or Rudy's for that matter. He's a decent enough player but he's not as good as some of his teammates. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get the starting role back from Nic after he rounds back into game shape though. If a player worthy of minutes has got to sit, I see Nate opting to let the rook pay his dues. But if he doesn't quickly blend and excel with the opportunity, if he struggles with the yips on his shot as he's done, that could change. As KP repeatedly noted last year, Portland could use a good wing defender... you don't say that if you're pleased with the D of the incumbent. Dudes got his work cut out for him STOMP
I think both Webster and Outlaw are not too far apart. Outlaw just doesn't have it between the ears for me to think he is going to make another big leap, and his game will never be complimentary enough to be a starter, and is also a one trick pony, even moreso than Webster, imo, as Webster learned last year how to start contributing without having to score (he still has a long way to go). But it seems that Outlaw has improved his rebounding a bit (thanks mom!), which is a good start. I would really like to see how Webster has improved over the off-season. I'm not buying that he improved as much as people like Barrett said he did, but I can't make judgement of who is really better right now until i see him play (I liked what i saw in his preseason game but he may lose a big advantage he had over this 2 month injury, and that was being in great shape).
How about we let Martell play into the rotation after comming off a fairly serious foot injury? As far as I am concerned, the team misses Martell more then Oden. There were several times where his outside shooting would have helped in games where the rest of the team stopped hitting shots.
Outlaw's rebounding was considerably better then Webster last year. They played almost the exact same amount of minutes overall so their stats are pretty easy to compare. Travis outrebounded Martell 376-242. Steals was 59-42, Blocks 63-28. TO also got to the line almost twice as often. If Travis is a one trick pony and struggles to contribute outside of scoring as you contend, then what does that say about Martell? And btw... between the ears is the last thing I give Martell credit for. Dude has had issues. STOMP
andalusion is right. I've been saying it over and over. Webster will cut into Frye's minutes and no one else's. Webster is better than Batum. Webster will start. Batum will play off the bench. Outlaw will play lots of minutes at PF. Batum is starting to get a little bit overrated in here. Webster is a much more proven player. Batum is a 19 year old rookie still learning the ropes.
Agreed that Batum might be overrated here. However, Batum's ceiling is higher, as is the likelihood that he will reach that ceiling. But, for the first time, I was a bit excited to see what Web could do because of his new attitude and hustle. He'll get his starting role back. Hopefully, he'll do well. But, I think he's better suited to a running game, and that's the 2nd unit (as long as Roy mans the 2 spot). So, eventually he may move there.
he got his boot off saturday????? that means he should start doing rehab, i think he'll be back by mid december
I see Webster going back to the starting rotation with Outlaw and Rudy filling up the minutes behind him. Between Outlaw and Webster, the more effective player during the game will probably get to stay out there longer and get more minutes. Batum will be pushed back to spot minutes . . . at least I hope so. I really want to see a 9 man rotation with 7 players getting the bulk of the minutes. Blazers have a lot of good young talent, maybe enought to afford the main crew a little more resting time than usual. But these games count, most teams are playing their top 7-8 trying to win games, and Blazers have to think the same way. Egos will be bruised, but you got to go with your top guys during the season. I think the 8-9 rotation will be Blake, Roy, Webster, LA, Joel, Oden, Outlaw, Rudy. The rest will have to make the most of their oppportunties (including Batum, Bayless, Frye and Sergio . . . that is one stacked team, too bad you only put five out there at a time . . . we beat any team 12 on 12)
