I say deportation is fine. I don't want to pay for a jail cell. However, the penalty for being in the country illegally should be that there is a significant waiting period before you're allowed back in. It didn't seem as if there were any penalty in Mook's case. Wow, you seem to know a lot about jacking cars. Again, those are citizens breaking the law. Frankly, I'd like to see people like that in jail.
But you wouldn't pay for it, that's the part you don't seem to get. We're running a deficit that will not be paid in our lifetimes. So, you're asking the next generation and the generation after that to pay for programs to make you feel better. Like I said, feel free to send more of your money to the government; they'll be happy to take it. Or you can do what I (and others do) and give to a charity.
Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest anything about you. It was more a general comment towards the thread at large, and was expanding upon your comment. Don't know how you got that from my one-line statement. barfo
Sure, just as I currently pay down (in part) a deficit left by others. Framing this as a sort of selfish process that I won't be a part of (in the paying sense) doesn't really wash, IMO. Conceptually, I believe society has an obligation to everyone. Whether I pay directly for the programs that exist today or whether I pay for previous social programs while future generations pay for the current ones doesn't change that principle a bit. I do both. Pay taxes (that support both programs that I support and those that I don't) and I give directly to charity.
People think all kinds of things are impossible. No harm in trying to prove them wrong. My plan is this, put large buses in the back of every Goodwill store. Put a ramp from the loading area in the store to the bus....herd all the hispanics into the buses and let the ones that can prove that they are here legally go free. EASY.
Virtually Impossible? They all got here on their own, without our assistance, many on foot. With a proper incentive to go home provided (imprisonment, execution, whatever gets them motivated?) they'd be gone in a week.
I say let 'em all in. Since when is America anything but a melting pot, and why should we pull up the ladder behind us after we've made it here? Why no cries to build a fence across the Canadian border! It's racist. Mexicans are NATIVE AMERICANS. They've been migrating throughout north america for centuries and long before white man came here. Let them continue to do so, I absolutely see no harm. They're Mexican citizens, not US ones. They're only entitled to the rights that "Persons" (defined by law, the constitution) have, not that citizens have. That's the price for not going through "official" channels. The immigration laws have always been there to racially profile people and deny them Liberty because of their race. It's a disgrace. If we got rid of income tax and went to a sales tax of some sort, they'd pay their fair share of taxes to cover whatever societal cash costs anyone claims against them. If we want them to not immigrate, we should be thinking of ways to make Mexico a better place for them to stay.
I've always thought it was the opposite - illegal immigrants are stuck paying taxes without getting any of the benefits (ie social security) regardless, I'm fairly shocked at how cold this thread is. It took three pages to get to this Exactly. Some corporate responsibility would go a long way to improving the immigration situation.
Maybe you mean to say something else? Is there a difference between being anti-murder and anti-murderer? If you support them being here illegally, then you support them being enslaved, because without them applying for and receiving citizenship they will not be protected from it. Maybe instead of deportation you would prefer they be rounded up and put in government labor camps for the benefit of our legal citizens, rather than merely benefitting greedy business owners?
If we want them to not immigrate, we should be thinking of ways to make Mexico a better place for them to stay. WTF? This is how incredibly LAZY the typical illegal immigrant from Mexico is. They are born in a pretty nice country, one so comfy that millions of Americans choose to retire in and live out their golden years, and some Mexicans don't think it's perfect so rather than work to improve their home country like Americans do each and every day, they prefer to sneak into America and sponge off our legal citizens. They have no desire to become LEGAL Americans if it requires any effort on their part. They have no desire to be a constructive part of ANY society. They are traitors to Mexico, and parasites riding the backs of decent Americans. I have no sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants at all, and despise their very presence here. They are the exact opposite of LEGAL immigrants in every way, and further demonstrate WHY we have a process for immigration. It weeds out the criminals, the users, the worst of the worst.
Maris, you seem to have two rather different views of illegal immigrants. How do you reconcile them? Are they slaves, or lazy welfare queens? Can't be both. barfo
The correct analogy is, is there a difference between being anti-murder and anti-murder victim? Maybe you aren't making any sense. barfo
Illegal immigrants are slaves VOLUNTARILY, as they have many legal opportunities available to them but lazily choose to take the path of least resistance. They can work to make their already pretty good country better, or they can go through a simple administrative process and become legal citizens here and contribute to making this country better. They refuse to do either, because it requires a modicum of personal effort and responsibility, and prefer to desert their countrymen and families and sponge off our society at our expense.
As long as we continue to run a deficit, you don't pay for anything in the present. All you're doing is putting it on future generations. For everyone who is comfortable with that concept, if you have kids, look them in the eye and explain why they should pay for your comfort. And I just don't buy the argument that because something was put on us, that we can then justify making it worse. You leave something better than when you found it. I'm a believer in buying only what you can afford. Our government needs to do less, not more. Local organizations do a marvelous job at feeding the poor. In fact, I'd like someone to point to me the widespread starvation problem in this country. If anything, poor people suffer from the effects of excess calories (heart disease, obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc), not a calorie deficiency. If you're still not satisfied, give more.
Simple. We each pay for the social programs of the previous generation, due to the way things work. As I said, the essential concept is unchanged: we're paying for the social good, because society should not let anyone end up starving in the gutter. Whether the "strangers" one is helping are people today or people from yesterday isn't terribly germane to the point. Right, but I don't see it as "put upon us" and "making it worse." It's an essential difference between us. I understand why I have a bill come due from the past, and I'm not willing to forsake social programs because of it. Of course, we could spend half of what we do on military and still lead the world in military spending by a LARGE amount. Perhaps we could "make the deficit better for future generations" by cutting into that a bit? That's a strange challenge. There is no starvation problem because we have social welfare programs. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take it under advisement. I try to do my part, but society as a whole can do far more than I can individually, so I'll continue to support social programs in addition to donating money and time.
I refuse to accept this new idea. We have historically run small deficits, but those were to pay for the articles outlined in the Constitution. Social Security is supposed to be paid for by your dollars; it's to be held in trust. Reagan raided the SSTF, and we've never refilled it. Wrong country. Here's what we believe: Like I said, all governments accept personal checks, money orders and credit cards. Pay as much as you want. Besides the fact that the military serves as the most effective social program in the United States, I'll refer you back to the preamble of the Constitution. We provide for the common defense. Then why create a new program or a new right for a problem that doesn't exist? Think Globally, Act Locally. If not enough is being done, give more. There are those who believe too much is done. If you don't want to live your values and give more, run for office and try to allocate money that isn't yours. The Left is very good at that particular skill.
