The difference between marrying someone of them same sex, and marrying your mother/father or your brother/sister is the damage to any offspring that you could have. Gay marriage brings no health defects to children because they cant have kids. Marrying your brother or sister should be illegal for the health of both partners and their children.
How is that not just as bigoted and hateful a remark as insulting someone over their sexual preference? Way to cede the moral high ground there, Sparky...
was meant to get his attention by turning the blatant prejudice of what he was saying back on him. sorry if it was over the line.
There are religions that allow gay marriage. To pretend that all religious people think the same reveals your own bias. Go to any VA hospital and then compare it to a private hospital. Conditions are worse, care is worse and it's more expensive. Yep, everyone is trying to impose "fundamentalist values" on you. It's pretty obvious you have no idea what "fundamentalist values" actually are. If you really want to have fundamentalist values put on you, keep retreating in the War on Terror. You'll get to learn all about Wahabbism up close and personal. Compare those "fundamentalist values" and the Christian ones you feel are being imposed upon you.
Yep, that's what I thought. Go visit and get back to me. Societies do need a value base, however. Like it our not, ours has been largely supplied by a Judeo-Christian belief system.
i'm not talking about anything but fundamentalist (biblical) christianity, since it's the main culprit in the gay prejudice problem in the US right now. you're describing a local problem that i don't see in oregon, and you're also off on an irrelevant tangent. nice subject-change dodge attempt. i'm talking specifically about the fight over gay marriage rights. if you want to talk about the evils of islamic fundamentalism, or other aspects of the christian fundamentalist agenda in the US such as creationism as science or overturning roe v wade feel free to start another thread.
I knew your backwards mind would think that I am the one that was wrong in that situation. If someone told gays that wearing a three piece suit pissed off straight people, Wearhouse For Men would be out of stock in five minutes. BTW, Archie Bunker is a freaking legend yo.
why don't you go visit sweden and check stuff like their crime rate, teen pregnancy rate, average education level completed and get back to me. most of our "value base" is derived from secular principals. it's the stuff that IS supplied by judeo-christianity that's causing the problem.
if i hadn't seen similar unenlightened posts of yours in other threads i'd guess you were just pulling my leg. you're such a caricature of a typical gay-prejudice homophobe it's like this is a joke.
It could be because I have a sister who is a lesbian that is out of her fucking mind. Just a thought. Unenlightened is such a nice way of saying that you are better than me. I don't know how to put this to you in a nice way so I will just say what I think. I don't care if people of the same sex have brains that are wired wrong and that this makes them want to fuck each other. I really truly and honestly don't. How many times can I say this? I don't care if they fuck watermelons. Or blenders. Whatever floats your boat. What I do care about is having to listen to their fake gay accents and their annoying over the top emotional gestures. I also think it funny that most gay men are prejudiced towards fat women on a level that Hitler would find offensive. The cool thing about flaming homosexuals is that they feel it is acceptable to tell a woman that she is too fat for certain clothing. That is actually something that needs to be said, but I digress. I dislike that my sister wants me to pretend that her girlfriend's artificially created daughter is equally as important to me as my brother's actual daughter. I shouldn't say pretend, because my sister wants me to BELIEVE that. Which is kinda funny because my sister should know that even if I did tell her that I believed that I would obviously be lying. My sister can't stand that my family won't celebrate a girl that isn't hers as part of their own family. They accept that girl, and treat her as well as I would expect but they don't go running around bragging about it. (fuckin rednexx) The last thing I will mention is something that makes people laugh when I tell them but isn't a joke. My sister wanted me to buy her "daughter" a birthday present. I asked her why I shouldn't just buy the neighborhood kids presents, as they are just as related to me as her "daughter" is. <----my sister when I said that.
it's the nicest way i can think of to say that your prejudice is badly outdated and damaging to modern society. that would make a good tear-jerker movie on lifetime. except you'd be the villain unfortunately.
Yeah, I damage modern society by doing my job. That and driving safely. Oh wait, I have manners in public. Plus, I open doors for little old ladies. (that is really barbaric of me huh?) I think that more than makes up for all the hate crimes I commit, like running over gays with my car. I know it sounds like that wouldn't be driving safely as I previously mentioned, but it is a matter of perspective. I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU FUCKING IDIOTS CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE BORN THIS WAY!!!! Tolerate me. Don't try and change me, it is too hard. In fact, it has been hard living life all these years NOT telling gays to get away from me. I think I will have to come out of the bigot closet and just act like I feel. It will be soooo enlightening. I will finally be free. Maybe I will get a big Swastika tattoo on my forehead. Then when I get fired from my job, I will sue for discrimination. While I am trying to work out who I really am as a person and why I have been so damaging to modern society by not asking anything from it other than to be left alone, I might have to work on my racist thoughts towards animals. My dog is a dumb little fucker, I just wanna kick him in his head. Maybe I will deport him back to Mexico, he is a filthy Chihuahua. As you may have noticed I was being SARCASTIC. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Now that I have tired of just playing this side of the issue, I want to mention something about All In The Family that I loved. One of my favorite Archie Bunker things was when a new black family moved in across the street. Archie was horrified. The whole thing was about how mad he was about another black guy creeping in on his territory. At the end, Archie found out the black guy was a police officer and INSTANTLY liked the guy. Awesome show and awesome way to make a point about hypocrisy. I have racist and homophobic thoughts all the time, yet unlike Archie Bunker I know that these things are wrong. I just believe that we often take things too far too fast. I have bad thoughts about myself too, I often wonder if there are people that don't. I guess there must be. However, I also like to push buttons when these discussions come up because those that feel enlightened don't seem to ever admit that anyone that disagrees with them could be a good person. Everyone wants to play these debates as if there are only good and evil at play. I think that is untrue. As I said somewhere before, I don't really care about gay marriage. I don't believe in marriage to be honest as I am not religious. My girlfriend and I will be together 8 years this January. I love her more than life itself. I would honestly kill someone to prevent her pain (well,except the pain I occasionally provide her via my fat mouth) I would find it fucked up if a gay partner couldn't visit a loved one in a hospital because they aren't "family" So, I don't want to be damaging to modern society.........I want to take part in coming up with logical solutions to our problems. Having heated demonstrations where people rip signs out of other's hands doesn't help anyone. It honestly makes everyone look like whining little idiots.
why? there was enough actual prejudice on display in this thread already. didn't need a caricature to push buttons. false. i'm sure everyone here is a good person who thinks they are doing the right thing, with the possible exception of your caricature : ) at least for secularists in these debates that's also generally false. most are pragmatic. obviously some fundamentalists have to think of these issues in terms of black & white because it's their mandate. however there's not much to be pragmatic about when it comes to gay marriage. if someone wants to make a case that gay marriage is actually socially detrimental i'd be happy to listen, but nobody is doing that. all i'm hearing is that either children have some sort of intrinsic "natural" right to be raised by a mother and father (demonstratably false), or "it's against my religious belief". there's a little more than that going on in this thread.
Uhhh, there is actually nothing of relevence to the modern world going on here in the slightest. If we are going to debate issues via the internet the world is on a faster course to hell than I ever imagined.
obviously nobody expects anything in the real world to actually be resolved through internet debates. they are more about education, and every little bit is potentially helpful even if it's just learning/clarifying other viewpoints.
hmm. so your pulling pascal's wager out of a hat in the "can we talk about religion" thread was probably also button pushing. clever.
Yep, Muslims are cool with gay marriage. It's just evil Christians. Ah, so you get to define the parameters of the discussion? If you don't see it, you're simply not looking closely enough. Head up to Pill Hill and check the quality of the VA Hospital compared to even OHSU. Problem solved. You were the one who referred to "fundamentalist values" being imposed on you, not me. It appears you're confusing yourself. As for gay marriage, I'm in favor of it, as has been stated on many places on this board. However, I will always battle idiocy, and you're the guy sticking your head out of the foxhole.
Thanks. I lived there for three years and visited there this Spring. What would you like to know? For the record, you don't need to steal when everyone is more or less in the same boat as you are--it's tough to find someone with a lot better shit than you have. In terms of education, you're only required to go to 9th grade, but almost everyone (80%+) attend gymnasium, which is like a three year HS. A lower percentage of Swedes graduate from university than do people in the US. As for pregnancy, abortion is no big deal in Sweden and girls get knocked up all the time. I don't really understand how crime rate and pregnancy have to do with standard of living. Honor your father and your mother? You shall not murder? You shall not commit adultery? You shall not steal? You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor? You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife? You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Those sound pretty good to me. And what values do you live by?
islamic prejudice isn't much of a factor in voting on state policy in the US, to state the stupidly obvious. no, but you seem to think i said the tradition of christian charity hasn't resulted in valuable contributions to society or something, and you keep arguing that it has. i'm not disputing that it has. marriage necessarily being defined as between 1 man and 1 women is a modern fundamentlist value, and its imposition on US society is the result of prejudice stemming from christian fundamentalism. if you are a christian and believe there's nothing wrong with gay marriage good for you, but obviously the majority of christians differ. and the reasoning behind their position inevitably breaks down to a matter of religious tradition rather than actual evidence that there's anything harmful about it. as far as the issue itself i'm not the one who is confused here. more like i insulted your egocentric faith or something and you're lashing out blindly with straw men.
