Now while I'll freely admit this is a pipedream, things may be falling into place and I believe a deal could be reached with the suns hypothetically that does make a lot of sense for each team. To outline some circumstances for Portland: We have a logjam, and many players who really do deserve playing time aren't getting any. This isn't just the young guys waiting their turn, but they're all young guys and don't have vets to learn from in front of them (for the most part). I think this was part of Sergio's frustration the last couple of days, not that he wasn't playing, but that Bayless is being grooomed behind him too and trying to murder the guy in practice. In addition to Sergio's limited time Frye and Batum's minutes will likely be out the window when Webster comes back. We have expiring young contracts, who we'll either trade, play a lot (and trade others), or lose for nothing this summer, sooner or later something will need to happen, and that's for sure. We have Raef's expiring big contract, which could provide major relief to a cheap team We can see how much our team responds to up-tempo play (and just motion in the half-court in general) when they believe they'll be rewarded for it, yet Blake does a poor job of this, and really his "off ball" contributions include merely sitting in the corner waiting to spot up (when does he grab a board, cut to the basket for a lay-in, or set a screen?). Sergio isn't the shooter to capitilize on this for 30 mpg, but definitely fills his role nicely at 15mpg, while Rudy is a huge catalyst to motion, he struggles somewhat w/o Sergio out there. While Brandon is a tremendous player who I want with the game on the line every time, he tries to do too much on his own, and his play-making abilities are limited to drives and kicks, I never see him hit the cutter (when he has the ball) and I don't see him move w/o the ball much at all. This isn't a knock on his selfishness, or an argument for Sergio, Rudy > Brandon, but to take his game to the next level, he needs to start getting some easy points and becoming a weapon w/o the ball. Last night I saw D-Wade cut backdoor multiple times, and even tonight I saw Lebron scoring some easy ones this way. In addition to scoring easy buckets, this is an essential way to help out our bigs. Brandon is our best player, I'm not saying he should be an off ball player (ala Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton) but I do think we should be taking advantage of our bigs, and to do this Brandon will need to learn to be a cutter like others did (Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, Parker, and Ginobli have). I outlined this more in a recent post: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=851412 I really think that a bigtime consolidation move could help us compete in the playoffs this year, but more importantly set the tone for our young guys, give the ones we're keeping for sure more of a chance to develop with experience around them, and offer our guys more playing time to grow, possibly creating a more amicable locker room. In addition I think it could help our offensive flow tremendously, and the development of Oden and Lamarcus. As far as Phoenix goes: Things aren't looking so hot down there. They look disjointed and confused, and their offense is mainly dumping it to shaq, who's holding up remarkably well 6 games into the season (who knows for how long). Nash is having a real hard time (I know only 10 games in) but things are getting testy. They're hitching themselves to someone on the brink of retirement at the expense of Amare and Nash. They may be interested in going full bore this direction and getting some young talent who fits that direction (half-court) while clearing cap space (their owner is cheap and big FA class to put next to Amare in 2010) in their forums they have threads on: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=850599 Nash looking out of synch http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=851639 the offense going primarily to Shaq and wondering if its the right time to trade Nash http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=851628 Here's my hypothetical trade: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~2015&teams=22~22~22~21~21~21~21~21&te=&cash= We send: Lafrentz, Frye, Outlaw, Bayless, and Blake They send: Nash, Diaw, Hill Realistically this does put us in championship contention, and Nash moves close to home, with a team built amicably to running a little more (Nate would need some chill pills though). Nash would really bolster our offensive flow, he CAN contribute off the ball with shooting ability and cuts to the hoop, he would do wonders for the development of our bigs (can you say Amare?), and he is overall a very high level player for us. Hill provides a stabilizing solid vet presence who's good on defense, a good shooter and really bolsters our depth, Batum learns from him for the rest of the year. And Diaw is hated in Phoenix for not being aggressive enough but what's new (next to Frye and Outlaw), we lose shooting with that swap but gain defense, passing, and rebounding. All of these guys would help our transition game WHILE being able to function in the half-court (unlike Barbosa). Realistically losing out on Travis, Bayless, and Outlaw is hard and a lot of potential, but we were probably going to have to give up one of Travis and Outlaw, and Bayless would've come at the minutes expense of Sergio anyways. This looks like a short-term move, but would pay long-term dividends as the winning tone was set, consistency was added, and as they expire (one by one) our guys step into larger roles. The only bummer is Diaw's contract, but it's not enormous, and we have Paul Allen. Nash/Sergio (limited) Roy/Fernandez Webster/Hill/Batum Aldridge/Diaw/Randolph/Diogu Oden/Pryzbilla (we would at least be national TV darlings) For the suns they save a lot of money, retool, arguably become better suited for the half-court game (especially with Frye playing off Amare and Shaq), and grab some great young prospects in Frye, Outlaw, and Bayless (2 home grown and fan favorites), while still clearing a ton of cap space, and they really don't look that bad this year either. Blake/Bayless/Dragic Bell/Barbosa Barnes/Outlaw Amare/Frye Shaq/Amare/Lopez not a bad team and a young core of Amare, Bayless, Lopez, Outlaw, Frye, and Barbosa is nothing to scoff at long-term.
I don't like the idea of trading Bayless. During the time he played in pre-season (and even in the public scrimmage) he looked to pass A LOT more and was effective. I'd rather bring in a vet PG to mentor Jerryd. This is why I'm firmly in the Jason Kidd to Portland bandwagon. Don't underestimate Jerryd's potential alongside Roy and Rudy. Plus, with Shaq owed $40 million in the next two years I don't see the Suns throwing in the towel just yet. Without a PG like Nash, the Suns become the Charlotte Bobcats.
Honestly, I have no desire to trade any future assets in an effort to "go for it" this year. The Lakers look like a steamroller, and with the talent they have, I don't think it is any kind of fluke. This is the wrong season to hope to contend...trading away useful players for the future to get a "win now" player, just to be beaten by the Lakers in the playoffs at best, is not my idea of a plan
I firmly believe it makes the players we keep better in the long run. Oden and Aldridge are 3X as dangerous with Nash able to hit them for easy buckets than Blake out there. With this move we're a top 10 defensive team for sure (assuming Oden is worth anything and the addition of Diaw), top 10 offensive team for sure (and more consistent), and definitely the best passing team in the NBA. The ball movement would be incredible. Why would we not be a title contender?
Yes he does, Nash makes Webster, Aldridge, Oden, and Rudy much better than they are now, and in the long run Roy (as he learns to cut), we would have incredible ball movement on the floor all the time. All three of those guys (Nash, Hill, Diaw) are among the best passers at their position in the game, Aldridge, Oden, and Rudy would each have at least three dunks a game. they are also all very high character guys who are unselfish (although Diaw has occasionaly been called lazy).
Nash at point guard would actually be a defensive downgrade. Blake is no great shakes, but Nash is even worse. And point guard is a key defensive position. No arguments there. Though Nate's slow-down style would take away some of Nash's value. We would, but only a second-tier contender, IMO, like New Orleans or Houston. The Lakers are head and shoulders above the league. Most statistical projections warned of a Lakers juggernaut this season and the first weeks of games have only supported that. If this were naturally a year the Blazers needed to go for it (Roy, Aldridge and Oden in their prime), I'd agree that Portland would need to upgrade as much as possible and take their chances against LA. But since our best players aren't in their prime, I don't see a need to try and accelerate the process in a year that may just be a Lakers walk-over season.
Uh, so we get Steve "2-time MVP" Blake at our position of greatest need, a guy to mentor Sergio to take over in 2 years, Grant Hill's Veteran Leadership (TM)...all for Steve Blake, Outlaw, and 3 guys who will get a combined total of zero minutes per game when Webster gets back? Uh, I don't care if Nash is a sieve defensively. How do you not do that?!?!
Actually PG's (most of the time) are not too big of scorers, and the Paul's, Williams', and Parkers' of the world A) go off on everyone B) would have Roy on them C) will have to shoot over us or settle for mid-range shots because they're not getting to the hoop against Oden or Pryz. I agree, but I don't think this is make or break. I guess the only cost we lose to me is the difference between Bayless and Sergio (long-term) and one of either Outlaw or Frye (we'd have to give up one anyways), I just think the dividends paid in the short term excitement and success of Nash, and long-term in the experience gained by other players and winning mentality more than makes up for that loss. I guess it depends on how good a person figures Bayless or Outlaw to be though. this has plenty for the future to me: 09/10 Nash/Sergio/Koponen Roy/Rudy/(our pick) Webster/Batum Aldridge/Diaw Oden/Pryz that's a great combination of speed, ballhandling, shooting, strength, length AND passing. I really think the sky would be the limit on that team (with Rudy, Batum, and Oden in their second years). It dissolves so pleasantly too with the contracts expiring year by year.
The reason point guard is a key defensive position, in my opinion, is because point guards key the offense. An inability to pressure the opposing point guard is a serious problem, because it allows that point guard to direct the offense with little difficulty. Challenging the opposing point guard forces them to take focus off directing the offense and instead place it on protecting the ball; it limits their vision and their passing lanes and it slows down the execution of the offense. If that point guard also happens to be a great scorer, it can be even worse. But failing to place sufficient pressure on opposing point guards is a bit like facing a Jason Kidd-led offense every night. Even if that point guard doesn't score a lot, he's going to have the opportunity to shred you with passing.
Who says the Suns are struggling this year? They've won 6 of their first 9 games. They're better than us. They beat us. Terry Porter is doing a fine job and they are still a contender this season.
I would do that deal. It makes us a contender for sure. I doubt the Suns would. Outlaw and Bayless are value -- and it is true that the Suns management cares about $$. But Nash is head and shoulders better than anyone coming back. iWatas
Agreed. If you're looking for a team that is spiraling down and is desperate, look more toward the Mavs.
Why trade anyone isn't Nash a FA this summer? If that's who we want wait and sign him this off season. To be honest I think that's their target.
The only concern I'd have with Nash is his longevity, he's had some back issues in the recent past and he's clearly on the downside of his career ... the question becomes how much does he have left in the tank at 34. My gut tells me that he's probably only got about a year or two of elite or near elite level play and I'm not so sure that coincides all that well with our team's title contention window. Also I'd like to go ahead and officially challenge the "He'd be able to mentor Sergio" hypothesis; where do people get this idea that older players are always looking out to groom their successor? Steve Nash would be wanting to play as much as possible and there would appear to be zero motivation for him to worry about Sergio's development. Nash would be nice, but he doesn't coincide with the championship window, so I say pass.
I like the idea but I do not want to get rid of Bayless. I like this trade better. http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4817128 Outlaw, Blake, Sergio, Ike and a draft pick (1st or 2nd round I don't care) for Nash. Makes us... Nash\Bayless (are you drooling yet?) Roy\Rudy (um, best backcourt 1st and 2nd unit, EVER?) Batum\Webster LMA\Frye\Randolph Joel\Oden --- Makes them... Blake\Sergio Barbosa\Bell Outlaw\Barnes Amare\Ike Shaq\Diaw They wouldn't do it though.
